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Old 02-15-2018, 10:56 PM   #861
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Originally Posted by cobl04 View Post
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, but I'm fucking throwing them anyway. Fuck your sick, twisted, disgusting country.
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yup, 100% with cobbler on this one too.

the usa is the only country on earth that isn't a literal war zone where children are regularly being murdered en masse at random in their schools and nothing is being done to stop it. on this front, fuck the united states of america.
yeah, cobbler?
Here's the damn difference...

Dave C had the decency to curse us out on this particular issue; and is all you said about us on this issue.

Don't you dare blanketly call my country sick, twisted and disgusting.
Too effing many of us here have sweated a part our lives out trying make our/this country better! And still are.
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Old 02-15-2018, 11:35 PM   #862
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This discussion is fucking bullshit. Everyone's talking past each other on purpose because they're mad.
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Old 02-16-2018, 12:24 AM   #863
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yeah, cobbler?
Here's the damn difference...

Dave C had the decency to curse us out on this particular issue; and is all you said about us on this issue.

Don't you dare blanketly call my country sick, twisted and disgusting.
Too effing many of us here have sweated a part our lives out trying make our/this country better! And still are.


Lol. Like this is meant to make me feel guilt or some shit. Outta here.
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Old 02-16-2018, 12:45 AM   #864
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Lol. Like this is meant to make me feel guilt or some shit. Outta here.
Good riddance.
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Old 02-16-2018, 12:59 AM   #865
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There are U.S. citizens not on this board who feel that way, too, though . I'd feel the same level of anger even if I never hung out here.

I get wanting to defend one's home country, but seeing this nightmare scenario play out over and over and over and over and over again makes it really, REALLY hard for some of us to feel all that defensive or proud of our country.
This is not about defending America. Quite the contrary. It's about properly assessing the situation and putting constructive arguments forward.

I'm as pissed off as you are, if not more so. And I put my money - and my votes - where my mouth is on this topic. if you want to test me on this, I'll be happy to elaborate.

But that doesn't mean I will sit by while a pathetic little malcontended asshole like this cobbler d-bag spouts off because he's just an angry human being. His posts in general are sad and ridiculous. And this forum seems to enable this bullshit.
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Old 02-16-2018, 01:03 AM   #866
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Old 02-16-2018, 01:05 AM   #867
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Hell fuckin yeah babey !!
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Old 02-16-2018, 01:16 AM   #868
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Oh poor cobbler, says he is 'outta here' but he's really just lurking like the sad little boy he is. So young, I'm sure the rage in him is strong.
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Old 02-16-2018, 01:28 AM   #869
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Originally Posted by Iggy Fizz View Post
This is not about defending America. Quite the contrary. It's about properly assessing the situation and putting constructive arguments forward.

I'm as pissed off as you are, if not more so. And I put my money - and my votes - where my mouth is on this topic. if you want to test me on this, I'll be happy to elaborate.
Understandable, and a fair argument. I apologize for any misunderstanding of where you were coming from with your response (and I know that you do agree with the general anger over this latest tragedy, but I'm sorry if my comments somehow implied otherwise on that front, too). I think a lot of the posts here are more the general result of needing to vent our anger out somewhere more than anything else, but you are right that it would do well for everyone to take a breather and talk to each other on a more even level, especially considering this is an issue where we're all basically on the same side. I'll include myself in the whole "take a breather" thing, too.

All of that said...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy Fizz View Post
But that doesn't mean I will sit by while a pathetic little malcontended asshole like this cobbler d-bag spouts off because he's just an angry human being. His posts in general are sad and ridiculous. And this forum seems to enable this bullshit.
cobl has contributed a lot of decent commentary and discussion during his entire time on this board. I would hesitate to dismiss him entirely based off certain comments like the sort he made earlier.

I'll leave it to him to discuss his comments from earlier in further detail if he so wishes, as I don't want to put words in his mouth or anything of that sort. But even if one doesn't agree with the way he phrased things, I do feel there is a valid point within his post worth considering and hearing out.
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Old 02-16-2018, 01:38 AM   #870
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Hi Moonlit - thank you. but there is literally nothing you should apologize for. very classy posts all around and thank you for giving context for your point of view.

As for the bottom half, we'll agree to disagree.

Cheers.
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Old 02-16-2018, 07:06 AM   #871
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The country I live in has more mass killings than any other first world nation... by far. We're 5 years removed from someone walking into an elementary school and murdering 20 kindergartners and 7 teachers. That resulted in absolutely nothing being done. We actually elected someone to the highest office in the land who gives credence to a man who claims that atrocity was a hoax.

We're a few months removed from a man firing thousands of bullets into a concert with modifications that turned his weapon into a machine gun. Nothing has changed. They're "looking into it."

In the past year, as the right yells on about how it's more of a mental health issue, a right elected Congress and white house have stripped regulations preventing those with mental health issues from buying guns, and are doing everything in their power to strip their access to healthcare.

We've had a year of "resistance" by the left - marches in the streets over immigration, women's rights, general disgust at the administration. Where are the marches now? Where is the demand for action? All it is as throwing hands up and saying "welp, it's hard."

This country is, indeed, sick and twisted.
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Old 02-16-2018, 07:42 AM   #872
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Old 02-16-2018, 08:05 AM   #873
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Hell fuckin yeah babey !!
See! This is just what Putin wants! Interference divided and fighting over juvenile, attention seeking, inflammatory, anti-American, Trumpian rhetoric! The Soviets Russians love it when we call America sick & twisted!

We'll play into your hands no longer! Be gone, Russian bot!
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Old 02-16-2018, 08:15 AM   #874
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See! This is just what Putin wants! Interference divided and fighting over juvenile, attention seeking, inflammatory, anti-American, Trumpian rhetoric! The Soviets Russians love it when we call America sick & twisted!



We'll play into your hands no longer! Be gone, Russian bot!


Speaking of which ...

https://www.wired.com/story/pro-gun-...land-shooting/
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Old 02-16-2018, 08:17 AM   #875
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But that doesn't mean I will sit by while a pathetic little malcontended asshole like this cobbler d-bag spouts off because he's just an angry human being. His posts in general are sad and ridiculous. And this forum seems to enable this bullshit.
you are the only person in this whole thread who has repeatedly made personal attacks against another poster. attacking a country in the abstract isn't against forum rules, but directly calling someone names again and again sure is. if anyone is in the wrong here bud, it's you. get over yourself.
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Old 02-16-2018, 08:25 AM   #876
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Yep, I saw that. They're good at that sort of thing (what the Soviets called "Active Measures").

Ever hear the one about how AIDS was invented by the CIA as a weapon, and that's why Reagan didn't want to fight the disease? If you guessed that particular bit of disinformation was started by the KGB, to wipe out the gays or blacks (it varied) you'd be right. Operation Infektion. Millions of Americans bought into it at the time, and many still do. The one about the CIA assassinating Kennedy and MLK? KGB had a hand in that as well. George Bush's (I) secret trip to Iran to delay the release of the hostages to embarrass President Carter? Check.

Oh, there's more where that came from (Moscow). In the 60's, in an attempt to subvert US interests in Berlin the Soviets spread rumours that American politicians had secretly been in league with Nazis during WWII (the use of 'fascist' or 'Nazi' to describe political enemies is something the Soviets have promulgated since Stalin). The also tried to secretly subsidise Hubert Humphrey's campaign against rabid anti-communist Richard Nixon. In the 80's, they funnelled money to anti-war/anti-nuke groups in the US as part of the the infamous and ambitious "Reagan Means War" campaign (which they created) because they didn't want Reagan re-elected (for obvious reasons). Then there's the one, still controversial, about how Ted Kennedy sought the Soviets help in beating Reagan in '84. To say nothing of course about what they did in the last election.

What did all most of these things have in common? They were designed primarily to divide Americans and turn them agains each other. I'd say they hit the jackpot this time.

They're been doing this for decades. Only the technology has changed.
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Old 02-16-2018, 08:30 AM   #877
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you are the only person in this whole thread who has repeatedly made personal attacks against another poster. attacking a country in the abstract isn't against forum rules, but directly calling someone names again and again sure is. if anyone is in the wrong here bud, it's you. get over yourself.


Yup.

Iggy, someone having harsh words to say about your country doesn’t give you free license to sling personal insults their way. Keep it on topic and leave the personal attacks out of it.
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Old 02-16-2018, 10:23 AM   #878
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The actual violent crime rate in the US has plummeted since the 1980s. It is not a fucking warzone where you have to be afraid. That is patently false and silly and...math tells us different.

What we have here is a particular facet of the violence we still do have in this nation. A preventable facet. An ingrained culture that is starting to make itself seen where we are most vulnerable...where our children learn, and where children go through insane levels of shit trying to make the grade, both in an increasingly expensive university system that pits the top 10% of each high school in a death match for scholarship dollars until someone breaks, and the social grade, where kids can be fucking cruel. Teen suicide isn't a new thing. Teens deciding to take a few of their classmates out on the way is a new thing. And these awesome, complex, sometimes fucked up, hormonal creatures can ALL get their hands on guns. Maybe not like Florida, where 18 is a license to by semi-auto (so easy to convert) assault rifles. But guns are everywhere. Dad, mom, the neighbor, black market. It is cultural and almost celebrated by parts of our society.


So, spare me the "I went to Dallas and thought I was gonna die" rhetoric. Violent crime in this nation has precipitously dropped since my childhood. But gun violence? This is preventable. Or able to be mitigated. If our misunderstood or poorly-written 2nd Amendment guarantees the rights to own guns, our Supreme Court, which interprets that document, has made it clear that capacity limits, caliber limits, bullet limits, and waiting periods, as well as mental health checks are all within the rights provided by that amendment.

There is a real discussion going on now. It took a suburban school getting shot up with kids brave enough to film the horror and clap back on right wing pundits on social media. Social media manipulation cost the near left an election in this country. No one knows how to use it better than the kids. I really hope this is our Vietnam footage, because this has to stop.
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Old 02-16-2018, 10:36 AM   #879
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And to be clear, this is not the only place where gun violence is an issue. Not saying that at all. We also have an ingrained racial issue that has destroyed any chance at generational wealth for some minority groups, and poverty = violence, and guns help with the violence. The right wing clap back - CHICAGO - but they don't want to talk about why we have gang violence. I live in a border state and can tell you the lack of illegal immigration due to asinine and illegal sweeps and, quite frankly, a good Mexican economy, is killing housing starts in my area. The old school right wingers were businessmen and had no problem exploiting illegal labor. But those men and women who sneak across aren't looking to call attention to themselves. Violence is much more ingrained in the 2nd generation that has some sense of relative depravation, and is pissed. The illegals I have known bust their fucking ass. Sometimes, their kids see their ma and pa getting used and grow up with that anger. Mix that with no money, shit schools funded by...property tax, largely...and the lure of quick money (again...teenagers here), and it is a powder keg waiting to explode. That's one group of demonized minorities. Then there are the ones whose forefathers came on slave ships and have only recently seen even the law work in their favor (on paper...not necessarily enforced).

So there is that gun violence, too. Not as easy a fix. It is generational, fed by poverty and lack of access to education, and I am not sure what gun laws do there. Some good, as we saw in the assault rifle ban, but enforcement just leads to more incarceration.


but I do know that we had a school shot up by a guy being watched by everyone from the school to the FBI, and no one could do a fucking thing because his having an AR-15 and showing pics of all his guns to students and on social media...WAS LEGAL.
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Old 02-16-2018, 10:38 AM   #880
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Yup.

Iggy, someone having harsh words to say about your country doesn’t give you free license to sling personal insults their way. Keep it on topic and leave the personal attacks out of it.
fair, will do.
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