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Old 02-15-2018, 10:06 AM   #801
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Hey mate, I tried to respond to your PM, but your inbox is full. Do some housecleaning!
Sorry.... fixed.
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Old 02-15-2018, 11:41 AM   #802
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The Washington Post hired Megan McArdle this week, who famously said we should not ban guns, but should rather train children to gang rush shooters in schools. I shit you not.

Democracy dies in darkness.
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Old 02-15-2018, 01:18 PM   #803
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He could have knifed all those children to death, too. Or maybe he could have driven a truck full of explosives into the school and killed 17 children that way. He could have karate kicked them all to death as well. Stop blaming the guns!

Remember: people who want to kill 17 people will do so no matter what - whether by gun, knife, pen, sword, cannon, bayonet, musket, +2 battle axe, nunchucks, or golf club. We are powerless to stop these super-human monsters who are intent on taking human life.
Comment from Marco Rubio when discussing this latest shooting:

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Rubio rejected calls for gun control in an interview with Fox News after the Parkland shooting, saying it was the wrong time to discuss such efforts “because people don’t know how this happened.”

“I think it’s important to know all of [the facts] before you jump to conclusions that there’s some law we could have passed that could have prevented it,” he said. “There may be, but shouldn’t we at least know the facts? I think that we can always have that debate, but ... you should know the facts of that incident before you run out and prescribe some law you claim could have prevented it.”
https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-r...023055099.html

"People don't know how this happened." Um, yes, we do, Rubio. A guy with a shitton of warning signs somehow managed to get his hands on a gun he shouldn't have been allowed to obtain in the first place, and shot up a school. Seems pretty fucking obvious to me. Idiot.
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Old 02-15-2018, 01:26 PM   #804
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All indications are that this Cruz customer is a white nationalist who liked Trump, said he wanted to kill Antifa, and was extremely anti-Muslim. But MAGA Twitter found a photo of a young Hispanic-looking man in a Communist T-shirt and have convinced themselves a) it's him and b) he's an Antifa communist Muslim. I guess because his name is Cruz and MAGA chuds would have no earthly idea about the prevalence of white people in Spain.
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Old 02-15-2018, 01:54 PM   #805
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The Washington Post hired Megan McArdle this week, who famously said we should not ban guns, but should rather train children to gang rush shooters in schools. I shit you not.

Democracy dies in darkness.
If she said that, then it's pretty stupid.

You'll probably disagree with this in general, as someone far to my left - and that's okay. However, on a general note, I actually think that McArdle is a pretty good person to read if you're left-of-center, as a pretty intelligent right-of-center voice. I've been reading her on Bloomberg View for years for that reason. She's no GOP partisan - she comes out very negatively against Trump, and falls closer to Dems on some issues, such as climate change and a lot of social stuff. And a lot of her commentary is not so much anti-left wing economic policy as much as pointing out legitimate tradeoffs in left-right economic debates. Obviously, I disagree with her on plenty of things, and I think that some of what she says is not only wrong but clearly so (e.g. the aforementioned gun thing).

However, given the drivel that most of the American right-wing spits out nowadays, I think she's a pretty good voice for understanding generally-conservative arguments. Maybe you [general usage of the word "you"] don't want to do that, and that's okay. But, in my mind, the American right isn't going away any time soon, and I'd rather read someone like McArdle than, like, watch Fox News, in order to have an idea of conservative thought. And hopefully be challenged by it, even if I don't normally come to agree with it. Full disclosure that I consider myself moderate to center-left, but fall into the camp of never even considering voting for Republicans due to their general disconnect from reality.

To the new of the week, though: the Republicans' reaction to the shooting yesterday has been abhorrent, but no surprise there, right?

This is a difficult topic to break into, but I do have to wonder if the best solution is ideally something beyond what even mainstream Democrats have been proposing: generally heavily restricting gun purchases, even of normal guns, even to "normal" people. I think of yesterday: have we heard that this was any sort of semi-automatic device? I don't think we have, have we? And the guy might have been on the FBI's radar, but would he have legitimately failed a decent background check? The point is, I'm not sure if "background checks" and "restricting semi-automatic weapons" really goes far enough. It makes me wonder if a much more gun-free society, like most of the rest of the Western World, is really the solution here.

Of course, I say this as an upper-middle-class urban-dweller who is legitimately out-of-touch with a lot of the interests of people who use guns, so I suppose there are tradeoffs here. But yesterday gets me thinking in an interesting direction.
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Old 02-15-2018, 02:28 PM   #806
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This is a difficult topic to break into, but I do have to wonder if the best solution is ideally something beyond what even mainstream Democrats have been proposing: generally heavily restricting gun purchases, even of normal guns, even to "normal" people. I think of yesterday: have we heard that this was any sort of semi-automatic device? I don't think we have, have we? And the guy might have been on the FBI's radar, but would he have legitimately failed a decent background check? The point is, I'm not sure if "background checks" and "restricting semi-automatic weapons" really goes far enough. It makes me wonder if a much more gun-free society, like most of the rest of the Western World, is really the solution here.
That's the only real solution, outside of fixing the society, which isn't going to happen any time soon. And you're right, nothing that any mainstream pol has suggested goes nearly far enough. Not by a long shot. "Common sense gun control" is a lie and myth, and about as effective at stopping these kinds of things as thoughts & prayers or the NRA's phantom hero with a gun.
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Old 02-15-2018, 02:32 PM   #807
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Originally Posted by digitize View Post
This is a difficult topic to break into, but I do have to wonder if the best solution is ideally something beyond what even mainstream Democrats have been proposing: generally heavily restricting gun purchases, even of normal guns, even to "normal" people. I think of yesterday: have we heard that this was any sort of semi-automatic device? I don't think we have, have we? And the guy might have been on the FBI's radar, but would he have legitimately failed a decent background check? The point is, I'm not sure if "background checks" and "restricting semi-automatic weapons" really goes far enough. It makes me wonder if a much more gun-free society, like most of the rest of the Western World, is really the solution here.

Of course, I say this as an upper-middle-class urban-dweller who is legitimately out-of-touch with a lot of the interests of people who use guns, so I suppose there are tradeoffs here. But yesterday gets me thinking in an interesting direction.
Honestly, at this point, I would be totally fine with this. And I'm speaking as somebody who does live in an area where a lot of people own and buy guns for hunting and whatnot. I know people who own guns.

But yeah. Your description sounds like my dream world right now.

I know the Sandy Hook Promise organization has done a couple ads on this issue-I'm thinking there should be a massive, national-level PSA campaign on this topic in the style of the drunk driving and smoking PSAs we see on TV all the time. The victims and their families can share their stories and we can learn a bit more about all those who've died as a result of these tragedies (all of this being done with the victims and their loved ones' permission, obviously), we can share all the statistics in favor of gun control and debunk any attitudes people have about this topic that don't hold up to scrutiny ("these shootings happen because of lack of God in our society", "a good guy with a gun can stop a bad guy with a gun", etc.).

Not only would that continue to put a human face on this issue, but it'd also keep the topic in the national discussion on a regular basis, instead of just remain something that we only talk about for a brief time when another shooting happens. And if it happens to change some minds along the way and gets people more on board with some legit change on this issue as well, then fantastic.
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Old 02-15-2018, 02:36 PM   #808
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I’m glad we have such a strong leader who blames the school, parents, and community for this instead of the fact that it’s the guns and the rise of white supremacy groups since he’s taken over
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Old 02-15-2018, 03:03 PM   #809
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Our strong leader also rolled back a rule from the Obama administration that would have made it more difficult for the severely mentally ill to obtain firearms, and has also proposed slashing 625 million from federal mental health programs. And one TRILLION from Medicaid, one of the top sources of insurance for the mentally ill.
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Old 02-15-2018, 03:04 PM   #810
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upon learning that the shooter wears MAGA hats and was a member of a white supremacist group, Rebecca Solnit posted this on FB:

Quote:
Also, another lively discussion on Aruna d'Souza's post prompted me to say: I guess what strikes me over and over is the entitlement to take another person's (or many people's) life, and though I don't have answers to how that correlates to the majority of mass shooters being white men (and all but one or two being men), it raises questions I hope we keep discussing. It's also striking to me that in theory guns are available to all of us but in practice the people whose identities are most wrapped up in them and who use them this way are white men and how now there's a whole culture built around it. Or maybe there's an old culture that's now expanding and growing more vicious.....
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Old 02-15-2018, 03:09 PM   #811
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Just read the transcript of Trump's speech. Obviously someone convinced him to stick to the script this time. Still empty platitudes, though.
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Old 02-15-2018, 03:16 PM   #812
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I saw the pic of this murdering shitbird with the "communist" shirt, and it made me sad.

A good friend of mine has that same shirt, and I always love seeing him wear it because it makes me laugh. Communist party - one has a party hat on, one has a lampshade on his head, they're all drunk, ha ha.

Not anymore. Thanks for killing 17 kids AND also ruining that funny shirt.


Part of a white supremacist group. Cool. Also allegedly was violent towards his ex-girlfriend. Gee, that's so hard to believe.

Edit: I guess there's some skepticism of the "confirmed part of white supremacist group" bit, but whatever. 17 kids are still dead.
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Old 02-15-2018, 03:21 PM   #813
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If she said that, then it's pretty stupid.

You'll probably disagree with this in general, as someone far to my left - and that's okay. However, on a general note, I actually think that McArdle is a pretty good person to read if you're left-of-center, as a pretty intelligent right-of-center voice. I've been reading her on Bloomberg View for years for that reason. She's no GOP partisan - she comes out very negatively against Trump, and falls closer to Dems on some issues, such as climate change and a lot of social stuff. And a lot of her commentary is not so much anti-left wing economic policy as much as pointing out legitimate tradeoffs in left-right economic debates. Obviously, I disagree with her on plenty of things, and I think that some of what she says is not only wrong but clearly so (e.g. the aforementioned gun thing).

However, given the drivel that most of the American right-wing spits out nowadays, I think she's a pretty good voice for understanding generally-conservative arguments. Maybe you [general usage of the word "you"] don't want to do that, and that's okay. But, in my mind, the American right isn't going away any time soon, and I'd rather read someone like McArdle than, like, watch Fox News, in order to have an idea of conservative thought. And hopefully be challenged by it, even if I don't normally come to agree with it. Full disclosure that I consider myself moderate to center-left, but fall into the camp of never even considering voting for Republicans due to their general disconnect from reality.
I strongly urge you to read this, which I think is an excellent and full summary of McArdle.

https://www.pastemagazine.com/articl...me-to-the.html

There is one consistent through line in McArdle's work, and that is that she does not consider human lives to be of significant value. It's in her comments about school shootings, her vocal support for the Iraq War, her comments about Grenfell, everything. She is a true low life, and a much better illustration of the modern Republican Party than any commentary about rednecks or poor rural voters.
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Old 02-15-2018, 03:23 PM   #814
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I saw the pic of this murdering shitbird with the "communist" shirt, and it made me sad.

A good friend of mine has that same shirt, and I always love seeing him wear it because it makes me laugh. Communist party - one has a party hat on, one has a lampshade on his head, they're all drunk, ha ha.

Not anymore. Thanks for killing 17 kids AND also ruining that funny shirt.
As I said on the last page, that is not Nikolas Cruz wearing that shirt. That is the picture that InfoWars circulated yesterday before the dust settled to convince people it was Antifa-related. This tweet thread is a good summary of what InfoWars has done:

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Old 02-15-2018, 03:26 PM   #815
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Thank you. Obviously I'd only skimmed the previous page.
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Old 02-15-2018, 03:26 PM   #816
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It's been barely 24 hours, a lot has happened in a short amount of time.
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Old 02-15-2018, 03:48 PM   #817
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Love that quote you shared from Solnit, Irvine. Completely agree with her sentiments.
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Old 02-15-2018, 03:51 PM   #818
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Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
upon learning that the shooter wears MAGA hats and was a member of a white supremacist group, Rebecca Solnit posted this on FB:
Quote:
Also, another lively discussion on Aruna d'Souza's post prompted me to say: I guess what strikes me over and over is the entitlement to take another person's (or many people's) life, and though I don't have answers to how that correlates to the majority of mass shooters being white men (and all but one or two being men), it raises questions I hope we keep discussing. It's also striking to me that in theory guns are available to all of us but in practice the people whose identities are most wrapped up in them and who use them this way are white men and how now there's a whole culture built around it. Or maybe there's an old culture that's now expanding and growing more vicious.....
Yes, that's just what America need right now..."raising questions" about the correlation between gun violence and race. That's what Rebecca Solnit wants us to discuss. What could go wrong?

As if the discussion about guns alone wasn't incendiary enough. Gun and race. Yeah, I'm sure that would be a very productive discussion.
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Old 02-15-2018, 03:54 PM   #819
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Ongoing Mass Shootings Thread pt 2

Gender, too. Don’t forget that. And you’re right, there are the ONLY things we should be discussing. That’s clearly the intention of the post.

These are virtually all men, and many of them are men who feel they are entitled to murder people because women won’t fuck them. (ie, that Santa Barbara shooting from a couple years ago).
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Old 02-15-2018, 03:58 PM   #820
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I just think guns are hard enough without injecting race into it. As soon as you do that, everyone runs to their corners and everything gets shut down. Someone on the left points out that most mass shooters are white males, then righty starts going on about homicide by hand gun statistics, gang violence, "black on black crime" and eventually someone will say "CHICAGO!". That's a dead end conversation.

As far as gender goes, everyone already knows men do most of the stupid violent shit in this world. And too much of it is directed at women.
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