OMG! is Johnny Weir gay!?!?!?!

[Irvine511]

I guess this touches on the topic discussed in another thread - is "outing" a matter for the individual, or another group?

i think this misses the issue -- Johnny has outed himself in every way but in name itself. i think he still can't say, "yes, obviously i'm gay" because there will still be significant costs to that, both in the possibility of endorsements and in scores received by judges.

i don't think johnny really has a choice here.

 

[nbcrusader]

i think this misses the issue -- Johnny has outed himself in every way but in name itself.

I think I missed the actions that would be considered "outing".

 

[Irvine511]

I think I missed the actions that would be considered "outing".

just read the article Mrs. S. posted.

why is everyone asking about his sexuality?

why is Rudy Galindo, the only "out" US figure skater, asking reporters to ask him about his sexuality?

why does he say he's dating a wonderful "someone"?



this is a fairly obvious example of how one "says" that they're gay without coming out and actually saying that they're gay. i remember when i was in the process of coming out, i didn't want to be "obvious," but i wanted to let other gay men know that i might be available, so i was obsessed with finding "gay shoes" -- shoes that are popular with gay men, but might not be obviously gay to the casual observer, yet any gay person would read those shoes and know that someone is trying to send out a message. this is where we get into Queer Theory and Queer Readings of literature -- and the point i think i'm trying to make is that now, post-Queer Eye, everything that has been written about and said by Johnny is fairly easy to understand as "gay" -- yet he's not allowed to say the word, still.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I don't know if it's real but the MySpace profile that purports to be Johnny's says he is bisexual. I don't think many of the celeb ones are real so I would be skeptical of that.

Yes athletes do still have to be "closeted" because of endorsements and some elements of public opinion. More so in the traditional sports but even in figure skating. I'd hate to think judging would be affected in any way, maybe subconsciously or if the judges were actually bigoted in that way.

Is it that he's not allowed to say the word or is he being intentionally vague because he truly doesn't believe it's anyone's business? Maybe a combination of both, I don't know.

 

[verte76]

Rudy came out a long time ago, before he won Nationals. There was a great deal of speculation that that might have hurt him with the judges, which was really dumb, but it was just like ISU judges, of whom I don't have a high opinion. They finally let up, and when he turned in a flawless performance and Todd messed up, they had to give it to him.

 

[nbcrusader]

this is a fairly obvious example of how one "says" that they're gay without coming out and actually saying that they're gay. i remember when i was in the process of coming out, i didn't want to be "obvious," but i wanted to let other gay men know that i might be available, so i was obsessed with finding "gay shoes" -- shoes that are popular with gay men, but might not be obviously gay to the casual observer, yet any gay person would read those shoes and know that someone is trying to send out a message. this is where we get into Queer Theory and Queer Readings of literature -- and the point i think i'm trying to make is that now, post-Queer Eye, everything that has been written about and said by Johnny is fairly easy to understand as "gay" -- yet he's not allowed to say the word, still.

This creates somewhat of a dilema when the "outing" activity can otherwise be labeled a behavioral "stereotype" - something I would think should be avoided. I need to think some more about this.

 

[Irvine511]

This creates somewhat of a dilema when the "outing" activity can otherwise be labeled a behavioral "stereotype" - something I would think should be avoided. I need to think some more about this.

very interesting.

it seems that how the inability for someone to come "out" without suffering consequences leads them to perform stereotypical behavior in order to be read as gay -- perhaps akin to hip-hop artist having to prove something, generally to white suburban kids, about "street cred" -- which ultilmately reinforces existing stereotypes.

had never thought about that before.

it's as if there needs to be someone so beloved, so "acceptable" to a mainstream audience to come out in whatever field or profession in order to open doors for others.

yet, you'd probably get grief from elements in the gay community for being a "sellout" -- you've heard of an Uncle Tom? in gay circles, you'd call someone an "Auntie Tom."

interesting how these templates replicate themselves within different groups of certain minority status.

you're right, lots to think about.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2006/02/26/ING5RHDJ491.DTL

"The Chicago Tribune even queried former Olympic skater Rudy Galindo, who is gay, about Weir's orientation, with Tribune writer David Haugh noting that "Galindo still wishes somebody in the media would be brazen enough to simply ask Weir" about it.

Galindo was quoted as saying, in part, "Why is everybody asking him about his 'style' and not just ask him if he's gay?"

To Rudy, I say thank you. I couldn't agree with you more.

And to writer Haugh and his use of the term "brazen," I ask: Why is it brazen to ask whether someone is lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender when we, as journalists, exercise far more abandon when covering the personal endeavors of countless heterosexual boldface names? Last fall, journalist Mubarak Dahir, writing for the Empty Closet Web site, penned a succinct, important piece on the contentious issue of outing.

In discussing its history, Dahir wrote, "Traditionally, outing was used by anti-gay people as a means to ruin a gay person's life. The revelation that someone was homosexual was so horrible, it meant their demise. Today, representatives of 'mainstream' media most frequently do not ask whether or not someone is gay because it is 'personal.' Another often-repeated line is that sexual orientation is 'irrelevant.'

"... By refusing to simply ask whether or not someone is gay perpetuates the notion that answering affirmatively is the ultimate shame," Dahir concluded. "

..As journalists, it is our job to ask questions in the first place. And when we have all of the necessary, relevant information, it is our job to tell, as fairly and accurately as possible. Reporting on sexual orientation and gender identity -- perceived or otherwise, whether in life or postmortem -- should be included and dealt with the same way we approach subjects for such basic information as whether they are married, divorced, single or dating. This is an important part of providing a full measure of an individual's life, one we should stop avoiding.

Journalists must be prepared and willing to raise questions, no matter how difficult they may seem. We hold that responsibility -- even if we think the subject will be cagey or ultimately dismissive in response. And that includes simply asking, without shame or judgment, "Are you gay?"

Eric Hegedus is national president of the 1,300-member National Lesbian & Gay Journalists Association

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

What about NBC not mentioning it? Not showing his family and partner when they show the others? He was great, one of the best performances I've seen in these Olympics.



Saturday, Aug 23, 2008 5:02 pm EDT

Openly gay diver wins gold

By Maggie Hendricks

Diver Matthew Mitcham, the only openly gay male athlete in the Beijing Olympics, won gold in the 10m platform. He beat Chinese favorite Zhou Luxin by 4.8 points, preventing China from sweeping gold in diving events. Mitcham is the first Aussie to win diving gold since 1924, but that's not the only thing that makes him a trailblazer.

He is hardly the first gay athlete to compete but he is one of the first to be out while competing. American diver Greg Louganis did not share his orientation until his diving career was over. To Mitcham, he is just living his life as a gay man and as a diver, and there is nothing extraordinary about that:

“Being gay and diving are completely separate parts of my life. Of course there’s going to be crossover because some people have issues, but everyone I dive with has been so supportive."

Though he wants to be known as more than a gay man, the LGBT community is proud of their star. At OutSports, a sports Web site that focuses on the gay community, his win is front-page news. The Web site brings up a good question -- will NBC mention Mitcham's orientation during tonight's broadcast?

To Mitcham, that doesn't seem to matter. He has gold, and has reached his goals: "I’m happy with myself and where I am. I’m very happy with who I am and what I’ve done.”

UPDATE: NBC did not mention Mitcham's orientation, nor did they show his family and partner who were in the stands. NBC has made athletes' significant others a part of the coverage in the past, choosing to spotlight track athlete Sanya Richards' fiancee, a love triangle between French and Italian swimmers and Kerri Walsh's wedding ring debacle.

http://outsports.com/olympics2008/2008/08/24/nbc-media-ignore-mitchams-sexuality/

 

[INDY500]

Thank god football season starts next week.

 

[Se7en]

What about NBC not mentioning it? Not showing his family and partner when they show the others? He was great, one of the best performances I've seen in these Olympics.



Saturday, Aug 23, 2008 5:02 pm EDT

Openly gay diver wins gold

By Maggie Hendricks

Diver Matthew Mitcham, the only openly gay male athlete in the Beijing Olympics, won gold in the 10m platform. He beat Chinese favorite Zhou Luxin by 4.8 points, preventing China from sweeping gold in diving events. Mitcham is the first Aussie to win diving gold since 1924, but that's not the only thing that makes him a trailblazer.

He is hardly the first gay athlete to compete but he is one of the first to be out while competing. American diver Greg Louganis did not share his orientation until his diving career was over. To Mitcham, he is just living his life as a gay man and as a diver, and there is nothing extraordinary about that:

“Being gay and diving are completely separate parts of my life. Of course there’s going to be crossover because some people have issues, but everyone I dive with has been so supportive."

Though he wants to be known as more than a gay man, the LGBT community is proud of their star. At OutSports, a sports Web site that focuses on the gay community, his win is front-page news. The Web site brings up a good question -- will NBC mention Mitcham's orientation during tonight's broadcast?

To Mitcham, that doesn't seem to matter. He has gold, and has reached his goals: "I’m happy with myself and where I am. I’m very happy with who I am and what I’ve done.”

UPDATE: NBC did not mention Mitcham's orientation, nor did they show his family and partner who were in the stands. NBC has made athletes' significant others a part of the coverage in the past, choosing to spotlight track athlete Sanya Richards' fiancee, a love triangle between French and Italian swimmers and Kerri Walsh's wedding ring debacle.

http://outsports.com/olympics2008/2008/08/24/nbc-media-ignore-mitchams-sexuality/

really great performance last night (televised last night, anyway) - good for him.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Thank god football season starts next week.

No gay football players?

 

[dazzlingamy]

I don't know, I don't think anyhting should be made of him being openly gay when they speak about him. His sexual preferences didn't get him to where he is, and i don't think being gay is a hinderence that needs to be trotted out like 'oooh lookie a gay actually did something non gay like sport!'
We don't say 'ooh there is michael phelps, he is openly hetro, there are some sexy girls he might try to bang later...'
I just think being gay shouldn't be part of a person. Like Johnny Weir, why does he have to come out? Its no ones business but his own.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I don't know, I don't think anyhting should be made of him being openly gay when they speak about him. His sexual preferences didn't get him to where he is

I agree with that, but I also think it's a double standard to not show or mention his partner when they show and mention heterosexual partners/boyfriends/girlfriends (their orientation didn't get them to where they are either). Since he is openly gay it makes it appear as if NBC is trying to hide it somehow.

 

[Irvine511]

We don't say 'ooh there is michael phelps, he is openly hetro, there are some sexy girls he might try to bang later...'

like Stephanie Rice?

 

[Irvine511]

I agree with that, but I also think it's a double standard to not show or mention his partner when they show and mention heterosexual partners/boyfriends/girlfriends (their orientation didn't get them to where they are either). Since he is openly gay it makes it appear as if NBC is trying to hide it somehow.

exactly.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

It also makes me wonder what they would have done if Michael Phelps was openly gay

 

[Irvine511]

It also makes me wonder what they would have done if Michael Phelps was openly gay

it's interesting, because i, for one, am fully convinced that his coach Bob Bowman is gay, and considering just how much of a fatherly influence Bowman has been in Phelps' life due to the absence of Phelps' father, i think it would make a very, very interesting story.

but, heck, even in swimming you can't really come out while you're competing. Ian Thorpe is all but confirmed gay, and yet he still denies it in the most roundabout ways possible. it's probably due to the endorsements that Canadian Mark Tewksberry lost when he came out after winning the 100 back in 1992.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Yes I'm sure that endorsements are still affected, which of course is unfair. How much money would Michael make if he was openly gay?

Maybe that will change one day. I still remember when Greg Louganis hid that he was HIV positive, then hit his head on the diving board. Was he openly gay before that? I can't remember.

 

[Irvine511]

Maybe that will change one day. I still remember when Greg Louganis hid that he was HIV positive, then hit his head on the diving board. Was he openly gay before that? I can't remember.

he wasn't "openly" gay, but everyone in diving and swimming circles knew he was gay. they didn't know he was HIV+ until he came out with his book in ... 1994?

 

[Purplereign]

Yes I'm sure that endorsements are still affected, which of course is unfair. How much money would Michael make if he was openly gay?

Maybe that will change one day.

God I hope so - it just makes me all kinds of sad that we still live in an age when a persons sexuality determines / and or negatively impacts on the kind of success they can have

In light of this it will be interesting to follow the success of aussie dive gold medalist Matthew Mitcham who was, according to local aussie press, the only openly gay athlete at the games.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Yes that's who we were talking about on the previous page

 

[Purplereign]

^oops - accidentally skipped a page
(makes mental note to self to read a thread in its entirety before posting )

 

[Earnie Shavers]

Perhaps because he was an Australian athlete (i.e. not an American athlete) NBC just didn’t give him the same kind of coverage?

For what it’s worth, on the Australian coverage of the event + interviews etc since, there’s been no hiding of his sexuality, but I actually had no idea he was the single only ‘out’ gay athlete at the games until reading this thread. The Australian media (what coverage I have caught about him), to it’s credit, has been treating him the same as any heterosexual athlete. His partner has been clearly identified and interviewed and they showed him running to him in the stands after the medal ceremony, but I haven’t heard any “openly homosexual diver Matthew Mitcham, the only gay in the village” sensationalistic type of thing, but of course I might have missed it all.

Ian Thorpe is a bit of a mystery really. I’ve got two personal stories: A girl I know who was left with absolutely no uncertainty one night about what Thorpie thought of her, and then an ex-boss of mine was married to a PR manager for a tv network Thorpe was contracted to, and at the time it was well known at said network that another front office worker there (male) was involved with him, for nearly a year, and quite openly as well. Both of these stories are from about 6 or 7 years ago.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I read that there were ten openly gay athletes at the Beijing Olympics, including two women on the Norwegian handball team who are a couple. I would imagine it's a bit easier to be openly gay in a more "obscure" sport.

Sure NBC didn't give him the same level of coverage, but that still doesn't explain the double standard. I would think that the families and gf/s bf/s of all gold medal winners merit the same kind of coverage-if you're going to focus on that and they did.

That woman he was hugging after he won was the writer who wrote the original article in which he came out publicly in Australia. Apparently he suffered from depression and other issues and wanted to quit diving. I think that makes his achievement even more compelling. How much that was related to any struggles with being openly gay, I don't know. I haven't read much about it. He did an interview with The Advocate, maybe it's available online.

 

[Irvine511]

I read that there were ten openly gay athletes at the Beijing Olympics, including two women on the Norwegian handball team who are a couple. I would imagine it's a bit easier to be openly gay in a more "obscure" sport.

in athletics, it's easier to be a gay woman than a gay man.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

in athletics, it's easier to be a gay woman than a gay man.

Yes, I would imagine that's definitely true. Would that mostly be due to stereotypes that male athletes are expected to live up to? I would think so.