ongoing mass shootings thread

[Moonlit_Angel]

Senate Republicans voted against barring suspected terrorists, felons and the mentally ill from getting guns on Thursday afternoon, parroting National Rifle Association arguments that doing so would strip some innocent people of their constitutional rights to gun access

I do NOT get this argument. At all. If you are a responsible, law-abiding gun owner, you shouldn't have to worry about your gun being taken away from you. I don't get how they think innocent people will be somehow punished with these restrictions.

Also, considering the Bush administration created the Patriot Act, I got a REALLY good laugh out of the Republicans claiming this bill would be somehow "un-American" and a means to take away our constitutional rights. Uh-huh.

Ergh. Fuck these idiots.

[Oregoropa]

Originally Posted by Diemen

Yeah, missed the point. Offering your thoughts and prayers is all well and fine, but if you're in a position of power that gives you the opportunity to fix things, and you either refuse to even entertain the notion or actively block attempts to do so, then your thoughts and prayers are worse than meaningless.

Exactly. And Obama IS actually wanting to do something to solve this problem. He isn't just spouting rhetoric, he wants to tackle this.

But when the Republicans refuse to even acknowledge any solution other than "MORE GUNS!" and continue kissing up to the NRA lobbyists, that kind of makes it harder for any attempts Obama makes to try and deal with this to get very far.

I have to read into the Senate bill that got blocked today before rendering an opinion on it from my viewpoint. Every bill reads like a book so I have no idea what's in it at the moment and what the sticking points may have been for the GOP in the fine print.

As to "Thoughts and prayers". I was coming at it from the perspective that they were hitting the GOP Theists pretty hard, when "T&P" was a prevailing sentiment to spread on Social Media post-Paris. Just a comparative reply that Obama was using the phrase also.

That being said I, after Paris this board has been ahead of the media curve in talking about keeping guns out of terrorist hands through sales stateside. Yes, their needs to be a fix with regards to that within the bill. Just gotta figure where they can bridge the divide and satisfy both parties.

[Oregoropa]

Originally Posted by Moonlit_Angel

Also, considering the Bush administration created the Patriot Act.

The Act passed the Senate 98-1

[Moonlit_Angel]

The administration as a whole heavily supported it. Republicans weren't exactly eager to get rid of it.

And considering Republicans' track record on civil rights issues (gay marriage and the like), you'll pardon me if things like that only add to my skepticism about their "concern" for people's rights in general.

[Oregoropa]

Originally Posted by Moonlit_Angel

The administration as a whole heavily supported it. Republicans weren't exactly eager to get rid of it.

And considering Republicans' track record on civil rights issues (gay marriage and the like), you'll pardon me if things like that only add to my skepticism about their "concern" for people's rights in general.

They did support it and so did every Democratic senator except 1. That was the point of my reply.

We can knock Bush all we want, but at least he went to congress to get approval for military action against Afghanistan and Iraq. The separation of powers working as it should. In retrospect I'll say Iraq was a mistake given the course of events leading from 03 to the current day.

Sadly, the Middle East seems to favor having a strong dictator to hold the country together. When there is a power vacuum it goes to shit, where elements like ISIS thrive IE Libya, Iraq, Syria

[Moonlit_Angel]

I know that. But at least the Democrats generally wised up and regretted their decision to vote for such legislation. Haven't heard much in the way of regret from a lot of Republicans on that issue.

My main point is that the Republicans' concern for the issue of rights seems to fluctuate depending on the issue. They're trying to couch this gun control issue as a "rights" thing when the truth is that nobody is threatening to take away law-abiding citizens' right to own a gun. Gun control =/= eroding constitutional rights, but they keep insisting on framing their side of the argument like that anyway, and it's part of why we can't get anything done.

(Mind, there is also the fact that people are badly misinterpreting the Second Amendment, but since the chances of us ever settling that aspect of the debate are slim to none, well...)

[BoMac]

http://www.betootaadvocate.com/uncat...ontrol-regime/

[PhilsFan]

Originally Posted by Oregoropa

As to "Thoughts and prayers". I was coming at it from the perspective that they were hitting the GOP Theists pretty hard, when "T&P" was a prevailing sentiment to spread on Social Media post-Paris. Just a comparative reply that Obama was using the phrase also.

Yeah, but you knew that the point wasn't that "thoughts and prayers" is wrong, it was that "thoughts and prayers" in lieu of action is wrong. So what's the point of bringing up Obama's quote?

[Oregoropa]

Originally Posted by PhilsFan

Yeah, but you knew that the point wasn't that "thoughts and prayers" is wrong, it was that "thoughts and prayers" in lieu of action is wrong. So what's the point of bringing up Obama's quote?

As I said I was coming at from reading the front page of the paper and thinking . . . when did prayer become a micro aggression? The danger was still on-going and the blood not dry when some of those tweets were made . . . What else are they going to say? The newspaper headline was a quick pivot to political posturing, demanding action. As I said before it shows an Anti-Christian Bigotry against the Republican candidates, thus I highlighted that Obama said it too. Perhaps not realizing that the forum chatter had already moved on to the gist of the article that legislative action was needed. Not that you guys really care about the GOP candidates.

[PhilsFan]

lmao @ anti-Christian bigotry. Give me a break. Not bothering with that nonsense.

What else were they going to say? Well, the democratic presidential candidates all said they wanted meaningful gun legislation. That would be a start. And, you know, doing something else afterwards. You cite the blood not being dry, as if we just didn't have enough time. Have these people done anything before? There are MANY example of them doing nothing but offering thoughts and prayers and then refusing to present legislation, voting down the bills that are proposed, and continuing to accept NRA donations. Which is kind of the point: we didn't need to wait to give them time for more thoughtful, productive responses. They've had plenty of chances and have failed at every turn. So your point rings very hollow.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by PhilsFan

Yeah, but you knew that the point wasn't that "thoughts and prayers" is wrong, it was that "thoughts and prayers" in lieu of action is wrong. So what's the point of bringing up Obama's quote?

It's the same point as when people bring up Chicago's gun problem after every mass shooting.

[Diemen]

Originally Posted by Oregoropa

As I said before it shows an Anti-Christian Bigotry against the Republican candidates,

Anti-Christian bigotry? It doesn't surprise me if that's how it's being spun in right wing media, but come on. The point is clearly that it's a meaningless gesture from those in power if they don't take any steps to actually do something about the problem.

Frankly, the Republican candidates themselves have done a bang up job of sullying the image of Christians through their own actions (and inactions). Pro-torture, anti-immigrant/refugee, fomenting fear and xenophobia, anti-poor economic and social policies...

[david]

Very saddened to hear that one of the confirmed staff losses from yesterday's senseless tragedy at my old job at Inland Regional Center was Daniel Kaufman. Daniel worked with IRC clients, these are individuals with developmental disabilities, and trained them and oversaw their involvement in the Coffee Shop program that was housed in the events building that I worked in. Daniel was a kind and patient man and I enjoyed the chats I was able to have with him when I'd go downstairs and get myself a snack. All IRC staff that visited the shop would interact with him and his crew from Coffee N' More each time and he was very well liked. He will be missed.


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[Vlad n U 2]

Originally Posted by Oregoropa

He said not that far, but follow the Israeli model of bulldozing suicide bombers homes and put their families on the streets.

Oh, they do that anyway, supposed terrorist or not.

[BVS]

Originally Posted by Oregoropa

As I said I was coming at from reading the front page of the paper and thinking . . . when did prayer become a micro aggression? The danger was still on-going and the blood not dry when some of those tweets were made . . . What else are they going to say? The newspaper headline was a quick pivot to political posturing, demanding action. As I said before it shows an Anti-Christian Bigotry against the Republican candidates, thus I highlighted that Obama said it too. Perhaps not realizing that the forum chatter had already moved on to the gist of the article that legislative action was needed. Not that you guys really care about the GOP candidates.

Oh man :facepalm: you should lay off the Allen West memes, no logical thinking person would read this headline like this. Avoid the Fox spin.

This playing victim bs is just painful to read.


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[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by david

Very saddened to hear that one of the confirmed staff losses from yesterday's senseless tragedy at my old job at Inland Regional Center was Daniel Kaufman. Daniel worked with IRC clients, these are individuals with developmental disabilities, and trained them and oversaw their involvement in the Coffee Shop program that was housed in the events building that I worked in. Daniel was a kind and patient man and I enjoyed the chats I was able to have with him when I'd go downstairs and get myself a snack. All IRC staff that visited the shop would interact with him and his crew from Coffee N' More each time and he was very well liked. He will be missed.


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I am so very sorry for your loss. How awful.

[YBORCITY]

Originally Posted by Oregoropa

President Obama today

"Yesterday, a tragedy occurred in San Bernardino, and as I said in the immediate aftermath, our first order of business is to send our thoughts and prayers to the families of those who have been killed and to pray for a speedy recovery for those who were injured during this terrible attack."

They should have this "racked up" on a video loop and ready to run at any second..... oh by the way

 

fuck you and your empty thoughts and prayers

[YBORCITY]

Originally Posted by david

Very saddened to hear that one of the confirmed staff losses from yesterday's senseless tragedy at my old job at Inland Regional Center was Daniel Kaufman. Daniel worked with IRC clients, these are individuals with developmental disabilities, and trained them and oversaw their involvement in the Coffee Shop program that was housed in the events building that I worked in. Daniel was a kind and patient man and I enjoyed the chats I was able to have with him when I'd go downstairs and get myself a snack. All IRC staff that visited the shop would interact with him and his crew from Coffee N' More each time and he was very well liked. He will be missed.


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So sorry man..... it's senseless and for me that's the hardest thing to get over.

[Diemen]

Originally Posted by YBORCITY

They should have this "racked up" on a video loop and ready to run at any second..... oh by the way

 

fuck you and your empty thoughts and prayers

Are you saying that to Obama? You do realize he's been pushing for action on gun control for... oh, I don't know, his entire presidency?

He's not the one holding back action.

[PhilsFan]

Originally Posted by david

Very saddened to hear that one of the confirmed staff losses from yesterday's senseless tragedy at my old job at Inland Regional Center was Daniel Kaufman. Daniel worked with IRC clients, these are individuals with developmental disabilities, and trained them and oversaw their involvement in the Coffee Shop program that was housed in the events building that I worked in. Daniel was a kind and patient man and I enjoyed the chats I was able to have with him when I'd go downstairs and get myself a snack. All IRC staff that visited the shop would interact with him and his crew from Coffee N' More each time and he was very well liked. He will be missed.

So sorry to hear that.