ongoing mass shootings thread

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Re: gloating trump

Honestly, this might be the first time he has tried to pull a stunt and not even his supporters are impressed.
 
The terror attack in Orlando wasn't the United States' only massacre over the weekend: Authorities in New Mexico say they believe a man named Juan David Villegas-Hernandez shot and killed his wife and their four daughters in the city of Roswell on Saturday.

From the AP:
A relative who went to check on the family late Saturday discovered the bodies, police spokesman Todd Wildermuth said. Officers responded and found all five had suffered gunshot wounds.

Villegas-Hernandez is still at large. The daughters were 14, 11, 7 and 3 years old.

Damned Islamic terror strikes again.

Wait, what? It's not Islamic terror? Could there possibly be two separate issues of guns and terrorism, both of which need to be dealt with, but one of which makes it easier for the other to happen?

Nah. Fuck that shit. Couldn't be.
 
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Damned Islamic terror strikes again.

Wait, what? It's not Islamic terror? Could there possibly be two separate issues of guns and terrorism, both of which need to be sealed with, but one of which makes it easier for the other to happen?

Nah. Fuck that shit. Couldn't be.
but dude.. if his wife and kids had guns they could've totally prevented this by shooting the husband!
 
Do I even want to know what Trump said, or shall I spare myself the heightened blood pressure?
 
And now Ted Cruz weighs in with his thoughts:



https://amp.businessinsider.com/ted-cruz-statement-orlando-shooting-2016-6







So, to recap: Democrats have to acknowledge this is the result of an evil ideology, but Republicans don't have to acknowledge the ease with which this creep was able to get guns in this country.



And Democrats have to acknowledge that Islam has a violent attitude towards gay people, but Republicans don't have to admit their own role in fostering anti-LGBT sentiment in this country at all (they're not advocating murder, no, but they're sure fighting hard to try and restrict their civil rights as much as they possibly can, and claiming LGBT people are a "threat" to "traditional Judeo-Christian values"!).



Mmkay. Sure. That's fair.



(I know, I know. Fuck Ted Cruz.)


:up:


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Wait, what? It's not Islamic terror? Could there possibly be two separate issues of guns and terrorism, both of which need to be sealed with, but one of which makes it easier for the other to happen?

I guess people's biases should not surprise me and yet I'm surprised at how one-sided so many people have been. It's either a hate crime with no terrorist angle or it's Muhammad who hates us. Like the two must be mutually exclusive.
 
I just want to know where people are getting the idea that Obama, or liberals/Democrats, haven't acknowledged that there are violent Muslims out there, or Muslim terrorists.extremists. Of course there are. Nobody has denied that for a second.

All we're saying is that we shouldn't hate or blame ALL Muslims for the actions of extremists. All we're saying is that MOST Muslims are quiet, peaceful people who are just as horrified by these events as anyone else, and do not agree with or support the more extreme and bigoted elements of their faith at all.

We can fight ISIS and their allies, and acknowledge the more horrific and violent elements of the Islamic faith, without hating on all Muslims, or trying to bar any of them from entering the U.S. (and doing that certainly won't stop the shooters who were born and raised here, after all, like, y'know, this particular guy was, but whatever) or things of that sort.

Seriously. It's not that hard a distinction to make.

Also, Axver, to answer your question: if I were you, I"d spare myself.
 
Do I even want to know what Trump said, or shall I spare myself the heightened blood pressure?

He wants us to congratulate him that he was right in wanting to ban muslims from entering the states, or something like that. Was in the morning paper so don't haven an English source.

So basically we should congratulate him on the death of 50 people to prove his moronic point... :crack:
 
He wants us to congratulate him that he was right in wanting to ban muslims from entering the states, or something like that. Was in the morning paper so don't haven an English source.

So basically we should congratulate him on the death of 50 people to prove his moronic point... :crack:
And since the attacker was born in the USA, a false moronic point to boot.
 
And since the attacker was born in the USA, a false moronic point to boot.

I heard him stumble around that this morning when asked and though he was incoherent as always I *think* his theory is that these Muslims coming in are bringing with them their jihad and introducing it to American-born Muslims? Presumably he's not heard of the internet?
 
ISIS is scary in that they target disenfranchised youth, and radicalize them. They use the trappings of Islam but it's more about death cult.

And yes, this is both an an act of Islamic terrorism and a hate crime.
Trump also said he wouldn't push for a ban on assault weapons because there are too many out there. But hey, deporting 11 million immigrants, no problem.

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Ok, this is an honest question. I admit I haven't read an abundance of articles on this event, but what I have read is that he apparently made a 911 call claiming ISIS and apparently he was on a watch list in the past, but has there been anything truly linking him to ISIS training or being involved in any ISIS organization?

Does claiming 'this is for ISIS' enough to define this as Islamic terrorism, or should there be organization of some kind in order to qualify this?
 
What I've read is that they are leaning towards ISIS sympathizer rather than being trained by them. That said, I'd still call it terrorism as ISIS is actively encouraging this kind of attack. My guess is they don't have any other options in the US at the moment.

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I believe, much like Al-Qaeda, ISIS urges terrorists to link attacks to their organisation.
Most likely this person has never been in contact with anyone from ISIS.
 
He doesn't get it or he gets it better than anybody understands. It's one or the other," Trump said of Obama on Fox & Friends Monday morning."We're led by a man who is a very -- look, we're led by a man that either is, is not tough, not smart, or he's got something else in mind. And the something else in mind, you know, people can't believe it. People cannot -- they cannot believe that President Obama is acting the ways he acts and can't even mention the words radical Islamic terrorism. There's something going on. It's inconceivable.

The Republican nominee today suggested that the sitting President of the United States is aligned with Islamic terrorism.

Let that soak in.
 
ISIS is scary in that they target disenfranchised youth, and radicalize them. They use the trappings of Islam but it's more about death cult.


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Same as any inner city gang in the '90s. Now with the Internet and Facebook people can target and recruit wherever they want. As there is much good that can be done with the Internet and social media I think it's just as dangerous as the wrong people with guns in their hands. Just look at all the crap people post and comment on in their Facebook feeds with their agendas. People argue with their own Facebook friends on a public forum. To me that's something that needs to be further looked into. Great quote from silence of the lambs "people covet what they see every day". Social media is changing human behavior and personally I think it's leaning toward the worst.


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I believe, much like Al-Qaeda, ISIS urges terrorists to link attacks to their organisation.
Most likely this person has never been in contact with anyone from ISIS.

Which is exactly why I believe we should be careful in labeling this as such, it gives them more power than they actually have.

I think labeling some angry disenfranchised lone actor, Muslim background or not, as Islamic terrorism is just as dangerous. Would we label a lone abortion clinic bomber who happens to attend a Catholic church, Radical Catholicism?
 
Which is exactly why I believe we should be careful in labeling this as such, it gives them more power than they actually have.

I think labeling some angry disenfranchised lone actor, Muslim background or not, as Islamic terrorism is just as dangerous. Would we label a lone abortion clinic bomber who happens to attend a Catholic church, Radical Catholicism?
We should.
 
Most likely this person has never been in contact with anyone from ISIS.

Apparently the 2nd time he was questioned/spoken to by the FBI is when he had some contact with an individual who had gone on to fight in Syria. The FBI concluded that this contact was limited/fairly meaningless and didn't investigate further. So he may have sort of peripherally known about actual people in real life who were involved.

I don't think that somebody has to be part of ISIS or al Qaeda for it to be what would generally be considered radical Islamist terrorism in any event.
 
I think labeling some angry disenfranchised lone actor, Muslim background or not, as Islamic terrorism is just as dangerous. Would we label a lone abortion clinic bomber who happens to attend a Catholic church, Radical Catholicism?

Sorry but it's not the same thing. This guy didn't just "happen to attend" a mosque. He was investigated by the FBI twice. First, he was reported by his coworkers for making death threats and referring to terrorist acts/jihad in the workplace. Second, he was associated, however loosely, with somebody who apparently went on to fight for ISIS in Syria. Third, his father runs a religious non-profit Afghan organization which the shooter also participated in, and that father has been publicly supportive of the Taliban.

Now that doesn't mean this shooter isn't insane or a lone wolf but the comparison you are drawing is not accurate at all.

If you talked about a right wing Christian who had been questioned by the FBI for prior violent statements regarding abortion clinics, who had consorted with abortion clinic bombers and who was part of a family organization which promoted groups that behaved in violent ways towards abortion providers, then sure. But somebody who merely attends church on Sundays has no bearing on this.
 
Sorry but it's not the same thing. This guy didn't just "happen to attend" a mosque. He was investigated by the FBI twice. First, he was reported by his coworkers for making death threats and referring to terrorist acts/jihad in the workplace. Second, he was associated, however loosely, with somebody who apparently went on to fight for ISIS in Syria. Third, his father runs a religious non-profit Afghan organization which the shooter also participated in, and that father has been publicly supportive of the Taliban.

Now that doesn't mean this shooter isn't insane or a lone wolf but the comparison you are drawing is not accurate at all.

If you talked about a right wing Christian who had been questioned by the FBI for prior violent statements regarding abortion clinics, who had consorted with abortion clinic bombers and who was part of a family organization which promoted groups that behaved in violent ways towards abortion providers, then sure. But somebody who merely attends church on Sundays has no bearing on this.

I hadn't heard some of the other background on him yet and I agree that the comparison wasn't apples to apples.
 
*Reads the Trump quote that Headache shared*

Holy crap, he really needs to shut his trap.

Which is exactly why I believe we should be careful in labeling this as such, it gives them more power than they actually have.

I've always wondered if that's precisely at least part of the reason why Obama's been careful with his language when referring to ISIS and sympathizers of that sort over the years. Not because he doesn't think it is terrorism, but because he knows how loaded words can be, and is aware that there's clearly far too many people who can't tell the difference between your average Muslim and a terrorist/terrorist sympathizer, and so on, and so he wants to try and avoid fanning the flames as much as possible.

Trump also said he wouldn't push for a ban on assault weapons because there are too many out there. But hey, deporting 11 million immigrants, no problem.

As that tweet a few pages ago that someone shared so aptly noted, conservatives/Republicans believe we can ban anything in the world and it'll magically solve our problems.

Except, of course, guns.
 
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