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Old 02-15-2018, 04:00 PM   #821
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next thing you know, we're going to be talking about toxic masculinity. and then it's just feminist marxists and black panthers from there.
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Old 02-15-2018, 04:07 PM   #822
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....and then it's dogs & cats sleeping together, mass hysteria!
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Old 02-15-2018, 04:17 PM   #823
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I don't want to take away from the gun discussion, but there is something else going on here which is terrifying - the drive for notoriety. Such crimes are massively reported/filmed/discussed. If you're cruel and insane and want notoriety, this seems to be the best way to achieve that.
Are these people waking up in the morning and deciding they really hate children, and the best thing to do is to kill children? I doubt it. I think they're thinking only about themselves, and their psychotic sense of self grandeur. Where they are the star, they are the protagonist, they are the hero/antihero/lead actor. And the rest of the world doesn't treat them that way. And they can't handle it.

A lot of aspects of the computer revolution 35 years ago have kinda pandered to these personality traits. Social media and gaming are the two I'm thinking of. That ability to surround yourself with what feels like a big, real 'reality' - all the while becoming more and more angry at the rest of the world which still treats you like a nothing.

Of course, guns the weapons causing the killing, and this is a gun thread, but I do wonder if there's something even deeper than that going on.
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Old 02-15-2018, 04:22 PM   #824
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Of course, guns the weapons causing the killing, and this is a gun thread, but I do wonder if there's something even deeper than that going on.

i'm confused. are you saying we should think about more than one thing at a time?
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Old 02-15-2018, 04:32 PM   #825
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I fully agree that's a factor, too, kiwilad, and your point about social media playing a role makes a lot of sense.

I think that notoriety and your comment about somebody needing to be "the hero" is what drives a lot of the "we need to just arm the good guys" people as well. The way they talk, they're treating this as though it were an action movie and they could ride in to save the day John Wayne-style.
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Old 02-15-2018, 04:36 PM   #826
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The way they talk, they're treating this as though it were an action movie and they could ride in to save the day John Wayne-style.

this is what white heterosexual American men do, though. they save the day with their guns.

haven't you ever been to the movies? they are all capable of taking down shooters with their concealed weapons.
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Old 02-15-2018, 04:41 PM   #827
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I don't want to take away from the gun discussion, but there is something else going on here which is terrifying - the drive for notoriety. Such crimes are massively reported/filmed/discussed. If you're cruel and insane and want notoriety, this seems to be the best way to achieve that.
Are these people waking up in the morning and deciding they really hate children, and the best thing to do is to kill children? I doubt it. I think they're thinking only about themselves, and their psychotic sense of self grandeur. Where they are the star, they are the protagonist, they are the hero/antihero/lead actor. And the rest of the world doesn't treat them that way. And they can't handle it.

A lot of aspects of the computer revolution 35 years ago have kinda pandered to these personality traits. Social media and gaming are the two I'm thinking of. That ability to surround yourself with what feels like a big, real 'reality' - all the while becoming more and more angry at the rest of the world which still treats you like a nothing.

Of course, guns the weapons causing the killing, and this is a gun thread, but I do wonder if there's something even deeper than that going on.
Agree completely. And of course there's something deeper going on. Almost everyone in America has access to guns, but most people don't murder other human beings with them.

Just be careful....someone will accuse you of using the "mental health" meme and trying to distract from talking about guns.

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this is what white heterosexual American men do, though. they save the day with their guns.

haven't you ever been to the movies? they are all capable of taking down shooters with their concealed weapons.
I don't know. Most movies these days they take down people with their super powers. Usually by slamming someone into a brick wall (and you'd be surprised how many different ways there are to do that!)
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Old 02-15-2018, 04:53 PM   #828
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If anything is going to change this mess, to push back on the NRA money, it is kids taking videos of a massacre, or live-tweeting it. And pushing back on vacuous talking heads who tell us "won't you think about the guns???" in sickening political posts about how people shouldn't "use" a tragedy to talk about how to stop, or at least limit, tragedies.


There are some amazing kids out there, and a few became the equivalent of the war journalists who provided us with our first images from Vietnam and started to sway the living room. There were a lot of heroes and one lunatic in that situation, aided and abetted by a bunch of lunatics in DC.
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Old 02-15-2018, 04:58 PM   #829
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as for notoriety...in some cases, yes. But this kid tried to get away.

Honestly...I have always been surprised it took as long as it did for this to become normal in high schools. Lots of marginalized/mentally ill kids get bullied and harassed, leading to suicide. There was always just one small step, with the availability of guns in this country, to killing others before dying.

This one is a bit different...the killer who didn't kill himself.
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Old 02-15-2018, 05:03 PM   #830
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I fully agree that's a factor, too, kiwilad, and your point about social media playing a role makes a lot of sense.

I think that notoriety and your comment about somebody needing to be "the hero" is what drives a lot of the "we need to just arm the good guys" people as well. The way they talk, they're treating this as though it were an action movie and they could ride in to save the day John Wayne-style.
That shit is so frustrating. Yeah...arm all the teachers. Then the kid tosses a smoke bomb in a room, some firecrackers, and starts shooting. A bunch of "heroes" pull out guns and shoot the room up, because even weekend warriors can't hit shit in the fog of "war". Now we have 5 guns, confusion, and SWAT coming on site to shoot anything that looks like a gunman.

A fucking Tarrantino fever dream.

The "hero"...so fucking stupid.
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Old 02-15-2018, 05:19 PM   #831
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People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, but I'm fucking throwing them anyway. Fuck your sick, twisted, disgusting country.
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Old 02-15-2018, 05:20 PM   #832
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I have a PDF about it, but it's too large to post here. But anyone interested can Google Extreme Risk Protection/Protective Order. Exists currently in CA, CT, and I believe two other states that I can't recall.

Other states are working on passing laws to allow these orders. There is a current bill in my state.
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Old 02-15-2018, 05:22 PM   #833
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That shit is so frustrating. Yeah...arm all the teachers. Then the kid tosses a smoke bomb in a room, some firecrackers, and starts shooting. A bunch of "heroes" pull out guns and shoot the room up, because even weekend warriors can't hit shit in the fog of "war". Now we have 5 guns, confusion, and SWAT coming on site to shoot anything that looks like a gunman.

A fucking Tarrantino fever dream.

The "hero"...so fucking stupid.
Exactly. The "let me get in there with my gun" people act like they're so sure of how they'd respond to something like this. They don't know shit and they need to stop.

The whole "arm the teachers" thing also pisses me off because it operates under the assumption that teachers couldn't pull something like this, that only students are capable of this kind of crime. I'd like to introduce those people to a professor named Amy Bishop:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Univer...ooting#Shooter

There's also the fact that, given the stories we hear in the news sometimes about teachers hooking up with students, that could cause trouble if the teacher owned a gun and the relationship ended badly. And even if the teacher's responsible with their gun...what happens if a student gets a hold of it somehow when they go on their spree? What then?

People really need to think about this stuff before they go blurting out these stupid "solutions" and "suggestions".
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Old 02-15-2018, 05:51 PM   #834
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Let’s take a moment to honor the sacrifice of our brave schoolchildren who lay down their lives to protect our right to bear arms.
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Old 02-15-2018, 05:59 PM   #835
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The Washington Post hired Megan McArdle this week, who famously said we should not ban guns, but should rather train children to gang rush shooters in schools. I shit you not.

Democracy dies in darkness.
McArdle would have to be on the level of Jamie fucking Kirchick as far as right-leaning anti-Trump pundits goes. Utterly reprehensible.

The New York Times is not much better, although their hiring and subsequent firing of Quinn Norton was hilarious.

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All indications are that this Cruz customer is a white nationalist who liked Trump, said he wanted to kill Antifa, and was extremely anti-Muslim. But MAGA Twitter found a photo of a young Hispanic-looking man in a Communist T-shirt and have convinced themselves a) it's him and b) he's an Antifa communist Muslim. I guess because his name is Cruz and MAGA chuds would have no earthly idea about the prevalence of white people in Spain.
You can smell the desperation on the MAGA chuds whenever a tragedy like this happens. That they'd rather do this than try to distance themselves from white supremacists says a lot.
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Old 02-15-2018, 06:59 PM   #836
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The New York Times is not much better, although their hiring and subsequent firing of Quinn Norton was hilarious.
On cue!

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Old 02-15-2018, 07:25 PM   #837
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People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, but I'm fucking throwing them anyway. Fuck your sick, twisted, disgusting country.
Fuck you.
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Old 02-15-2018, 07:32 PM   #838
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Fix your gun laws before you abuse me
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Old 02-15-2018, 07:37 PM   #839
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People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, but I'm fucking throwing them anyway. Fuck your sick, twisted, disgusting country.
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Fix your gun laws before you abuse me
Americans have one of the most powerful political lobbying organisations in the world fighting gun control. To say nothing of the Second Amendment.

What's your excuse for your behaviour?

You're way out of line coming into this thread dropping crap like that. You want to play that game? Get yourself sorted on your aboriginal problem, including incarcerating them at record rates, before you start criticising other countries. Start treating asylum seekers better, including the practice of arbitrary detention, while you're at it. Do something about the endemic violence against women you've got there, particularly indigenous women, much of which is a product of your culture.

Fix all that before you come back in this thread...deal? At least you finally caught up on marriage equality, so good on you, mate.

I don't live in the US either, but I'm certainly not going to kick them when they're down, especially when the country I do live in has its share of problems. And I understand that a lot of Americans are trying to do the right thing. People of good will in the US are trying to fight the good fight and change things. Take a cue from Bono on this subject. As it is, you're not helping.
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Old 02-15-2018, 07:38 PM   #840
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People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, but I'm fucking throwing them anyway. Fuck your sick, twisted, disgusting country.
I have zero argument against this.

Zero.
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