One more > for Family Values???

[anitram]

Ok,

I just read the six page transcript.

And Craig never admits anything.

And the officer tries several times to coax him into it.



I really believe if he got an attorney they would not have even charged him.

Same.

Even had he gotten charged, Craig had an excellent defence. Remember we are working on a criminal standard here, and there is no way I believe he'd have been convicted. Based on his own words, it's very possible that this was a misunderstanding.

I am not saying that I think it necessarily was a misunderstanding. But guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, it most certainly wasn't.

 

[diamond]

This guy Allen, I believe is gulity.

He offered the decoy $20 to perform oral sex on the officer.



So who is included in your 'We' ?

The majority of the Republican party, and not you apparently.

dbs

 

[deep]

I have my own brain

so I don't really care what a majority of this party or that party thinks

or for that matter what most Americans, atheists, Moslems, Europeans or whoever think. Sometimes, majorities are wrong.

 

[deep]

Same.

Even had he gotten charged, Craig had an excellent defence. Remember we are working on a criminal standard here, and there is no way I believe he'd have been convicted. Based on his own words, it's very possible that this was a misunderstanding.

I am not saying that I think it necessarily was a misunderstanding. But guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, it most certainly wasn't.

I don't know how a person could read the transcript and not come to that conclusion.

I expected to read something that would lead me to conclude quite the opposite.

 

[diamond]

I don't know how a person could read the transcript and not come to that conclusion.

I expected to read something that would lead me to conclude quite the opposite.

Well apparently the Senator felt otherwise, being there and witnessing first hand of what really happened, and maybe appreciative that the arresting officers didn't make a scene and thereby chose to plead guilty, after I'm sure he being a lawmaker got legal advice- but it backfired.

Now he has the hindsight, and arm chair quaterbacks on FYM supporting his current lie.

Speaks volumes from many angles.


dbs

 

[deep]

You know looking at these two cases.


Just answer this question honestly;


assuming both of the incidents happen to you

1. A guy offers you $20 if you will led him perform oral sex you.

2. You are sitting in a enclosed stall. A foot in the next stalls taps a couple of times. That foot slides over into your stall. Also, a hand appears under the divider.

Would you report both, neither, or one of these incidents to the police?

Which one would you be more inclined to remember?


I have never had a person offer me money for sex. If I did I would consider it a sexual advance.

I think I do recall seeing a random foot or hand under a stall. I just ignored it. And nothing came of it. I always thought it was a kid fooling around.
Perhaps it was a U S Senator. Regardless, I never considered myself sexually assaulted.

 

[diamond]

You know looking at these two cases.


Just answer this question honestly;


assuming both of the incidents happen to you

1. A guy offers you $20 if you will led him perform oral sex you.

2. You are sitting in a enclosed stall. A foot in the next stalls taps a couple of times. That foot slides over into your stall. Also, a hand appears under the divider.

Would you report both, neither, or one of these incidents to the police?

Which one would you be more inclined to remember?


I have never had a person offer me money for sex. If I did I would consider it a sexual advance.

I think I do recall seeing a random foot or hand under a stall. I just ignored it. And nothing came of it. I always thought it was a kid fooling around.
Perhaps it was a U S Senator. Regardless, I never considered myself sexually assaulted.

You chose to leave out that the Senator peeked in on the officer a couple of times thru the cracks in the stall first in #2.

And I have been approached numerous times as a youth and young adult, but being a youth wasn't fully cognizant of my rights and did nothing.

If I was being peeked on in a stall in a public bathroom and that guy that sat next to me a started sliding his foot over and then his hand under the divider, then yes I would probably dial 911 and/or find the nearest officer and report him.

And if a fruitball offered me 20.00 for sex I would do take the same course of action.

dbs

 

[deep]

And I have been approached numerous times as a youth and young adult, but being a youth wasn't fully cognizant of my rights and did nothing.

dbs

this is not about children or youths


and you know I have no tolerance for people that harm children


If you are including this into your thought process
then that explains why you responses are out of proportion to the actual incident

 

[deep]

You chose to leave out that the Senator peeked in on the officer a couple of times thru the cracks in the stall first in #2.



If I was being peeked on in a stall in a public bathroom

dbs

honestly, I have no idea how many times I have been peaked in at when I have been in a stall


I have noticed feet outside of the stall a few times
but I didn't make eye contact


I suppose if I made eye contact I might be looking for a hook up

so if any cruisers checked me out,
they moved on because I don't play that game



Now, it is obvious a police decoy does the opposite, they do what they can to solicit sexual advances.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

if the religious right didn't get their blessed panties in a bunch over homosexuality this "behavior" for the most part wouldn't exist because these men wouldn't be scared to hide it from society.

ugh... it's not that relgion is a bad thing. if only those who believed in those religions didn't try to save the rest of the fucking world from their so called sins, we'd all be better off.

if god really believes homosexuality is a sin, then every gay person in the world will burn in hell for all eternity. shouldn't that be enough? the person who's doing what you don't like, if what you believe in is true, is going to burn like the flamer you think he is. have a cookie and shut the fuck up about it already.

 

[Irvine511]

Sometimes, majorities are wrong.

what!?!?!?!

you mean to tell me that sometimes The Will of the People might not be what's Right and True?

 

[Irvine511]

fruitball

 

[martha]

Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase have a cookie and shut the fuck up about it already. [/B]

Is this my new sig?

 

[dazzlingamy]

I can't believe you can be arrested for putting your foot under someones stall and passing your hand under there. What if he thought he needed some paper?
Here's some paper
RIGHT you're nicked homo!
or to somesuch.

I don't know if I really think baiting is a great idea. Placing temptation is sort of putting someone up for the fall. If i was walking the streets and found $20 on the road, i'd pick it up, look around for anyone in case it was theres and then keep it. What if police put it there to catch would be theifs? How shite would that be?

I sort feel sorry for the guy 1. if he wasn't doing anything, the fact that you can get arrested for such small things (maybe he was being jolly and tapping his foot in time with the other guy)
or 2. if he was doing anything - it jus shows another in the closet man living a secret half hearted life - shit scared of anything coming to the fore. Yes they still vote to keep them gay peeps down. and keeping the whole discrimatory actions going on
sad sad cycle.

 

[CTU2fan]

Agreed about baiting...I never how understood how those kind of vice/sting operations aren't entrapment and unconstitutional.

And re: deep's post above I would report neither. I'm not sure if I've been peeked at, but if I was a harmless peek isn't something to squeal to the cops about. Hell, I've taken the odd peek at somebody before, no harm in peeking.

As for the other one, I've had somebody randomly offer to let me go around the world for $10. Call a cop? No, I just declined, she said "my cousin's a lucky girl" and that was it. But then again I think prostitution ought to be legal so maybe I'm biased.

 

[martha]

I could give a shit about Craig (the higher the horse, the longer the fall), but unwanted sexual advances in bathrooms are not something to excuse. People who commit sexual assaults frequently start with peeping and exposure. I'm not talking about what Craig did, but in this thread people seem to be excusing peeping and other forms of sexual assault.

 

[Vincent Vega]

Tolerance isn't easy for some, and don't forget, they are perverts!

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Is this my new sig?

i approve

 

[Irvine511]

it's interesting -- Craig is both a purveyor of, and victim of, homophobia.

like so many Republicans these days. isn't it weird that the very legislation Craig voted for creates the kind of cultural environment where a closted man like himself feels compelled to participate in the very behaviors produced by a culture that is hostile to openly gay lives?

oh, the irony.

also, it seems like this cop was really, really trying to get an arrest out of this. and, hey, he was only harassing a fag, so no biggie. those pervs deserve it.

only this fag happened to be a Senator.

anyway -- do people now see why some police departments in major cities have BGLT units? that, amongst some gays, there's as big a mistrust and resentment towards the police as there is in some African-American communites, as both groups have a hsitory of being harassed, knocked around, and degraded by police officers?

that's why DC has this guy:

and here's an interesting article on him and his unit.

 

[Diemen]

You chose to leave out that the Senator peeked in on the officer a couple of times thru the cracks in the stall first in #2.

And I have been approached numerous times as a youth and young adult, but being a youth wasn't fully cognizant of my rights and did nothing.

If I was being peeked on in a stall in a public bathroom and that guy that sat next to me a started sliding his foot over and then his hand under the divider, then yes I would probably dial 911 and/or find the nearest officer and report him.

And if a fruitball offered me 20.00 for sex I would do take the same course of action.

dbs

You know, it's really funny (read: old and tired) that you're portraying yourself as the beacon of all things pure and moral, considering your admitted past.

 

[CTU2fan]

it's interesting -- Craig is both a purveyor of, and victim of, homophobia.

like so many Republicans these days. isn't it weird that the very legislation Craig voted for creates the kind of cultural environment where a closted man like himself feels compelled to participate in the very behaviors produced by a culture that is hostile to openly gay lives?

oh, the irony.

There ought to be a name for it...if he were black he'd be an Uncle Tom.

 

[Irvine511]

You know, it's really funny (read: old and tired) that you're portraying yourself as the beacon of all things pure and moral, considering your admitted past.

through Jesus n' Rehab, all things are possible, and all things are forgiven.

doesn't matter if you spent your life being a total shit -- if you say you're sorry to Jesus just before you die (and so long as your penis only found a 2nd home inside vaginas), then all's good.

 

[Irvine511]

There ought to be a name for it...if he were black he'd be an Uncle Tom.

the gay term is "Auntie Tom."

seriously.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

 

[deep]

Not one of us!!!!

 

[joyfulgirl]

In case some of you missed this (sorry if it's already been posted, I scanned the thread and didn't see it, but it's worth repeating anyway...)

"A Nasty, Bad Naughty Boy"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y35lUuup8f8

 

[Irvine511]

In case some of you missed this (sorry if it's already been posted, I scanned the thread and didn't see it, but it's worth repeating anyway...)

"A Nasty, Bad Naughty Boy"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y35lUuup8f8

makes me wonder if he's just repeating the same words he paid Jeff Gannon to say to him ...




(no, just kididng, i have no idea of Craig was one of Gannon's clients; now Scott McCleland ...)

 

[joyfulgirl]

makes me wonder if he's just repeating the same words he paid Jeff Gannon to say to him ...




(no, just kididng, i have no idea of Craig was one of Gannon's clients; now Scott McCleland ...)

Clearly he had spanking on his mind.

 

[deep]

Senator Arlen Specter said Idaho Republican Larry Craig should try to withdraw his guilty plea to disorderly conduct in connection with an incident in an airport men's room and fight the case.

``I think he could be vindicated,'' Specter, the senior Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee, said on the ``Fox News Sunday'' program.

Specter, of Pennsylvania, said that Craig ``hasn't resigned'' from the Senate, only that he ``intends to resign'' as of Sept. 30. That gives Craig a month to fight the case in court, Specter said. If the case went to trial, Specter said Craig ``wouldn't be convicted of anything.''

Spector

with a GOP minority opinion

 

[deep]

Craig should have just told the officer that he would get back to him in 24 hours

then Craig would have had time to have consulted with counsel and get his story straight


-> Dick Cheney got drunk and shot someone in the face
law enforcement had to wait 24 hours before they could get a meeting with Cheney