ongoing mass shootings thread

[LemonMelon]

Hell, I could transcribe every word of Obama's statement. Please watch it. He's incredibly upset and repeats the consensus in this thread.

Will anything be done? No, probably not. But it's great to hear our outcry repeated by Obama more or less word-for-word.

__________________

[Moonlit_Angel]

My mom said that he stated that this was the fifteenth time he had to give a speech on this sort of tragedy since he's been president.

Fifteenth. Since he's been president. Since 2009.

How is it people don't see anything wrong with this picture again?

[bono_212]

I just want to cry, I feel so defeated right now.

[Axver]

Originally Posted by YBORCITY

Just awful....I wonder what the rest of the world thinks of the US and this issue?

Simple confusion.

Nobody in Australia can understand why the US has such a fetish for its insane absence of gun control policy. Every time one of these shootings happens, people here will turn to each other and say "after Port Arthur in 1996, we implemented stricter gun control laws. Guess what happened? No more mass shootings."

Same in New Zealand, just replace Port Arthur 1996 with Aramoana 1990.

America, wake the fuck up to yourselves. If you want each household to have enough weaponry to arm a small country, then be honest about the human cost. If you think that human cost is too high a price to pay - and you fucking should think that - then get rid of the goddamn guns. It's not as if they're a necessity to life. Your life will be just as rich and fulfilling if you can't buy guns in every second shop, I promise.

[Kieran McConville]

The way these events seem to be upticking in frequency, I'm left with the feeling that America has a lot more than just a gun problem (although better regulation would indeed be a much needed panacea there).

[corianderstem]

Of course it's not just guns. What is going on in the minds of so many people that the resolution to any problem or anger is extreme violence?

I mean, how the fuck do you even begin to try and change that sort of thinking in society?

Which is certainly not to say I don't want to restrict guns. Absolutely, I do. It's insane.

[cobl04]

Even our hard right thinks your gun laws are fucked. My goodness.


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[Moonlit_Angel]

So I just watched Obama's speech.

"Does anybody really believe that?"

"Those of us who are lucky enough to hug our kids a little closer..."

And that's just a couple lines that jumped out at me alongside what else has been quoted here. Damn. He pulled absolutely NO punches.

And thank god for that. I'm glad he's angry. And I'm glad he showed it. That was a really, REALLY cathartic speech. Love that he called out Congress, too, for blocking any reform on this issue.

Honestly, as defeated as we may all feel right now, I can't help but feel, in the way back of my mind, that eventually we may start to see something change. I really think the pro-gun side should start paying serious attention, because I do sense that eventually, there is going to be a point where the scales are tipped so far that people will finally get legit fed up with the NRA and their ilk and tell them to just fuck off.

I know that seems unbelievable, especially considering Sandy Hook didn't seem to change things, but I have heard about individuals working in recent years to get some sort of movement going (including some of the people who've been intimately affected by some of these mass shootings) and as Obama himself noted, a good percentage of Americans do support changes to our gun laws. So I think the seeds for serious change are there. It's just a matter of pushing to make them a reality.

Maybe that's just my idealistic side talking again, too, trying to grasp at some sort of hope and optimism I can find after this horrible news. I dunno. But it's something I certainly would like to see happen (though, obviously, without yet another mass shooting accompanying the notable change).

Originally Posted by Kieran McConville

The way these events seem to be upticking in frequency, I'm left with the feeling that America has a lot more than just a gun problem (although better regulation would indeed be a much needed panacea there).

Indeed. The fact that it very often seems to be men, most of whom are young, carrying out these shooting sprees, should tell us something about our culture of masculinity, too, and the negative effects that come from that. Women have occasionally carried out mass shooting sprees, too, yes, but not anywhere near as often as men do.

And regarding the comments from our Australian posters here...see, that is one of SO many things I do not get about this issue. If our allies, the people we're supposed to trust and listen to, think we've got a problem with this issue, shouldn't that be TELLING us something? I know our country's got a very individualistic mindset and all, but good lord, our allies are there for a reason. And we can learn things from them. Lots of things.

Originally Posted by bono_212

I just want to cry, I feel so defeated right now.

[Salome]

It is inevitable that the US will move towards stricter gun regulation.
You can't try to rationalize insanity forever.

The people who are responsible for preventing that moment to be tomorrow instead of yesterday should be utterly disgusted with themselves though.

I have to spend 2 weeks in the US later this year for work and I am fucking dreading it.

[Kieran McConville]

Originally Posted by Moonlit_Angel

Indeed. The fact that it very often seems to be men, most of whom are young, carrying out these shooting sprees, should tell us something about our culture of masculinity, too, and the negative effects that come from that. Women have occasionally carried out mass shooting sprees, too, yes, but not anywhere near as often as men do.

To be honest, that wasn't entirely what I was thinking of... I mean I'm sure it's a factor, but there was a culture of masculinity 40 years ago too. Something else is going on. There are people with nothing to lose (or who think they have nothing to lose).

[namkcuR]

Originally Posted by Axver

Simple confusion.



Nobody in Australia can understand why the US has such a fetish for its insane absence of gun control policy. Every time one of these shootings happens, people here will turn to each other and say "after Port Arthur in 1996, we implemented stricter gun control laws. Guess what happened? No more mass shootings."



Same in New Zealand, just replace Port Arthur 1996 with Aramoana 1990.



America, wake the fuck up to yourselves. If you want each household to have enough weaponry to arm a small country, then be honest about the human cost. If you think that human cost is too high a price to pay - and you fucking should think that - then get rid of the goddamn guns. It's not as if they're a necessity to life. Your life will be just as rich and fulfilling if you can't buy guns in every second shop, I promise.

There may be a fetish for an absence of gun control policy among a large minority here, but that's not the reason our laws don't change. The reason our laws don't change is because too many of our politicians are bought off by the NRA and the gun manufacturing/selling industry it works for. Mandatory background checks before gun purchases are supported by something like 90% of the population here, but that doesn't mean anything to a congress with many politicians who are in the NRA's pockets. This is really just one more case of a private industry paying off politicians to let them do what they want. Except it's worse in this case because that private industry is literally willing to let people get killed in order to protect its profits.


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[Vlad n U 2]

Originally Posted by Kieran McConville

To be honest, that wasn't entirely what I was thinking of... I mean I'm sure it's a factor, but there was a culture of masculinity 40 years ago too. Something else is going on. There are people with nothing to lose (or who think they have nothing to lose).

Reactionary ideology may have a bit to do with it, a fairly large portion of these shooters have been found to have unsavoury beliefs/fetishes. I would also say that the internet, in particular certain message boards, provide encouragement to these sorts of actions.

[Moonlit_Angel]

Originally Posted by Kieran McConville

To be honest, that wasn't entirely what I was thinking of... I mean I'm sure it's a factor, but there was a culture of masculinity 40 years ago too. Something else is going on. There are people with nothing to lose (or who think they have nothing to lose).

Ah, I see. I was just kind of expanding out from there with my thoughts, but I am interested to hear your other theories about why you think this is a big problem, especially in more recent years. I think Vlad is on the right track with some of the other possibilities.

[YBORCITY]

F**k Obama, F**k Congress, F**k Senate they are all gutless cowards and this will continue unabated.... and by the way F**k the NRA. And before I get flamed for being a"libtard" or whatever keep in ind I'm conservative Reagan Republican but the difference is I just don't tow the party line and can think for myself, anyway you slice it this is wrong and frustrating that NOTHING will be done about it.

[Diemen]

Originally Posted by YBORCITY

F**k Obama, F**k Congress, F**k Senate they are all gutless cowards and this will continue unabated.... and by the way F**k the NRA. And before I get flamed for being a"libtard" or whatever keep in ind I'm conservative Reagan Republican but the difference is I just don't tow the party line and can think for myself, anyway you slice it this is wrong and frustrating that NOTHING will be done about it.

This is one of those issues where the blame is not equally spread. This is an issue where the NRA, its lobbyists and the (mostly Republican) politicians beholden to them have systematically obstructed any attempts at meaningful reform and have poisoned the well by getting a large percentage of their base to believe that ANY new gun control laws are anti-American and a threat to our liberty. The sheriff of Roseburg, OR, incidentally, sent the White House a letter after Sandy Hook that flat out said that he would not enforce ANY new gun control laws, and would prevent federal officials in his jurisdiction from doing the same.

Think about that for a second. The NRA and its ilk would rather promote open rebellion in the face of any attempt at gun control reform than to actually find solutions to the problem of repeated mass shootings. The profits of the gun manufacturers seem more important than the lives of innocent people. It's maddening.

[Kieran McConville]

It's sort of awkward that sheriffs run for office in the US (where everything from dog catcher up seems to be elected). Because in any other system he'd be sacked for insubordination.

[Kieran McConville]

Originally Posted by Moonlit_Angel

Ah, I see. I was just kind of expanding out from there with my thoughts, but I am interested to hear your other theories about why you think this is a big problem, especially in more recent years. I think Vlad is on the right track with some of the other possibilities.

Well I'm rather short on theories but I too think Vlad has a point regarding the internet.

If I had a theory it might be that this is a culture in deep crisis, not merely in the US, but perhaps in more extreme form there, and amplified by the relatively over-availability of guns there. The internet is just part of it all, but there is a drive to forms of absolutism (recycled or otherwise) that does not surprise me, in the context of a wider cultural milieu which has apparently no values other than the market, and money. I guess that most of us, most of the time, are on a relatively even keel. But not all of us.

[bono_212]

Gathered all together in one place:

Reaction of 2016 candidates to Oregon shooting - CBS News

[nbelcik]

http://gawker.com/you-dont-pass-a-po...ium=socialflow

[bono_212]

This has to be the final flub, right?