OH God Noooooooooo....I cannot support Wesly Clark

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Dreadsox

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Michael Moore to Wesley Clark: Run!


A Citizen?s Appeal to a General in a Time of War (at Home)

September 12, 2003

Dear General Wesley Clark,

I've been meaning to write to you for some time. Two days after the Oscars, when I felt very alone and somewhat frightened by the level of hatred toward me for daring to suggest that we were being led into war for "fictitious reasons," one person stuck his neck out and came to my defense on national television.

And that person was you.

Aaron Brown had just finished interviewing me by satellite on CNN, and I had made a crack about me being "the only non-general allowed on CNN all week." He ended the interview and then turned to you, as you were sitting at the desk with him. He asked you what you thought of this crazy guy, Michael Moore. And, although we were still in Week One of the war, you boldly said that my dissent was necessary and welcome, and you pointed out that I was against Bush and his "policies," not the kids in the service. I sat in Flint with the earpiece still in my ear and I was floored -- a GENERAL standing up for me and, in effect, for all the millions who were opposed to the war but had been bullied into silence.

Since that night, I have spent a lot of time checking you out. And what I've learned about you corresponds to my experience with you back in March. You seem to be a man of integrity. You seem not afraid to speak the truth. I liked your answer when you were asked your position on gun control: ?If you are the type of person who likes assault weapons, there is a place for you -- the United States Army. We have them.?

In addition to being first in your class at West Point, a four star general from Arkansas, and the former Supreme Commander of NATO -- enough right there that should give pause to any peace-loving person -- I have discovered that...

1. You oppose the Patriot Act and would fight the expansion of its powers.

2. You are firmly pro-choice.

3. You filed an amicus brief with the Supreme Court in support of the University of Michigan's affirmative action case.

4. You would get rid of the Bush tax "cut" and make the rich pay their fair share.

5. You respect the views of our allies and want to work with them and with the rest of the international community.

6. And you oppose war. You have said that war should always be the "last resort" and that it is military men such as yourself who are the most for peace because it is YOU and your soldiers who have to do the dying. You find something unsettling about a commander-in-chief who dons a flight suit and pretends to be Top Gun, a stunt that dishonored those who have died in that flight suit in the service of their country.

General Clark, last night I finally got to meet you in person. I would like to share with others what I said to you privately: You may be the person who can defeat George W. Bush in next year's election.

This is not an endorsement. For me, it's too early for that. I have liked Howard Dean (in spite of his flawed positions in support of some capital punishment, his grade "A" rating from the NRA, and his opposition to cutting the Pentagon budget). And Dennis Kucinich is so committed to all the right stuff. We need candidates in this race who will say the things that need to be said, to push the pathetically lame Democratic Party into having a backbone -- or get out of the way and let us have a REAL second party on the ballot.

But right now, for the sake and survival of our very country, we need someone who is going to get The Job done, period. And that job, no matter whom I speak to across America -- be they leftie Green or conservative Democrat, and even many disgusted Republicans -- EVERYONE is of one mind as to what that job is:

Bush Must Go.

This is war, General, and it's Bush & Co.'s war on us. It's their war on the middle class, the poor, the environment, their war on women and their war against anyone around the world who doesn't accept total American domination. Yes, it's a war -- and we, the people, need a general to beat back those who have abused our Constitution and our basic sense of decency.

The General vs. the Texas Air National Guard deserter! I want to see that debate, and I know who the winner is going to be.

The other night, when you were on Bill Maher's show, he began by reading to you a quote from Howard Dean where he (Dean) tried to run away from the word "liberal." Maher said to you, so, General, do you want to run away from that word? Without missing a beat, you said "No!" and you reminded everyone that America was founded as a "liberal democracy." The audience went wild with applause.

That is what we have needed for a long time on our side -- guts. I am sure there are things you and I don't see eye to eye on, but now is the time for all good people from the far left to the middle of the road to bury the damn hatchet and get together behind someone who is not only good on the issues but can beat George W. Bush. And where I come from in the Midwest, General, I know you are the kind of candidate that the average American will vote for.

Michael Moore likes a general? I never thought I'd write these words. But desperate times call for desperate measures. I want to know more about you. I want your voice heard. I would like to see you in these debates. Then let the chips fall where they may -- and we'll all have a better idea of what to do. If you sit it out, then I think we all know what we are left with.

I am asking everyone I know to send an email to you now to encourage you to run, even if they aren't sure they would vote for you. (Wesley Clark's email address is: info@leadershipforamerica.org). None of us truly know how we will vote five months from now or a year from now. But we do know that this race needs a jolt -- and Bush needs to know that there is one person he won't be able to Dukakisize.

Take the plunge, General Clark. At the very least, the nation needs to hear what you know about what was really behind this invasion of Iraq and your fresh ideas of how we can live in a more peaceful world. Yes, your country needs you to perform one more act of brave service -- to help defeat an enemy from within, at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, an address that used to belong to "we, the people."

Yours,

Michael Moore

Lottery # 275, U.S. military draft, 1972

Conscientious Objector applicant
 
I'm like Moore, or should I say I sort of like him: I don't know anything else about Clark besides what I just read in this letter. That being said, I think I already like his chances against Bush. Watching that debate would be very entertaining indeed.
 
If Dean gets Clark for Vice President I'm 100% on board. But if Clark runs for President then I'm with him.
Clark in my eyes is looking like a saviour to me against Bush, I don't know why I just got that feeling.
If all else fails I'll vote for Dean.

Moore sucks by the way I just don't like his demeanor, this is coming from a moderate liberal.
 
I am not done being sick. It is forcing me to reevaluate where I thought I stand.

And Deep, if you are defending Michael Moore, then I am going to reevaluate even harder:madspit:
 
Scarletwine

If you were to wake up some morning and find that Rumsfeld agreed with you on something as important as this, how would you feel?

HEHE
 
Dreadsox:

defenetly a shocking experience if somebody you absolutely disslike agrees with you. But since most of the time there is no black and white, no 100% right and 100% wrong it's not really surprising :)

Klaus

p.s. no i don't stop being vegetarian just because Adolf Hitler was vegetarian too ;)
 
Dread, I was a little surprised at this myself. The way I look at it just because a political wacko or whatever is supporting a candidate really isn't a reason I can't. I honestly don't know alot about Michael Moore except for his speech at the Oscars. Since I personally don't want another four years of Bush I'm still hoping Clark will run. I'd rather have him in the White House, no matter who else is supporting him. It's not like it's the Klan or someone odious like that, or any other not-so-friendly local Dixiecrat. If it were one of these damn Dixiecrats...........geez, I know how you feel.
Dixiecrats.......:mad: :censored: :censored: :censored:
 
I don't know much about Clark, but he is definitely eloquent (unlike some people), and a man of integrity who served his country, and continues to serve it. If he was on the bill as VP, say with Dean, I think that might be a force to be reckoned with.

One thing I will agree with Moore here is that Bush must go. I don't care who replaces him, as I doubt anybody could be worse.
 
You know how I feel. :)

Screw Dean. Clark's the man.

_______________________________
General Wesley Clark for President
DraftWesleyClark.com
DraftClark2004.com
 
Dreadsox, I would not evaluate an opinion of Clark on the basis of how an "outside" view interprets him. Certainly, what makes Clark so appealing to many people is that he appeals to a broad Democratic base, not just "New" Democrats or "Old" Democrats.

If you dislike Michael Moore, I can certainly understand that, but I wouldn't evaluate my opinion on the basis of what Moore said. Evaluate, rather, on what Clark says (or implies) himself.

Melon
 
anitram said:
One thing I will agree with Moore here is that Bush must go. I don't care who replaces him, as I doubt anybody could be worse.

Come visit California next year, pick up a driver's license and register to vote. You can then pick your anybody-but-Bush Democrat in the 2004 election.
 
Dreadsox said:
Scarletwine

If you were to wake up some morning and find that Rumsfeld agreed with you on something as important as this, how would you feel?

HEHE

I can understand where you are coming from , but it would never happen. Then I don't understand why you dislike MM? If your only contact was the AA i'd understand it but I'm sure you've researched him more before making an opinion. I think he comes across as a reasonable thinking American in BFC.

Also on another thread you said you may yet support GWB, how can you even consider that with shis stinking domestic policies? Clean Air Act = lowering standards for rebuilding plants, Healthy Forests = logging in previously forbidden national forests, I could and will go on aand on and on if you like.

You are the thinking type of person that the WORLD needs now.
 
nbcrusader said:
Come visit California next year, pick up a driver's license and register to vote. You can then pick your anybody-but-Bush Democrat in the 2004 election.

I don't know where you got the impression I'd vote for a Democrat (ie. a Republican in disguise).

But thanks for the tip. Were I not going down to Africa next year, maybe I'd fly out to LA, just you know, for shits and giggles.
 
Scarletwine said:


Also on another thread you said you may yet support GWB, how can you even consider that with shis stinking domestic policies? Clean Air Act = lowering standards for rebuilding plants, Healthy Forests = logging in previously forbidden national forests, I could and will go on aand on and on if you like.

You are the thinking type of person that the WORLD needs now.

It all very much depends on who the nominee is.....That is all I can say for now. Until the field clears a little more I am still leaning towards GW.

Don't worry people, I have worked through my emotions on this. I am just afraid that MM will hurt Clark's chances. Which in reality, I am not convinced he is running for President, but VP.
 
womanfish said:
You know how I feel. :)

Screw Dean. Clark's the man.

_______________________________
General Wesley Clark for President
DraftWesleyClark.com
DraftClark2004.com

No really...tell us what you tink:wave:
 
verte76 said:
Dread, I was a little surprised at this myself. The way I look at it just because a political wacko or whatever is supporting a candidate really isn't a reason I can't. I honestly don't know alot about Michael Moore except for his speech at the Oscars. Dixiecrats.......:mad: :censored: :censored: :censored:

I take real offense at your definition of MM as a POLITICAL WACKO.

I think if you would take the time to watch BFC you would find that he really is a regular redneck , loud mouth. Only he has a more progressive agenda, especially because a 6 yr old killed another 6 yr old in his home town. Same to DSX. watch then decide.
 
I support a Kerry-Clark ticket, or a Clark-Kerry ticket. I respect Dean as a democrat, and i think he'd of course be better than Bush, but i still don't think he'd make a good president.
 
60 Minutes did a good segment on MM recently as well. It was interesting.....

Not enough to convince me Verte is wrong however!!!!

HEHEHE!!!!!
 
i loathe michael moore but i'm not going to let that stop me from possibly supporting general clark.
 
Scarletwine said:


I take real offense at your definition of MM as a POLITICAL WACKO.

I think if you would take the time to watch BFC you would find that he really is a regular redneck , loud mouth. Only he has a more progressive agenda, especially because a 6 yr old killed another 6 yr old in his home town. Same to DSX. watch then decide.

Oops! I goofed! I didn't mean to specifically refer to MM as a "political wacko". I meant more in the vein of *other* people who support my candidate not affecting who I decide to support. Like I said, I don't know anything about Michael Moore and I have no business declaring that he's a "political wacko". The word "wacko" is one of those grey words that really doesn't mean anything to me. It can mean funny as heck, such as "are you going to use your wacko restaurant menu sign"?
 
Screaming Flower said:
i loathe michael moore but i'm not going to let that stop me from possibly supporting general clark.

Why do you loathe him?

Of course he is a plebian loud-mouth man. A particular burr in the Politrats shoe. But have you read his books or seen his movies? Or are you just getting your opinion from the news.

This is my challenge to all the FYMer's read it or SHUT UP. I dare to come back with intelligent rebuttals, or better yet facts, of his remarks.

COBS
 
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The only intelligent response I can thing of is....

He sucks.....

Nah nah nah nah

He sucks!!!!
 
Scarletwine, I'm definitely getting BFC and watching it. I don't watch that many movies because of limited access to the right technology. Can you say "must borrow DVD player since I don't own one"? I'll have access to one in the very near future however.
 
BFC, while it had its factual issues, did raise some very, very important questions about both the gun culture and the culture of fear in the USA, particularly in comparison to the rest of the western world. It is not a perfect film, nor is it really a documentary in a true sense, but it most certainly doesn't suck.
 
anitram said:
BFC, while it had its factual issues, did raise some very, very important questions about both the gun culture and the culture of fear in the USA, particularly in comparison to the rest of the western world. It is not a perfect film, nor is it really a documentary in a true sense, but it most certainly doesn't suck.

I never said the film sucks....
 
I'd give anything to see this Bowling for Columbine. I dont think anyone has a clue if or when it will ever be released here. I'd even import it, but we are in a different zone.

It really shouldn't be a pre-requisite for anyone to have seen any movie or read any book to be able to form an intelligent and learned opinion. Apart from specifics to any book or movie, its not essential in discussing an individual in a broader sense.
 

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