ongoing mass shootings thread

[namkcuR]

Simple confusion.



Nobody in Australia can understand why the US has such a fetish for its insane absence of gun control policy. Every time one of these shootings happens, people here will turn to each other and say "after Port Arthur in 1996, we implemented stricter gun control laws. Guess what happened? No more mass shootings."



Same in New Zealand, just replace Port Arthur 1996 with Aramoana 1990.



America, wake the fuck up to yourselves. If you want each household to have enough weaponry to arm a small country, then be honest about the human cost. If you think that human cost is too high a price to pay - and you fucking should think that - then get rid of the goddamn guns. It's not as if they're a necessity to life. Your life will be just as rich and fulfilling if you can't buy guns in every second shop, I promise.

There may be a fetish for an absence of gun control policy among a large minority here, but that's not the reason our laws don't change. The reason our laws don't change is because too many of our politicians are bought off by the NRA and the gun manufacturing/selling industry it works for. Mandatory background checks before gun purchases are supported by something like 90% of the population here, but that doesn't mean anything to a congress with many politicians who are in the NRA's pockets. This is really just one more case of a private industry paying off politicians to let them do what they want. Except it's worse in this case because that private industry is literally willing to let people get killed in order to protect its profits.


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[Vlad n U 2]

To be honest, that wasn't entirely what I was thinking of... I mean I'm sure it's a factor, but there was a culture of masculinity 40 years ago too. Something else is going on. There are people with nothing to lose (or who think they have nothing to lose).

Reactionary ideology may have a bit to do with it, a fairly large portion of these shooters have been found to have unsavoury beliefs/fetishes. I would also say that the internet, in particular certain message boards, provide encouragement to these sorts of actions.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

To be honest, that wasn't entirely what I was thinking of... I mean I'm sure it's a factor, but there was a culture of masculinity 40 years ago too. Something else is going on. There are people with nothing to lose (or who think they have nothing to lose).

Ah, I see. I was just kind of expanding out from there with my thoughts, but I am interested to hear your other theories about why you think this is a big problem, especially in more recent years. I think Vlad is on the right track with some of the other possibilities.

 

[YBORCITY]

F**k Obama, F**k Congress, F**k Senate they are all gutless cowards and this will continue unabated.... and by the way F**k the NRA. And before I get flamed for being a"libtard" or whatever keep in ind I'm conservative Reagan Republican but the difference is I just don't tow the party line and can think for myself, anyway you slice it this is wrong and frustrating that NOTHING will be done about it.

 

[Diemen]

F**k Obama, F**k Congress, F**k Senate they are all gutless cowards and this will continue unabated.... and by the way F**k the NRA. And before I get flamed for being a"libtard" or whatever keep in ind I'm conservative Reagan Republican but the difference is I just don't tow the party line and can think for myself, anyway you slice it this is wrong and frustrating that NOTHING will be done about it.

This is one of those issues where the blame is not equally spread. This is an issue where the NRA, its lobbyists and the (mostly Republican) politicians beholden to them have systematically obstructed any attempts at meaningful reform and have poisoned the well by getting a large percentage of their base to believe that ANY new gun control laws are anti-American and a threat to our liberty. The sheriff of Roseburg, OR, incidentally, sent the White House a letter after Sandy Hook that flat out said that he would not enforce ANY new gun control laws, and would prevent federal officials in his jurisdiction from doing the same.

Think about that for a second. The NRA and its ilk would rather promote open rebellion in the face of any attempt at gun control reform than to actually find solutions to the problem of repeated mass shootings. The profits of the gun manufacturers seem more important than the lives of innocent people. It's maddening.

 

[Kieran McConville]

It's sort of awkward that sheriffs run for office in the US (where everything from dog catcher up seems to be elected). Because in any other system he'd be sacked for insubordination.

 

[Kieran McConville]

Ah, I see. I was just kind of expanding out from there with my thoughts, but I am interested to hear your other theories about why you think this is a big problem, especially in more recent years. I think Vlad is on the right track with some of the other possibilities.

Well I'm rather short on theories but I too think Vlad has a point regarding the internet.

If I had a theory it might be that this is a culture in deep crisis, not merely in the US, but perhaps in more extreme form there, and amplified by the relatively over-availability of guns there. The internet is just part of it all, but there is a drive to forms of absolutism (recycled or otherwise) that does not surprise me, in the context of a wider cultural milieu which has apparently no values other than the market, and money. I guess that most of us, most of the time, are on a relatively even keel. But not all of us.

 

[bono_212]

Gathered all together in one place:

Reaction of 2016 candidates to Oregon shooting - CBS News

 

[nbelcik]

http://gawker.com/you-dont-pass-a-p..._source=gawker_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

 

[bono_212]

This has to be the final flub, right?

 

[corianderstem]

Hey, sometimes stuff happens. Terrorists fly planes into buildings, man. It happens. You don't just pass laws and shit after that.

 

[deep]

This has to be the final flub, right?

He's at 4% now

 

[bono_212]

I'd almost expect him to drop out tomorrow, but I doubt it.

 

[Irvine511]

Re-reading this thread is devastating.

Arguing against gun control -- sweeping gun control as seen in all other developed nations -- is lunacy.

I am proud of my country in so many ways. This is not one of them. I am at a loss to explain any of this. It boggles my mind.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Gathered all together in one place:

Reaction of 2016 candidates to Oregon shooting - CBS News

"[O]bviously, there are going to be those who are going to be calling for gun control. But you know, that happens every time we have one of these incidents. Obviously, that's not the issue." - Ben Carson

Of course it isn't! Why on earth would the issue of guns be discussed after a whole bunch of people were killed by those very weapons? That's just silly talk!

 

[bono_212]

His response is so disgustingly ignorant, I can't even. "That happens everytime...we haven't done anything...so obviously that's not the issue."

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

I just don't get it. We can discuss, and HAVE discussed, virtually every other issue under the sun that might have any sort of impact on mass shootings-violence in the media, violent video games, mental illness, etc.

But for some reason, when it comes to talking about the actual weapon that was responsible for killing these people, somehow that's suddenly off limits for conversation? Those people weren't being shot at with a video game. They weren't killed by a violent program. A mental illness didn't strike them down, either.

A bullet took their lives. A bullet that came from a gun. It's kind of hard to shoot people without a gun, after all.

WHY is that fact so hard for people to acknowledge?

 

[zuma]

I just watched this dvd again the other day.

http://youtu.be/egQncpYH90g

How sad - almost 15 years later and nothing has changed.
I just don't get it. But like someone else said if the sight of 20 dead first graders doesn't do anything, nothing will. My friend said that everyone in favor of guns should get a folder with pictures of what those first responders had to see in Sandy Hook, but I'm afraid not even that would change anything, because y'know stuff happens.

??


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[Galeongirl]

 

[Axver]

You Don't Pass a Pool Fencing Law After a Child Drowns, Says Jeb, Who Did Just That

What confuses me the most about this, actually, is not his hypocrisy but the implication that pools need not be fenced and that a pool without a fence is acceptable. From an Australian perspective, a fence might as well be an integral part of a pool, in the same way every car has a seatbelt and airbags or cinemas have emergency exits or a twentieth-floor balcony has a railing.

Of course you pass laws to keep pools fenced, and you definitely pass laws to fucking regulate weapons designed specifically to kill. The influence of the NRA and its supporters boggles my mind. These people actually have shit for brains.

 

[Irvine511]

Given the lengths that Jeb is going in order to disassociate himself from his brother, arguably the worst president in history, you'd think he'd avoid sounding like Rumsfeld circa 2003/4.

 

[Hewson]

Mom of Oregon shooter bragged about her arsenal of weapons online: report


The mother should be locked up.

 

[anitram]

She's lucky he didn't turn on her like the guy in Newtown.

I'm not sure that anything will ever change. Maybe if some lunatic went into a maternity ward and shot up a bunch of pregnant women so that the Republicans are torn between guns and fetuses. And even then they'd argue that the outcome would have been different if the moms and nurses were packing.

 

[nbelcik]

And even then they'd argue that the outcome would have been different if the moms and nurses were packing.

"Fetuses need to be armed to protect themselves from tragedies like this, as well as the tragedy of abortion"- Mike Huckabee, probably



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[corianderstem]

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and being surprised when the results are the same.

We do nothing over and over again, and can't figure out why nothing changes.

 

[bono_212]

This exchange with my cousin is depressing:

Cousin: Did you know that 60 gun related deaths happened in Chicago alone in September ...deadliest September since 2002 .chicago has the strictest gun laws and yet Obama doesn't mention this from his very own hometown?

Me: And Indiana has some of the weakest gun control laws. No one wants to mention that either. This is what happens when you let the states decide on an issue like this. Illinois can do what they want, but they can't make it harder to get a gun in the state that's right next door.

Him: So your telling me they can come over with their Illinois drivers license and come to Indiana and purchase a gun ? You better do some more research because they can't.

Me: Yes. I am telling you that

Indiana guns: Favorite of Chicago gangbangers | WGN-TV

I await his response...

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Stephen Colbert said something similar when talking about this on his show last night, Cori. It was a good speech.

Re: the Oregon shooter's mom-holy crap, that article.

“And when the mood strikes, and as long as we’re tossing around brand names, I sling an AR, Tek-9 or AK over my shoulder, or holster a Glock 21 (not 22), or one of my other handguns, like the Sig Sauer P226, and walk out the door,” Harper bragged. “I find the shotguns are a little too cumbersome to open carry.”

Here's my two simple questions: Why the fuck is this something worth bragging about? Do people really think this makes them look cool, look like a badass?

I'm not sure that anything will ever change. Maybe if some lunatic went into a maternity ward and shot up a bunch of pregnant women so that the Republicans are torn between guns and fetuses. And even then they'd argue that the outcome would have been different if the moms and nurses were packing.

Yeah, seriously, for all our "Think of the children!" hand-wringing we do on a regular basis in this country when it comes to any other issue that poses some potential threat to them, for all our talk about being "pro-life" and how "every life is sacred", it's stunning how a bunch of children being murdered in cold blood by nutjobs with guns doesn't seem to be enough to make us do a damn thing.

What confuses me the most about this, actually, is not his hypocrisy but the implication that pools need not be fenced and that a pool without a fence is acceptable. From an Australian perspective, a fence might as well be an integral part of a pool, in the same way every car has a seatbelt and airbags or cinemas have emergency exits or a twentieth-floor balcony has a railing.

But...but that's "big government interference", you see! That's just the government trying to tell us what to do with our lives and treating us like idiot babies who can't make our own choices!

(Seriously, that is what people actually say and believe in response to your suggestions. No joke.)

 

[bono_212]

The conversation continues:

Cousin: Your referencing gun shows ... You cannot go to a gun store and purchase a firearm . Gun shows would be like me selling my Arsenal and not really caring about the purchaser because all I care about is money . Gun shows are like carnies and sneaky underhanded dealings happen ... The almighty dollar controls that


Me: right. And that's what people are asking for. Stricter control on things like Gun shows. This shouldn't be acceptable, and it's the cause of the perceived failure of gun laws in Illinois.

Someone...please...I don't...I don't understand...


EDIT: Now he's apparently on my side of the argument, lol. Enough of that for one day.

 

[cobl04]

I feel very sad for all of you, all Americans, who are on the right side of this debate. The depression you must feel when these things happen and nothing gets done must be absolutely crushing. Obama's speech went round the world and it was amazing, how sad that he will be replaced by either a Republican who loves guns or a Democrat who won't want to tread on toes early in his/her Presidency and won't do anything. That deaths via guns vs terrorism graph was so hard to look at. Conservatives aren't bad people, I'm sure, but when you put it like that... wow.

Again, no mass shootings here since we decided to change our gun laws. We're a country of 25 million people. Fucked.

 

[bono_212]

My cousin has now deleted the whole status chain, so I can't go back and find it, but I tried to point out the Australia thing to him and ask him why he thinks Americans are so inherently incapable of change if it works elsewhere...no answer.