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Old 08-30-2008, 10:12 PM   #501
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Originally Posted by martha View Post
That's it? That's all you got without looking something up? Talk about drinking the kool-aid.
see dread's post.
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Old 08-30-2008, 10:15 PM   #502
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[QUOTE=Strongbow;5412809]Could you at least answer the following questions:

Ok, when precisely did Obama become Qualified to be President. QUOTE]

moron, u overlooked the virtues of affirmative action.

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Old 08-30-2008, 10:17 PM   #503
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Palin overall seems to me to have strong conservative, as opposed to neo-'conservative' credentials.

One of the VP candidates mooted was Joe Lieberman, a neo-'conservative' like McCain himself; McCain took a gamble on the relatively unknown Palin in the hope of winning over true conservatives AND centrist Hillary Clinton supporting Democrats.

The question is, does Palin change the equation enough to prevent one of the most disastrous decisions McCain will make in office: invading Iran?
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Old 08-30-2008, 10:25 PM   #504
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I feel Obama was somewhat qualified by the time he announced his candidacy because he'd spent 2 years in the Senate studying and making policy on national issues. However of the year and half of the campaign process, I've seen enough to know that he is well-versed and knowledgeable on the issues, and I've studied his policy goals and plans for implementation. Again, this is over a 19 month process. Palin will never be able to prove to me in 2 months that she's ready to lead, considering she's never even publicly made policy OR spent months outlining her positions on issues and policy. I would need to be able to hear from her for at least a year before I would feel confident that she knows enough to lead.
It is often said that past performance is the best predictor of future returns. My opinion on on all the candidates is based on their actions, not on their beliefs, speeches or promises. Here is my take. I realize it is meaningless to most!

Obama's election to the Illinois state senate and U.S. senate were largely a matter of circumstance. He was handed an opportunity to be elected to the Illinois state senate and screwed the person who gave it to him. His voting record was basically noncommittal on most issues; for example, voting 'Present'. His run for the U.S. senate was won when the two leading candidates were hit with scandal. His associations to Wright, Rezco and others to me show poor judgment. He is a political opportunist. I am not blaming him for taking advantage of opportunity, but that is what it is. He is a 'politician' and nothing more. He has found a following in people looking for hope after being misled for so long.

Biden. Use your own words or at least give credit when you borrow someone elses. Enough said.

McCain. Enough with the POW talk. Those who respect it just DO. There are many who don't. That is just sad. He is experienced and has a history of being bipartisan. The man almost changed parties in the past few years, yet he is accused of being the next Bush. He does not even like Bush!!!! He maybe too old, but he seems pretty lucid.

Palin. Her approval rating in her home state is immense. She took on her own party and got her state back on track. She has her beliefs and doesn't apologize for them. I would rather know where I stand with someone and disagree with them than deal with someone whose beliefs change based on circumstance. So far in this race, she is the only agent of CHANGE that I have seen. The next few months will show how she fares.

My vote as of this moment (subject to change) is with McCain/Palin. If they act nutty, I will vote accordingly. The argument of platform seems irrelevant to me with a check and balance in congress. That was the original idea wasn't it? I happen to vote by issue and I find myself on both sides of the fence depending on the issue. I find it really sad that people are so polarized by party, personality or demographic. For those of us in the U.S., we should vote for right and wrong, not what is hip so enough with the hype on both sides. I just want someone who can actually LEAD us in a better manner than we have been led in a long time. I want someone who puts leadership ahead of politics. That may be idealistic, but I think it is what we should aspire to.
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Old 08-30-2008, 10:28 PM   #505
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^Then, you and I have completely different qualifications and qualities we feel are important for leadership on this level. There's nothing wrong with that. I enjoyed reading your point of view.
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Old 08-30-2008, 10:31 PM   #506
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Shocking show of disunity, surely to be covered by the networks....

Quote:
'Ronvoys' bring supporters to rally for Ron Paul

There's no room at the Xcel Energy Center for maverick Ron Paul, so his acolytes have packed their cars, hitched rides on "Ronvoys" and will pitch tents at Ronstock '08 in defiance of this week's GOP convention.

Almost 9,800 tickets had been sold for the Rally for the Republic, being held in Minneapolis, which seeks to bring together activists who oppose war, government regulation, immigration, taxes, the Federal Reserve and outsourcing but support individual liberty, civil liberties and Paul.

The Ronvoys — fleets of buses and vans carrying Paul's loyalists — were to begin arriving Saturday. A few rally-goers planned to walk from Green Bay, Wis., and join Paul for the final miles of their Walk4Freedom.

Paul, a congressman from Lake Jackson who failed in a bid for the Republican presidential nomination, considers the rally a celebration of traditional Republican values of limited government — and a poke in the eye of the GOP. They don't plan to crash the Republican party but to show they and their Campaign for Liberty are not going away.

"No matter how much our message is ignored or ridiculed, as was done in the campaign, no matter how much they did to us, it only energized our grass roots," Paul said.
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Old 08-30-2008, 10:56 PM   #507
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Originally Posted by Boston01 View Post
It is often said that past performance is the best predictor of future returns. My opinion on on all the candidates is based on their actions, not on their beliefs, speeches or promises. Here is my take. I realize it is meaningless to most!

Obama's election to the Illinois state senate and U.S. senate were largely a matter of circumstance. He was handed an opportunity to be elected to the Illinois state senate and screwed the person who gave it to him. His voting record was basically noncommittal on most issues; for example, voting 'Present'. His run for the U.S. senate was won when the two leading candidates were hit with scandal. His associations to Wright, Rezco and others to me show poor judgment. He is a political opportunist. I am not blaming him for taking advantage of opportunity, but that is what it is. He is a 'politician' and nothing more. He has found a following in people looking for hope after being misled for so long.

Biden. Use your own words or at least give credit when you borrow someone elses. Enough said.

McCain. Enough with the POW talk. Those who respect it just DO. There are many who don't. That is just sad. He is experienced and has a history of being bipartisan. The man almost changed parties in the past few years, yet he is accused of being the next Bush. He does not even like Bush!!!! He maybe too old, but he seems pretty lucid.

Palin. Her approval rating in her home state is immense. She took on her own party and got her state back on track. She has her beliefs and doesn't apologize for them. I would rather know where I stand with someone and disagree with them than deal with someone whose beliefs change based on circumstance. So far in this race, she is the only agent of CHANGE that I have seen. The next few months will show how she fares.

My vote as of this moment (subject to change) is with McCain/Palin. If they act nutty, I will vote accordingly. The argument of platform seems irrelevant to me with a check and balance in congress. That was the original idea wasn't it? I happen to vote by issue and I find myself on both sides of the fence depending on the issue. I find it really sad that people are so polarized by party, personality or demographic. For those of us in the U.S., we should vote for right and wrong, not what is hip so enough with the hype on both sides. I just want someone who can actually LEAD us in a better manner than we have been led in a long time. I want someone who puts leadership ahead of politics. That may be idealistic, but I think it is what we should aspire to.
That's a lot of writing to say "I'm a conservative."
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Old 08-30-2008, 11:00 PM   #508
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Originally Posted by anitram View Post
Shocking show of disunity, surely to be covered by the networks....
Come off it.

Ron Paul supporters were never going to rally behind a neo-'conservative' candidate.

There's absolutely nothing surprising or unexpected about this, and it's largely insignificant for the McCain campaign (unfortunately. I wish that Paulites were a bigger block).
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Old 08-30-2008, 11:08 PM   #509
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Or is it that they are a larger bloc than voting indicates, but with a completely disorganized ground game?

The thing is the Paul supporters were/are as rabid and organized on the Internet as the Obama people. They were able to compete financially with Obama who is the best fundraiser out there and they certainly outcompeted McCain & Co.

Interestingly this did not convert into votes. The question that Paulites have to ask themselves is what did the Obama campaign do right to be able to mobilize the young voters on the campuses of Iowa that the Paulites failed to do in basically every state. If anything, they could learn a lot here.
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Old 08-30-2008, 11:11 PM   #510
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Come off it.

Ron Paul supporters were never going to rally behind a neo-'conservative' candidate.
Oh but Hillary voters are going to rally behind a woman who is by every single indicator the complete opposite of Hillary and about a 100th as accomplished.
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Old 08-30-2008, 11:11 PM   #511
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That's a lot of writing to say "I'm a conservative."
I am conservative on some issues, less on others. That is especially true of social issues. I tend to be more liberal on that side of things.

If you really want to know, I also happen to be a registered Democrat. I was an Independent. I have never been a Republican. I am thinking I will go Independent again.
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Old 08-30-2008, 11:17 PM   #512
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One thing I will give to Ron Paul supporters: They're good with puns and wordplay.
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Old 08-30-2008, 11:41 PM   #513
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I am conservative on some issues, less on others. That is especially true of social issues. I tend to be more liberal on that side of things.

If you really want to know, I also happen to be a registered Democrat. I was an Independent. I have never been a Republican. I am thinking I will go Independent again.
You're liberal on the social side of things? A social liberal? And you're going to vote for the guy that has been consistently pro-life for his whole political career, who has consistently held anti-gay positions, who has consistently wanted to limit embryonic stem cell research, etc etc?

That makes a lot of sense.
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Old 08-30-2008, 11:46 PM   #514
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You're liberal on the social side of things? A social liberal? And you're going to vote for the guy that has been consistently pro-life for his whole political career, who has consistently held anti-gay positions, who has consistently wanted to limit embryonic stem cell research, etc etc?

That makes a lot of sense.
I'm curious. Why do you feel the need to attack everyone in here who does not see things your way?

Seriously. What is that about? FYI, we'll be voting for the same candidate, but still. But......You're like a raging lunatic right now, do you know that?
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Old 08-30-2008, 11:49 PM   #515
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The latest nationwide survey, begun Friday afternoon after the McCain announcement of Palin as running mate and completed mid-afternoon today, shows

McCain/Palin at 47%, compared to

45% support for Obama/Biden.

In other words, the race is a dead heat.

What happened to the DNC Convention Bounce

and yes this is just one poll

but still ????

Was/ is Harry Vest right ?


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Old 08-30-2008, 11:51 PM   #516
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Palin overall seems to me to have strong conservative, as opposed to neo-'conservative' credentials.
She's literally a total blank slate on foreign policy at this point, so it seems to me it's too early to draw any conclusions about whether or not she'd support a neoconservative foreign policy agenda as VP. Presumably she's being exhaustively coached on these issues as we speak, but we may have to wait a little while before her stances here become at all clear.
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Old 08-30-2008, 11:52 PM   #517
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I'm curious. Why do you feel the need to attack everyone in here who does not see things your way?

Seriously. What is that about? FYI, we'll be voting for the same candidate, but still. But......You're like a raging lunatic right now, do you know that?
I'm not attacking anyone. If I were speaking those words instead of typing them, I wouldn't be yelling them. I wouldn't be saying them forcefully. I'd be saying them in a firm but calm manner.

And I don't know what you mean by 'everyone'. I don't recall attacking anyone. Certainly not anything that warrants being labeled a 'raging lunatic'.
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Old 08-30-2008, 11:52 PM   #518
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Originally Posted by A_Wanderer View Post
Obama's experience, or lack thereof, is a bigger issue than Palin's.


except that the selection of Palin says no, Obama's experience, or lack thereof, obviously isn't an issue at all.
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Old 08-30-2008, 11:58 PM   #519
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You're liberal on the social side of things? A social liberal? And you're going to vote for the guy that has been
1. consistently pro-life for his whole political career,
2. who has consistently held anti-gay positions,
3. who has consistently wanted to limit embryonic stem cell research, etc etc?
I think you think McCain and W are the same person

they are not

and what you write often is flat out wrong

you are wrong on about 2 and 1/2 on your statements.
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Old 08-31-2008, 12:00 AM   #520
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She's literally a total blank slate on foreign policy at this point, so it seems to me it's too early to draw any conclusions about whether or not she'd support a neoconservative foreign policy agenda as VP. Presumably she's being exhaustively coached on these issues as we speak, but we may have to wait a little while before her stances here become at all clear.


exactly. so this mindless equivocation between her "experience" and Obama's "experience" is just that -- mindless. the idea that a woman will vote for another vagina on an opposite ticket is insulting to women.

we were out in the city again tonight and had drinks and frogurt with friends, and we discussed Palin for over an hour. these are smart people. one has a PhD in political science, the other is the daughter of a sitting (Republican) senator.

we all agreed: it's a media stunt.
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