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Old 09-05-2007, 04:12 PM   #201
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Originally posted by Irvine511



and all three men should suffer the same consequences. though, right now, it does look like the GOP is playing a very public game of "smear the queer."

i'm also hopeful that we'll all realize what a ridiculous waste of resources it is to send undercover officers into bathrooms to tap their toes.
A colleague and I were just 5 minutes ago talking about both of these very things. She told me about a friend of hers (a very out gay man) who was solicited by a policeman in the mall bathroom (the very one I mentioned earlier in this thread), and was arrested. When he showed up in court, there were 4 other men there for the same reason, with the same cop. The judge threw all 4 cases out on the spot because they had all obviously been entrapped by the same cop.
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Old 09-05-2007, 04:15 PM   #202
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Originally posted by Irvine511




i'm hopeful that something positive will come out of this.

i'm hopeful that straight men like David Vitter or drunk drivers like Kevin Brady will either be thrown under the bus by the Republicans like Craig was, or that gay sex will be treated exactly the same as straight sex by the Republicans. all three men did very bad things -- though i think we can all say that driving drunk is, by far, the most serious offense -- and all three men should suffer the same consequences. though, right now, it does look like the GOP is playing a very public game of "smear the queer."

i'm also hopeful that we'll all realize what a ridiculous waste of resources it is to send undercover officers into bathrooms to tap their toes. now, everyone's going to be double-checking just how wide their stance is, and it seems to me that this is absurd as well.

i also hope that everyone realizes how much homophobia hurts everyone. there's no question, really, that Craig is a homosexual. i don't think he's gay, because that would require some courage on his part, but it's totally fair to say that he's attracted to members of the same sex and seeks out sexual encounters with them. and it's the pathology of homophobia, the legacy of homophobia, the atmosphere of policies authored and championed by bigots like Craig and the rest of the Republican party that leads to behavior such as this. in a less homophobic world, in a world where two men can comfortably go on dates and not feel at all uncomfortable and ashamed, we'll have less of this closeted behavior to "police."
Vitter was never arrested, and before his perversions surfaced he got right w his wife and God.

Craig is a closeted Gay and also peeks in bathroom stalls and hits on men as long as he can get away with it. But alas he's been caught and now he is showing:

- a dis respect for law that he was elected to uphold
- irresponsibility in not admitting guilt
-lying to protect his name to his closet allies the same way Bill Clinton did until the semen dress turned up.

The hurried pre arrainged gulity plea of a lesser charge is the semen dress in this debacle.

The schelp now is trying to undo the mess that he created and also refuses to take responsiblity for.

I would respect the guy if he were more of a Jim Kolbe of Az, an openly Gay Republican, that served our state well but this guy is a complete weasley coward, and gives all men Gay or Straight a very bad name.

dbs
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Old 09-05-2007, 04:17 PM   #203
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Craig is a closeted Gay and also peeks in bathroom stalls and hits on men as long as he can get away with it. But alas he's been caught and now he is showing:

- a dis respect for law that he was elected to uphold
- irresponsibility in not admitting guilt
-lying to protect his name to his closet allies the same way Bill Clinton did until the semen dress turned up.

The hurried pre arrainged gulity plea of a lesser charge is the semen dress in this debacle.

The schelp now is trying to undo the mess that he created and also refuses to take responsiblity for.

I would respect the guy if he were more of a Jim Kolbe of Az, an openly Gay Republican, that served our state well but this guy is a complete weasley coward, and gives all men Gay or Straight a very bad name.

dbs
But the bigger picture here is the irony. You said he is closeted "for whatever reasons," while everyone here has pointed out the exact reasons, which you have skipped over in the entire discussion, even though it's really the big picture.
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Old 09-05-2007, 04:41 PM   #204
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WASHINGTON (CNN) – Embattled Sen. Larry Craig was one of Bill Clinton's fiercest critics during the Senate’s 1999 impeachment trial, but the former president told CNN's Larry King Wednesday he takes no pleasure in the Idaho Republican's current situation and is "pulling" for Craig and his family.

"Honestly, didn't feel any great joy," Clinton said in an interview to air tonight at 9 p.m. ET. "When it was going on I knew that a lot of them were outed for hypocrisy before this."

Clinton added, "One of the things I did to get through that was to think hard about times in my past when I had judged people too harshly because they had a problem I didn't have. And I promised myself I'd never do that again, and I'm trying to keep that promise."

Craig was arrested in a restroom in June at the Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport on suspicion of making sexual advances to an undercover police officer in the next stall. He pleaded guilty to disorderly conduct in August, but denies he was engaging in lewd behavior. Clinton offered a sympathetic perspective on the situation.

"I just know right now he and his family have got to be hurting and I think the rest of us should just be pulling for their personal lives and the politics of this will play itself out," he added.

Asked what he makes of people who criticize activities they do themselves, the former president said, " I think maybe it's subconscious self hatred, I don't know, maybe it’s a desire to avoid being caught, maybe its just a desire to deal with what the perceive to be the social and political realities they find themselves in."
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Old 09-05-2007, 04:59 PM   #205
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Yes, yes Bill Clinton now is the Dalai Lama of Virtue and Compassion, *after*getting caught.

Re Craig's comments during the Clinton/Monica perjury scandal, at the time I thought Craig odd when he said " Bill Clinton is a very very bad and naughty boy".

I mused to myself "ok, this guy is weird" and later found out he was a "conservative" from Idaho, and I marked it mentality (in 1999) as the fellow being a bit unbalanced, and never thought of it again until now.

dbs
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Old 09-05-2007, 06:35 PM   #206
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Ah yes, diamond, the diviner of morality.

I'm sure that in 1999, when you had this guy all figured out, you were the beacon of morality yourself.
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Old 09-05-2007, 06:50 PM   #207
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Why is Clinton being brought up? Did I miss something? Did he deny he was heterosexual or something?
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Old 09-05-2007, 06:57 PM   #208
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
Re Craig's comments during the Clinton/Monica perjury scandal, at the time I thought Craig odd when he said " Bill Clinton is a very very bad and naughty boy".

I mused to myself "ok, this guy is weird" and later found out he was a "conservative" from Idaho, and I marked it mentality (in 1999) as the fellow being a bit unbalanced, and never thought of it again until now.

dbs
Oh diamond, of course you could tell he was weird -- he's a conservative. They're all weird.
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Old 09-05-2007, 07:01 PM   #209
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Originally posted by diamond
Yes, yes Bill Clinton now is the Dalai Lama of Virtue and Compassion, *after*getting caught.

Re Craig's comments during the Clinton/Monica perjury scandal, at the time I thought Craig odd when he said " Bill Clinton is a very very bad and naughty boy".

I mused to myself "ok, this guy is weird" and later found out he was a "conservative" from Idaho, and I marked it mentality (in 1999) as the fellow being a bit unbalanced, and never thought of it again until now.

dbs
Do you still not realize the big picture? The problems with homophobia that resulted in this? The reasons why he is closeted? You continue to refuse to address this point.
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Old 09-05-2007, 07:52 PM   #210
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Originally posted by martha
Why is Clinton being brought up? Did I miss something? Did he deny he was heterosexual or something?
Did you miss this little jewel?
"A Nasty, Bad Naughty Boy"
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Old 09-05-2007, 08:33 PM   #211
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Originally posted by joyfulgirl


Did you miss this little jewel?
"A Nasty, Bad Naughty Boy"
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Like I said, the higher the horse, the longer the fall.
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Old 09-05-2007, 09:48 PM   #212
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
Yes, yes Bill Clinton now is the Dalai Lama of Virtue and Compassion, *after*getting caught.

Re Craig's comments during the Clinton/Monica perjury scandal, at the time I thought Craig odd when he said " Bill Clinton is a very very bad and naughty boy".

I mused to myself "ok, this guy is weird" and later found out he was a "conservative" from Idaho, and I marked it mentality (in 1999) as the fellow being a bit unbalanced, and never thought of it again until now.

dbs


what law did Clinton break? perjury? only maybe ...

but he was impeached. he apologized, on television, and his wife forgave him. what more needs to happen?

i do not defend Craig's actions, either in the toilet or in the Senate. but i see no reason why his colleagues have fed him to the wolves, whereas they've stood by a frequenter of DC prostitutes and a drunk driver.

lots and lots of people have been killed or maimed by drunk drivers. no one's ever been killed by a blow job in the men's room.
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Old 09-05-2007, 10:44 PM   #213
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511






i do not defend Craig's actions, either in the toilet or in the Senate. but i see no reason why his colleagues have fed him to the wolves, whereas they've stood by a frequenter of DC prostitutes and a drunk driver.
.
You fail to appreciate that he's usurping the law. Vitter didn't.

Clinton tried to this, was nailed, begrudgingly apologized, and for this reason with his shrew of a wife and his disrespect of the law of the land and office of the presidency, Hilary, the self serving, irrepressible termagant will never be elected.

Mark my words, hang on to this post, place this thread in your favorites, if you're honest enough in Nov of 2008 you'll dust this off, reread it and all collectively say, "By Golly Diamond was right again, drats."

dbs
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Old 09-05-2007, 10:49 PM   #214
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Clinton tried to this, was nailed, begrudgingly apologized, and for this reason with his shrew of a wife and his disrespect of the law of the land and office of the presidency, Hilary, the self serving, irrepressible termagant will never be elected.


Are they teaching you this in church?
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Old 09-05-2007, 10:54 PM   #215
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Quote:
Originally posted by martha




Are they teaching you this in church?


My church endorses no candidate, nor do we preach politics from the pulpit, that said, do they teach this at your church:

Quote:
..smoking grass and reading kafka...
dbs
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Old 09-05-2007, 11:14 PM   #216
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I love how Christians show their love for their fellow man!!!
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Old 09-06-2007, 05:14 AM   #217
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I love how Clinton is dragged out as the devil, yet republicans can look you in the eye and defend the horrendousness that has been the reign of terror of the Bush, and truly believe it.

It truly boggles the mind
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Old 09-06-2007, 05:24 AM   #218
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You fail to appreciate that he's usurping the law. Vitter didn't.

Clinton tried to this, was nailed, begrudgingly apologized, and for this reason with his shrew of a wife and his disrespect of the law of the land and office of the presidency, Hilary, the self serving, irrepressible termagant will never be elected.

Mark my words, hang on to this post, place this thread in your favorites, if you're honest enough in Nov of 2008 you'll dust this off, reread it and all collectively say, "By Golly Diamond was right again, drats."

dbs
So, in summary, you think Clinton was the devil (coincidentally, he is not from your set of beliefs), his wife is guilty by association (?), she'll never be elected, you're always right, and you don't want to address the major issue again .
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Old 09-06-2007, 07:25 AM   #219
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


You fail to appreciate that he's usurping the law. Vitter didn't.

Clinton tried to this, was nailed, begrudgingly apologized, and for this reason with his shrew of a wife and his disrespect of the law of the land and office of the presidency, Hilary, the self serving, irrepressible termagant will never be elected.

Mark my words, hang on to this post, place this thread in your favorites, if you're honest enough in Nov of 2008 you'll dust this off, reread it and all collectively say, "By Golly Diamond was right again, drats."

dbs

I will absolutely save this one and dust it off next November for you, db.
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Old 09-06-2007, 07:40 AM   #220
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I love how Christians show their love for their fellow man!!!
And call their fellow women shrews.




But I must ask, to start things off, Mr. President, your thoughts on the Senator Craig matter. He is going to resign. He may resign. What do you -- what are your thoughts on the whole picture?

CLINTON: Well, first of all, I think we ought to recognize that this is a very traumatic time for him and his family. And whatever happens or doesn't, most of his political career was behind him. So whatever your party, we should be hoping that he and his family can work through this in a way that leaves them as whole as possible.

I think that that is more important than the politics of this. The politics of this will have to be resolved by him and the Republicans in the Senate. All I know about this is what I read in the papers. The morning papers say that his lawyer has advised him not to resign because he thought he would lose leverage.

Now he was simply given, I think, one year of probation or something, or a fine. So I don't know if they are trying to renegotiate the plea or something. It sounded like he wasn't really seriously thinking of staying throughout his term that he was trying to follow his lawyer's advice. But it looked awkward after he had said he was going to quit.

KING: Did you get any sense of satisfaction, since he was such a critic of yours during the impeachment thing, and using terms very demeaning about you?

CLINTON: No.

KING: No?

CLINTON: No. Because when it was going on, I knew that, you know, a lot of them were outed for hypocrisy long before this. And everybody knew that -- every serious student of the Constitution knew that the whole thing was bogus and that they were just jumping on a terrible personal mistake I made.

But I -- one of the things I did to try to get though that period was to think long and hard about times in my past when I had judged people too harshly because they had a problem I didn't have.

We all find it easy to judge somebody. You can always say, well, I may not be the best person in the world, but at least I never did that, you know, or the other thing, whatever it is.

And I promised myself that I would never do that again. And I'm trying to keep that promise. And so I honestly didn't feel any great joy. I don't like to see a person suffering from a self-inflicted wound that comes the inability to resolve some conflict in his or her life.

I mean, that is something everybody has to deal with. And to see it played out in public is painful to me. I didn't enjoy it at all.

KING: And one other thing in that area. What do you make, just as a student of life, of people who rail against things they do themselves?

CLINTON: I think maybe it is a little -- I don't know, subconscious self-hatred. Maybe it is a desire to avoid being caught, maybe it is just a desire to deal with what they can perceive to be the social and political realities that they found themselves in.

He came from a very conservative culture in Idaho. I think it has the smallest number of Democrats in the state legislature in the country. I don't know. But I just know right now he and his family have got to be hurting.

And I think the rest of us should just be pulling for their personal lives, their family lives, and the politics will just play itself out.
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