Ongoing Mass Shootings Thread pt 2 - Page 45 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-16-2018, 10:48 AM   #881
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,515
Local Time: 12:38 AM
I find a lot to agree with in WideAwake’s posts.
__________________

Irvine511 is online now  
Old 02-16-2018, 12:03 PM   #882
Blue Crack Distributor
 
corianderstem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Seattle
Posts: 64,498
Local Time: 09:38 PM
Yeah. I'm told gun violence is down. I mean ... yay, I guess? That doesn't make me feel any better about 17 kids being gunned down and we remain stuck.

The comparisons often used bug me. "One guy tries to blow up a plane with his shoes and now we all have to take our shoes off." "Lettuce kills someone and we recall lettuce." Like it or not, the gun thing is literally an American right.

I think it's absurd and obscene that we can't even talk about changing that, but it is what it is. Like, it was written by the same people and the same time that slaves were 3/5ths of a person, and we eventually (too late) got around to changing that, but omg heavens no we can't go back and look at the second amendment.

And then like Nick has said in the past, let's say tomorrow a magic amendment was passed, no more guns. What happens to the gajillion guns already out there? Not even the illegal ones, but the ones purchased legally? Some people would be willing to bring them in, but many would not.

I guess not adding more guns is a good step, but the state of this country right now, I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say that I could see Really Bad Things happening.

I'm heartened by seeing the students involved clapping back at the political bullshit. Maybe they'll be the generation to figure it out, because they're the ones living through these high-profile, completely preventable tragedies.

(To say nothing of the other piece - guns aside, how do we fix a culture where guns are the answer? It always seems to be this toxic male bullshit. I guess I'll keep trying to topple the patriarchy.)

/ramble ramble ramble
__________________

corianderstem is offline  
Old 02-16-2018, 12:40 PM   #883
The Fly
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 296
Local Time: 09:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by corianderstem View Post
Yeah. I'm told gun violence is down. I mean ... yay, I guess? That doesn't make me feel any better about 17 kids being gunned down and we remain stuck.
I don't know that gun violence is down...just violent crimes/murder. I suppose that core number represents gun violence, too. And the drop is more than a tick...the point was that the US is not some place where we are dropping and ducking to avoid being killed every day like portrayed. It is actually the safest time in the nation's history.

And that is mutually exclusive to the discussion of gun violence. Because there is no point where you should go "OK...it's down. We're cool. We can stop here." And the type of violence, the mass shooting, is incredibly preventable with even mitigation around our fucked up notion of the 2nd Amendment preserving gun ownership.

They are two distinctly different points. And one does not excuse the other. And worse, yet...we now have a clear trend of kids who don't have a fucking clue that it can get better within arm's length of some kind of romanticized solution.

We can get better. But we can also lose momentum with reckless rhetoric about bullets wizzing past our heads, about feeling "unsafe" as a tourist in this nation unless the tourism board booked you on a tour of great gang spots. That's bullshit.

And has nothing to do with our need to stop this madness with guns.
Wide Awake n AZ is offline  
Old 02-16-2018, 12:41 PM   #884
Blue Crack Addict
 
DaveC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: nazi punks fuck off
Posts: 22,027
Local Time: 11:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by corianderstem View Post
I'm heartened by seeing the students involved clapping back at the political bullshit. Maybe they'll be the generation to figure it out, because they're the ones living through these high-profile, completely preventable tragedies.
same thing was said two decades ago after columbine about my generation...i'm not too hopeful, sadly. you're probably right that if there was a major attempt to reduce the number of guns in the country it would lead to some really bad shit, especially for the federal agents responsible for enforcement.
DaveC is online now  
Old 02-16-2018, 12:48 PM   #885
The Fly
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 296
Local Time: 09:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by corianderstem View Post
(To say nothing of the other piece - guns aside, how do we fix a culture where guns are the answer? It always seems to be this toxic male bullshit. I guess I'll keep trying to topple the patriarchy.)

/ramble ramble ramble
And this. I am a white male. And I am representative of the problem. No matter how much any one of us thinks we have beaten back that mentality I call the FFK of white teen males...everything is to be fucked, fought, or killed...it is there, latently. Like when a guy talks shit to you, or your wife/girlfriend/boyfriend/friend/etc, and even though the other person is like "let's just leave", you feel you HAVE to do something, or you leave and stew about it all night. Or just the cultural idea of the "last call" hookup...it can be mutual, but it is laden in the idea that a woman drunk is a woman to target. And so on. There are a lot of calls on us to get our shit together. That's nice...but unrealistic. The most righteous of us still have some of that FFK in us, some feeling that our dick defines us, some need to break shit (physically or metaphorically), no matter how much we push it down. It's cultural. Guns are cool, man...we all watched Rambo and Terminator and every blowshitup show we could. It was culture and condition. The A-Team shot 1000 times an episode...no blood. Clean, easy...goddamn.

Teen boys with guns and a never-ending loop of examples of how to end your problems AND get revenge.

We need to teach our boys different. Period. We can Band-Aid guys like me who really want to not have that in us. But it has to change in how we raise our kids.

Not an America thing. At all. Except for the guns.
Wide Awake n AZ is offline  
Old 02-16-2018, 12:50 PM   #886
The Fly
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 296
Local Time: 09:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveC View Post
same thing was said two decades ago after columbine about my generation...i'm not too hopeful, sadly. you're probably right that if there was a major attempt to reduce the number of guns in the country it would lead to some really bad shit, especially for the federal agents responsible for enforcement.
visuals help.

Scary, sad, gut-wrenching visuals.
Wide Awake n AZ is offline  
Old 02-16-2018, 08:25 PM   #887
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 20,725
Local Time: 10:38 PM
To further illustrate Wide Awake's point above, and to tie into Dave's comment about the reaction back during the days of Columbine, just saw this article:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/guns-park...205351647.html

I totally understand people wondering if things will ever change on this issue. I've felt that feeling many a time myself, and still wonder now.

But stories like this give me a little hope. Fight the good fight, guys .
Moonlit_Angel is online now  
Old 02-16-2018, 09:10 PM   #888
War Child
 
Mac_Fly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 529
Local Time: 12:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlit_Angel View Post

But stories like this give me a little hope. Fight the good fight, guys .
A little hope is the proper measure, when reading the comments following that article, offered up by the minions of illogical thought.
Mac_Fly is offline  
Old 02-16-2018, 09:13 PM   #889
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 20,725
Local Time: 10:38 PM
Heh, yeah, I purposefully avoided reading the comment section for that very reason. No need to get my blood pressure up any further.
Moonlit_Angel is online now  
Old 02-17-2018, 11:52 AM   #890
Self-righteous bullshitter
 
BoMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Soviet Canuckistan — Socialist paradise
Posts: 16,900
Local Time: 01:38 AM
How tone deaf is Trump’s new Twitter header photo? Are these people that stupid?
__________________

BoMac is offline  
Old 02-17-2018, 12:38 PM   #891
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,515
Local Time: 12:38 AM
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_3983.JPG
Views:	33
Size:	39.7 KB
ID:	11789
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 02-17-2018, 01:07 PM   #892
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 20,725
Local Time: 10:38 PM
Ohhhhh, that's a good cartoon.
Moonlit_Angel is online now  
Old 02-17-2018, 01:09 PM   #893
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Rum Tum Tugger is a Curious Cat...
Posts: 6,663
Local Time: 05:38 AM
It's hilarious. Can't stop laughing. SO funny. LOLZ.

The artist really captured what a kid killed by a gunshot at close range looks like.
Nick66 is offline  
Old 02-17-2018, 01:52 PM   #894
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 20,725
Local Time: 10:38 PM
I don't think it's funny. I just think it's a painfully accurate reminder of how shitty Trump's response to any serious issue is.

(Seriously, I heard clips from his speech about the shooting, and he just sounded so emotionless. It was so clear he was reading from his script the whole time. Such a stark contrast to Obama, who I remember being on the verge of tears when talking about Sandy Hook, and who had anger in his voice when addressing other mass shootings.)
Moonlit_Angel is online now  
Old 02-17-2018, 02:06 PM   #895
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Rum Tum Tugger is a Curious Cat...
Posts: 6,663
Local Time: 05:38 AM
There's no doubt Trump's response to this issue has been crap...he's all for saying "radical Islamic terrorism" but he won't say gun. Pathetic.

That said, I've been following this since it happened, and I haven't seen a comment from a single US politician on this issue that I can respect. Republicans thoughts are with the families, Democrats bleat "common sense gun control" and say vote for us.

And Obama's rebleating the "common sense gun control" lie was particularly disappointing. I mean, it's touching that President Obama was emotional when discussing the mass shootings that occurred while he was in office, and I agree he was genuinely moved. Unfortunately, he never put forth a serious policy proposal that would actually stop most the mass shootings that so distressed him.
Nick66 is offline  
Old 02-17-2018, 02:41 PM   #896
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: DC
Posts: 68,374
Local Time: 11:38 PM
https://everytown.org/throwthemout/
Headache in a Suitcase is offline  
Old 02-17-2018, 03:01 PM   #897
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Rum Tum Tugger is a Curious Cat...
Posts: 6,663
Local Time: 05:38 AM
Sadly, "Everytown for Gun Safety" is responsible for pushing the fake "18 School Shootings in 2018" story that was repeated and retweeted endlessly, including by news organisations that later had to retract it.

As I've said many times in this thread, a big part of the problem is that no one is being honest about the problem, or solutions. And the terms of the debate are largely based on lies.
Nick66 is offline  
Old 02-17-2018, 04:59 PM   #898
ONE
love, blood, life
 
digitize's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New York / Dallas / Austin
Posts: 14,077
Local Time: 10:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick66 View Post
Sadly, "Everytown for Gun Safety" is responsible for pushing the fake "18 School Shootings in 2018" story that was repeated and retweeted endlessly, including by news organisations that later had to retract it.

As I've said many times in this thread, a big part of the problem is that no one is being honest about the problem, or solutions. And the terms of the debate are largely based on lies.


Would you mind being more specific? Genuine question, not snark. What are the problems and solutions that politicians should be recognizing, in your eyes?

This is one issue where it feels to me like the Democrats have a lot more realism and honesty on the issue than Republicans, who are basically burying their heads in the sand. “Common sense gun control” may not go far enough in my mind (a few pages ago, I was pushing for something far more radical), but it certainly seems like a decent 80/20 place to start that would likely fix some of the problem.

Are you disputing that Democrats recognize the magnitude of the policy fix needed? Or are they not seeing some orthogonal issue (i.e. not gun control) altogether?
digitize is offline  
Old 02-17-2018, 05:47 PM   #899
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 28,170
Local Time: 12:38 AM
The killer grew up in a highly dysfunctional home environment. Thirty nine calls to the police over the last however many years. His Mom was a single parent, when she died last November from the flu four people showed up to her funeral. He was said to be distraught over that fact, and her death. Obviously plenty of people grow up in dysfunctional families(I did) and don't commit mass murder. I feel no sympathy for him, but his life circumstances still make me sad. It's also sad to me to think that perhaps even one person could have made a difference in his life to the extent that he wouldn't have become a mass murderer.

Common sense gun control to me means no regular citizen needs an AR 15 or similar weapon. And no troubled mentally ill person should have one, or any guns in my opinion. All these politicians take money from the NRA, even Democrats. I for one am sickened beyond words by endless "discussion" about gun control while kids and adults are slaughtered.

There also are obviously issues going on with some boys, and men, that need serious consideration and intervention. Teenage girls are not going on school shooting rampages. That's already been mentioned here, and it's not anti-male. Just a fact.
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 02-17-2018, 06:12 PM   #900
Blue Crack Addict
 
LuckyNumber7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 18,534
Local Time: 12:38 AM
It's an absolute fact. And it's a good starting point for addressing one aspect of it.
__________________

LuckyNumber7 is online now  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:38 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com
×