Oh My God...McCain could win if he picks Palin!!!

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Irvine511 said:
hence, it was a 100% political pick and shows us that John McCain is only interested in winning and not in actually putting the interests of the country, and his true responsibility when it comes to picking a VP, first.

this has shown us that there is no "there" there for all of McCain's blustery talk about honor.
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I missed where Obama was making selfless apolitical decisions with the campaign to win an election.
 
Irvine511 said:
that's silly. has she had cancer 4 times? my grandfather's mother and aunts lived until their late 90s. that didn't stop him from dying of cancer when he was 76.

it's a legitimate concern. and given McCain's various senior moments on the campaign trail this year -- something, to their credit, the Obama campaign has not pounced on -- we have reason to be concerned we'll get Reagan's second term during McCain's first.
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Remember when he outright forgot the right number of states in the US, old people :lol:
 
Oh, right. :hmm: Must be why Romney got passed over, he wussed out on the campaign trail too...
 
The volatile issue of teaching creation science in public schools popped up in the Alaska governor's race this week when Republican Sarah Palin said she thinks creationism should be taught alongside evolution in the state's public classrooms.

alin was answering a question from the moderator near the conclusion of Wednesday night's televised debate on KAKM Channel 7 when she said, "Teach both. You know, don't be afraid of information. Healthy debate is so important, and it's so valuable in our schools. I am a proponent of teaching both."

Her main opponents, Democrat Tony Knowles and Independent Andrew Halcro, said such alternatives to evolution should be kept out of science classrooms. Halcro called such lessons "religious-based" and said the place for them might be a philosophy or sociology class.

The question has divided local school boards in several places around the country and has come up in Alaska before, including once before the state Board of Education in 1993.

The teaching of creationism, which relies on the biblical account of the creation of life, has been ruled by the U.S. Supreme Court as an unconstitutional injection of religion into public education.

Last December, in a widely publicized local case, a federal judge in Pennsylvania threw out a city school board's requirement that "intelligent design" be mentioned briefly in science classes. Intelligent design proposes that biological life is so complex that some kind of intelligence must have shaped it.

In an interview Thursday, Palin said she meant only to say that discussion of alternative views should be allowed to arise in Alaska classrooms:

"I don't think there should be a prohibition against debate if it comes up in class. It doesn't have to be part of the curriculum."

She added that, if elected, she would not push the state Board of Education to add such creation-based alternatives to the state's required curriculum.

Members of the state school board, which sets minimum requirements, are appointed by the governor and confirmed by the Legislature.

"I won't have religion as a litmus test, or anybody's personal opinion on evolution or creationism," Palin said.

Palin has occasionally discussed her lifelong Christian faith during the governor's race but said teaching creationism is nothing she has campaigned about or even given much thought to.

"We're talking about the gas line and PERS/TERS," she said Thursday, referring to the proposed natural gas pipeline and public employee and teacher retirement systems.

The Republican Party of Alaska platform says, in its section on education: "We support giving Creation Science equal representation with other theories of the origin of life. If evolution is taught, it should be presented as only a theory."

The issue of teaching an alternative to evolution has turned into an issue in the current race for governor in Michigan, where Republican Dick DeVos said he wanted to see students exposed to the idea of intelligent design.

In 1993 in Alaska, several Board of Education appointees of Gov. Wally Hickel considered adding creation science to the board's list of recommended scientific concepts. The idea was proposed by a member of the school board who taught at a private Christian school in Fairbanks. It failed on a 3-3 tie, with one school board member absent.

In 2003 a curriculum reform panel recommended leaving evolution out of the state requirements to avoid controversy. Their recommendation was accepted by the state Department of Education, but the state board -- which had the final say -- reinserted the term.

Current state regulations allow local districts to add their own curriculum beyond the minimum state requirements, said Department of Education spokesman Eric Fry. That would arguably include some form of creation science, he said.

"They couldn't promote religion, but it's OK to teach about religion," Fry said.

But efforts to bring such lessons to the science classroom would likely be subject to the same kind of constitutional challenge that blew up into a national controversy in Dover, Pa., last year. After a six-week trial, a Republican judge appointed by President George W. Bush concluded that intelligent design "advanced a particular version of Christianity" and did not belong in class.

Judge John E. Jones III said Darwin's theory of evolution was imperfect. "However, the fact that a scientific theory cannot yet render an explanation on every point should not be used as a pretext to thrust an untestable alternative hypothesis grounded in religion into the science classroom."

Palin said she thought there was value in discussing alternatives.

"It's OK to let kids know that there are theories out there," she said in the interview. "They gain information just by being in a discussion."

That was how she was brought up, she said. Her father was a public school science teacher.

"My dad did talk a lot about his theories of evolution," she said. "He would show us fossils and say, 'How old do you think these are?' "

Asked for her personal views on evolution, Palin said, "I believe we have a creator."

She would not say whether her belief also allowed her to accept the theory of evolution as fact.

"I'm not going to pretend I know how all this came to be," she said.

Knowles was asked Thursday if he believed in a creator and, if so, how he reconciled that with evolution. Campaign spokeswoman Patty Ginsburg responded by e-mail: "Tony wants to stick by what he said last night -- creationism has no place in public school classrooms as an 'alternative' to evolution."

Libertarian gubernatorial candidate Billy Toien, the last candidate to answer the question about evolution at Wednesday's televised debate, posed a question of his own to moderator Michael Carey.

"My question is, who intelligently designed the intelligent designer?"

"I'm only the moderator, not a theologian," said Carey, moving on to the next topic.

Daily News reporter George Bryson contributed to this story. Contact reporter Tom Kizzia at tkizzia@adn.com.
• HALCRO: "I think anything that is religious-based in, in concept, you know, really should, needs to be taught in the proper channel -- philosophy, sociology. I don't think it should be taught as a science."
• KNOWLES: "... The answer is no. The reason why is we don't want politics in our science. We actually want more science in our politics. We don't want to just teach all things because it may be politically correct. We want to teach the best science there is, and there is overwhelming evidence, there's almost incontrovertible evidence that evolution is the science that, that we know. And that's what we should always teach, to never compromise on the principles just because it's politically popular."

• PALIN: "Teach both. You know, don't be afraid of information. "Healthy debate is so important and it's so valuable in our schools. I am a proponent of teaching both. And you know, I say this too as the daughter of a science teacher. Growing up with being so privileged and blessed to be given a lot of information on, on both sides of the subject -- creationism and evolution. It's been a healthy foundation for me. But don't be afraid of information and let kids debate both sides."
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adn.com | elections : 'Creation science' enters the race
 
A_Wanderer said:
:doh:

The only dinosaurs that live with humans are birds.

:wink:
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Tell that to the Creationist museum!

34813158.jpg
 
I already mentioned my grandma earlier in this thread, but I just got back from her and my papa's, and I talked about this more with them. They're socially conservative (pro-life, anti-gay marriage, ) Democrats who were staunch Hillary supporters. After she bowed out, they were leaning towards Obama but also considering McCain. After seeing McCain's pick, they are now fully supporting Obama. They don't care that Palin's with them on abortion and gay marriage. They just want to know how a woman with no national political experience (whether it be campaigning and debating or actual policy making), can possibly be prepared to lead this country. There's 2 evangelical/pro Hillary people who will definitely not be be running to McCain because of this choice. I suspect they're not the only ones.
 
U2isthebest said:
I already mentioned my grandma earlier in this thread, but I just got back from her and my papa's, and I talked about this more with them. They're socially conservative (pro-life, anti-gay marriage, ) Democrats who were staunch Hillary supporters. After she bowed out, they were leaning towards Obama but also considering McCain. After seeing McCain's pick, they are now fully supporting Obama. They don't care that Palin's with them on abortion and gay marriage. They just want to know how a woman with no national political experience (whether it be campaigning and debating or actual policy making), can possibly be prepared to lead this country. There's 2 evangelical/pro Hillary people who will definitely not be be running to McCain because of this choice. I suspect they're not the only ones.
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What was Bill Clintons NATIONAL political experience in 1992?
 
yolland said:
Didn't help Mondale too much. :shrug:
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I don't think anything would have helped Mondale. 1984 was the greatest electoral landslide in US history. 2008 is a much closer election based on the polls all summer long. Obama VS. McCain is not Reagan VS. Mondale. Its also not 1984, its 2008.

But will find out some indications of the positive or negative results of this pick next week.
 
Strongbow said:
What was Bill Clintons NATIONAL political experience in 1992?
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They were well aware that Bill Clinton had no national governing experience in 1992. However, they supported him because of the way he behaved and the campaign he ran during the primary and general election process. He had debated and campaigned on a national level, and they saw that he had the positions and policy goals that they felt were best in terms of the economy, health care, social security and other issues that concerned them. To them (and me) that also counts as national experience because Clinton spent months on the road during the campaign talking about where he stood on the issues and his policy goals. Also, Clinton is a political science major and a lawyer well versed in the Constitution. That is one of the major qualifiers to show how ready one is to lead (being well-versed in the Constitution, not necessarily being a lawyer.) That's not to say that we haven't had good presidents without law degrees, but a law degree does serve a great purpose in a country founded and established on a legal document. They were confident that he was ready to be president at that point. Sarah Palin has very few positions or policy ideas on many of the major issues that are concerning voters right now. She certainly won't be able to prove in 66 days that'd she able and ready to be Commander in Chief should McCain die in office.
 
anitram said:
Harry have you watched Cafferty read out his e-mails and the comments on his blog today?

He said he was surprised that it was mostly negative.

Seems like a lot of Hillary voters, older pro-choice women offended that McCain thinks they are so stupid. A lot of the commentary ran along the lines of "Hillary didn't put 18 million cracks in the ceiling for this unaccomplished pro-life, gun-toting Creationist woman to ride her coat-tails." Maybe harsh, but then I feel a lot of this crowd has been harsh for most of the primary.

If McCain is smart, he knows these women won't and can't be won over. If he thinks they're ripe for the picking, think again.
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Cafferty claimed that McCain was DONE, stick a fork in him. He's another liberal commentator who skews his air time towards pushing up the negatives of people he is opposed to.
 
Strongbow said:
Cafferty claimed that McCain was DONE, stick a fork in him. He's another liberal commentator who skews his air time towards pushing up the negatives of people he is opposed to.
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As did most of your party and the right blogosphere during the primaries. Please don't pretend otherwise.

And Cafferty has never been liberal, LOL.
 
I think it is interesting that both Strongbow and Harry Vest have made the right predictions in spite of being in minority opinion.
 
U2isthebest said:
They were well aware that Bill Clinton had no national governing experience in 1992. However, they supported him because of the way he behaved and the campaign he ran during the primary and general election process. He had debated and campaigned on a national level, and they saw that he had the positions and policy goals that they felt were best in terms of the economy, health care, social security and other issues that concerned them. To them (and me) that also counts as national experience because Clinton spent months on the road during the campaign talking about where he stood on the issues and his policy goals. Also, Clinton is a political science major and a lawyer well versed in the Constitution. That is one of the major qualifiers to show how ready one is to lead (being well-versed in the Constitution, not necessarily being a lawyer.) That's not to say that we haven't had good presidents without law degrees, but a law degree does serve a great purpose in a country founded and established on a legal document. They were confident that he was ready to be president at that point. Sarah Palin has very few positions or policy ideas on many of the major issues that are concerning voters right now. She certainly won't be able to prove in 66 days that'd she able and ready to be Commander in Chief should McCain die in office.
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Well, we'll soon find out. She is closer to being Bill Clinton in terms of experience than either Obama, Biden, or McCain. She is the only person on either ticket that is actually from outside Washington, something that even Barack Obama claimed was important in his speach Thursday night.
 
anitram said:
As did most of your party and the right blogosphere during the primaries. Please don't pretend otherwise.

And Cafferty has never been liberal, LOL.
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Well, he definitely skews his little show in favor of the Democrats.
 
anitram said:
Now STING will bring up Reagan Democrats - this is not who I'm talking about. I'm talking about the hardcore feminist crowd standing behind Hillary.
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Hardcore feminist are a minority, even among Hillary supporters. Sorry, but its really difficult to argue that McCain is going to do worse among women voters now that he has one running with him. In a close a election where one or two states could decide the election, McCain might just win by having Palin on the ticket.
 
Strongbow said:
Hardcore feminist are a minority, even among Hillary supporters. Sorry, but its really difficult to argue that McCain is going to do worse among women voters now that he has one running with him. In a close a election where one or two states could decide the election, McCain might just win by having Palin on the ticket.
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And in a lot of those close states, African Americans and Latinos are just as likely to be the deciding factor. The AA voters will show up in unprecedented numbers if the primaries are any indication - watch those numbers to grow even higher.

McCain is about to get close to zero of the AA vote and trails by nearly 50 points in the Latino vote. Quite a more significant difference than a small proportion of Hillary's female voters, the large majority of whom is voting for Obama.
 
I'm loving this pick. :hyper:

I just went to dinner with a couple, they are very moderates, they've been on the fence for awhile but recenlty decided on McCain. His pick changed their mind. They thought it showed poor judgement. And they hated her no abortion for even rape and incest, and her creation needs to be taught in school stances.

:applaud:
 
anitram said:
And in a lot of those close states, African Americans and Latinos are just as likely to be the deciding factor. The AA voters will show up in unprecedented numbers if the primaries are any indication - watch those numbers to grow even higher.

McCain is about to get close to zero of the AA vote and trails by nearly 50 points in the Latino vote. Quite a more significant difference than a small proportion of Hillary's female voters, the large majority of whom is voting for Obama.
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Women are a much larger voting block than African Americans and Latinos combined. Most African Americans live in deeply red South Eastern States where even if every eligible African American voter voted, they would still lose the election in that particular state.

Who are the swing voters in Ohio and Pennsylvania? Its not African Americans and Latinos. The reason that Obama lost these states was Reagan Democrats, Blue Collar Democrats and Women.

Also, Obama's little comment about Western Pennsylvania's registered Democrats clinging to guns and God when their in trouble did not go down well in that part of the state. They may decide to stick it to Obama with a Women running with McCain who definitely shares their passion for Guns and God.:wink:
 
Women are a larger block, but most women are not waffling, it is a small overall percentage.

Did you know there are 600,000 registered AA voters in Florida who did not cast a vote in 2004? Additionally, how many tens of thousands have registered in this last year? This block alone can have a huge, huge impact.

Why do you only treat OH and PA as swing states? What happened to CO, NM, NV? The Latino votes don't matter out there?
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:
I'm loving this pick. :hyper:

I just went to dinner with a couple, they are very moderates, they've been on the fence for awhile but recenlty decided on McCain. His pick changed their mind. They thought it showed poor judgement. And they hated her no abortion for even rape and incest, and her creation needs to be taught in school stances.

:applaud:
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My sister, a life long Democrat who supported Obama over Hillary just called to tell me that she is now considering McCain/Palin.
 
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