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Old 06-13-2016, 11:18 AM   #861
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I believe, much like Al-Qaeda, ISIS urges terrorists to link attacks to their organisation.
Most likely this person has never been in contact with anyone from ISIS.
Which is exactly why I believe we should be careful in labeling this as such, it gives them more power than they actually have.

I think labeling some angry disenfranchised lone actor, Muslim background or not, as Islamic terrorism is just as dangerous. Would we label a lone abortion clinic bomber who happens to attend a Catholic church, Radical Catholicism?
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Old 06-13-2016, 11:54 AM   #862
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Which is exactly why I believe we should be careful in labeling this as such, it gives them more power than they actually have.

I think labeling some angry disenfranchised lone actor, Muslim background or not, as Islamic terrorism is just as dangerous. Would we label a lone abortion clinic bomber who happens to attend a Catholic church, Radical Catholicism?
We should.
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Old 06-13-2016, 11:56 AM   #863
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We should.
We should be careful labeling the lone actor or we should label the bomber "radical Catholicism"?
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Old 06-13-2016, 12:53 PM   #864
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Most likely this person has never been in contact with anyone from ISIS.
Apparently the 2nd time he was questioned/spoken to by the FBI is when he had some contact with an individual who had gone on to fight in Syria. The FBI concluded that this contact was limited/fairly meaningless and didn't investigate further. So he may have sort of peripherally known about actual people in real life who were involved.

I don't think that somebody has to be part of ISIS or al Qaeda for it to be what would generally be considered radical Islamist terrorism in any event.
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Old 06-13-2016, 12:57 PM   #865
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I think labeling some angry disenfranchised lone actor, Muslim background or not, as Islamic terrorism is just as dangerous. Would we label a lone abortion clinic bomber who happens to attend a Catholic church, Radical Catholicism?
Sorry but it's not the same thing. This guy didn't just "happen to attend" a mosque. He was investigated by the FBI twice. First, he was reported by his coworkers for making death threats and referring to terrorist acts/jihad in the workplace. Second, he was associated, however loosely, with somebody who apparently went on to fight for ISIS in Syria. Third, his father runs a religious non-profit Afghan organization which the shooter also participated in, and that father has been publicly supportive of the Taliban.

Now that doesn't mean this shooter isn't insane or a lone wolf but the comparison you are drawing is not accurate at all.

If you talked about a right wing Christian who had been questioned by the FBI for prior violent statements regarding abortion clinics, who had consorted with abortion clinic bombers and who was part of a family organization which promoted groups that behaved in violent ways towards abortion providers, then sure. But somebody who merely attends church on Sundays has no bearing on this.
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Old 06-13-2016, 01:05 PM   #866
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This is all just so ridiculous.

It's Islamic terrorism.

No it's guns.

No it's mental illness.

It's all of the above for christ's sake
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Old 06-13-2016, 01:15 PM   #867
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This is all just so ridiculous.

It's Islamic terrorism.

No it's guns.

No it's mental illness.

It's all of the above for christ's sake
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Old 06-13-2016, 01:28 PM   #868
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Sorry but it's not the same thing. This guy didn't just "happen to attend" a mosque. He was investigated by the FBI twice. First, he was reported by his coworkers for making death threats and referring to terrorist acts/jihad in the workplace. Second, he was associated, however loosely, with somebody who apparently went on to fight for ISIS in Syria. Third, his father runs a religious non-profit Afghan organization which the shooter also participated in, and that father has been publicly supportive of the Taliban.

Now that doesn't mean this shooter isn't insane or a lone wolf but the comparison you are drawing is not accurate at all.

If you talked about a right wing Christian who had been questioned by the FBI for prior violent statements regarding abortion clinics, who had consorted with abortion clinic bombers and who was part of a family organization which promoted groups that behaved in violent ways towards abortion providers, then sure. But somebody who merely attends church on Sundays has no bearing on this.
I hadn't heard some of the other background on him yet and I agree that the comparison wasn't apples to apples.
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Old 06-13-2016, 02:18 PM   #869
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*Reads the Trump quote that Headache shared*

Holy crap, he really needs to shut his trap.

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Which is exactly why I believe we should be careful in labeling this as such, it gives them more power than they actually have.
I've always wondered if that's precisely at least part of the reason why Obama's been careful with his language when referring to ISIS and sympathizers of that sort over the years. Not because he doesn't think it is terrorism, but because he knows how loaded words can be, and is aware that there's clearly far too many people who can't tell the difference between your average Muslim and a terrorist/terrorist sympathizer, and so on, and so he wants to try and avoid fanning the flames as much as possible.

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Originally Posted by trojanchick99 View Post
Trump also said he wouldn't push for a ban on assault weapons because there are too many out there. But hey, deporting 11 million immigrants, no problem.
As that tweet a few pages ago that someone shared so aptly noted, conservatives/Republicans believe we can ban anything in the world and it'll magically solve our problems.

Except, of course, guns.
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Old 06-13-2016, 02:30 PM   #870
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Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase View Post
This is all just so ridiculous.

It's Islamic terrorism.

No it's guns.

No it's mental illness.

It's all of the above for christ's sake


it's also anti-gay hate.
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Old 06-13-2016, 02:41 PM   #871
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it's also anti-gay hate.
Absolutely
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Old 06-13-2016, 02:56 PM   #872
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excuse me....




STFU, Trump!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!





There... I feel better now.
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Old 06-13-2016, 03:11 PM   #873
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excuse me....




STFU, Trump!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!





There... I feel better now.
Omg... I hadn't even heard yet that that Trump is insinuating that President Obama is possibility linked to Islamic terrorists!???!?

I was just hearing the part of his latest speech stating again banning all Muslims bs.

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Old 06-13-2016, 03:14 PM   #874
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it's also anti-gay hate.

Yeah is that being as overlooked and disregarded as it seems? I've gotten literally all my news regarding this from a super pro gay echo chamber I've created for myself online (which to be honest is where I get probably 75% of news because if I have to wade through biases with any source, I might as well settle in where I can remind myself that not all the people are the same Trump supporting asshats I work with), and then came in here and read basically what amounts to a slight step up from the comments sections on articles. So what I'm seeing has all turned into hashtags and pictures at vigils, rather than this game of "chose an agenda to shout about."
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Old 06-13-2016, 03:24 PM   #875
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it's also anti-gay hate.
Which is pretty much covered by mental illness I'd say.
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Old 06-13-2016, 03:26 PM   #876
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The way the Right wing has been handling this shooting is pitiful. The LGBT community has been fighting for its rights against the religious right for decades. Asshats like Ted Cruz have advocated for anti-gay laws under the guise of "religious freedom" and we are surprised that a possible religious extremist targeted the LGBT community?

This was a hate crime.

I won't go into Trump's remarks today because there isn't enough invective invented for me to accurately portray my feelings. But suffice it to say, I am afraid for Muslim Americans.
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Old 06-13-2016, 03:26 PM   #877
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The way the Right wing has been handling this shooting is pitiful. The LGBT community has been fighting for its rights against the religious right for decades. Asshats like Ted Cruz have advocated for anti-gay laws under the guise of "religious freedom" and we are surprised that a possible religious extremist targeted the LGBT community?

This was a hate crime.

I won't go into Trump's remarks today because there isn't enough invective invented for me to accurately portray my feelings. But suffice it to say, I am afraid for Muslim Americans.
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Old 06-13-2016, 03:36 PM   #878
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Well here in NYC definately on public radio (both WNYC local public, and NPR national public radio for our international posters) which what I listen to 80+% of the time...

the anti-gay aspect is well pointed out.

And now some one added... Besides being Pride month, it's also Immigrants month. A lot of the Pulse club goers are/were young men of color. That night was "Latin Night". So possibly another aspect.

Yes, it could all of these aspects.

Back to the anti-gay hate aspect

Just heard a young man who is a regular Pulse club goer.... this is a very close , if not exact quote:
At Pulse... " I learned how to be a gay man"... "I learned to love myself" .


So horrific, Strength to all affected!
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Old 06-13-2016, 03:36 PM   #879
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How can Trump fucking GLOAT after something like this?
Because he's a fucking garbage person.
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Old 06-13-2016, 03:43 PM   #880
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Amen, Moonlit, tc99, & cori.
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