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Old 02-05-2007, 05:44 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




do you really think Zell Miller is worth a damn?

come on -- i can think of some Replublicans worth a damn, are our conservatives in FYM so partisan that they can't find a single democrat they like?
I named Zell because he's my favorite.

There may indeed be other Democrats I like, but each and every one of them would be a conservative.

And that's the key for me; I'm conservative first, then Republican.

I do think that you calling the 3 or 4 of us conservatives "partisan" is kinda funny considering how many liberal free your minders are every bit as partisan.

Why don't you ask Verte that question; Verte was the one who said that Rudy was the only good Republican.
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Old 02-05-2007, 06:04 PM   #102
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Originally posted by Irvine511




do you really think Zell Miller is worth a damn?

come on -- i can think of some Replublicans worth a damn, are our conservatives in FYM so partisan that they can't find a single democrat they like?
Of coarse it's tongue in cheek. There are many retired or ex-Democrats like Zell Miller, David Boren and of coarse Ronald Ray-gun, as Bono called him. I've voted for Evan Bayh for Gov & the Senate. In addition, several of the new House and Senate members may prove to "be worth a damn."

Curious, why only question the conservatives about partisanship and not Verte76? After all, out of the thousands of elected Republicans, Verte76 finds but one "worth a damn." It's not like my name is U2Republican or something.
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Old 02-05-2007, 06:07 PM   #103
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


I do think that you calling the 3 or 4 of us conservatives "partisan" is kinda funny considering how many liberal free your minders are every bit as partisan.

Why don't you ask Verte that question; Verte was the one who said that Rudy was the only good Republican.
I took so long fartin' around and typing you beat me to the question.
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Old 02-05-2007, 06:30 PM   #104
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


That would be a short book; it would only have one page and 3 words:

Zell Miller, Retired.
If you can give me a liberal Republican that would go to the Democratic Nominating Convention
and rail and rant against the Republican nominee

than you may have a case
that Zell is worth a damn

but for now
he seems to be just a useless bag of sh*t
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Old 02-05-2007, 06:37 PM   #105
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that just reminded be...wasn't there a democrat from a southern state, that went to the Republican National Convention? I can't remember his name, but I do remember fearing for my life. His speech scared the mess outta me. You'd think that Kerry had bullied him as a kid or something. he was bashing democrats too!

as for being partisan, one could say that i am, but i'm really not. i'm issue minded, and to be honest, neither party really gets it, IMHO. it just so happens i will usually vote democratic because i'm hoping for progress, and an evolution of thought that comes with change. and sometimes i feel even outcasted from the democratic party. there would be an even shorter book written by me entitled: Politicans Worth a Damn.
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Old 02-06-2007, 07:06 AM   #106
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I just saw a blog titled 'Gorebama'. Dream ticket, anyone?
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Old 02-06-2007, 07:11 AM   #107
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Originally posted by INDY500


Of coarse it's tongue in cheek. There are many retired or ex-Democrats like Zell Miller, David Boren and of coarse Ronald Ray-gun, as Bono called him. I've voted for Evan Bayh for Gov & the Senate. In addition, several of the new House and Senate members may prove to "be worth a damn."

Curious, why only question the conservatives about partisanship and not Verte76? After all, out of the thousands of elected Republicans, Verte76 finds but one "worth a damn." It's not like my name is U2Republican or something.


because, by definition, liberals are capable of nuanced and sophisticated thinking, so i thusly took verte76's comments as mildly in jest; with a conservative, and their biologically-based inabilities to deal with complexity and ambiguity, one must verify their abilities to handle nuance and subtlety, as well as humor.
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Old 02-06-2007, 07:15 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
I do think that you calling the 3 or 4 of us conservatives "partisan" is kinda funny considering how many liberal free your minders are every bit as partisan.


why are there only 3 or 4 of you?

there used to be more. where have they gone? why don't they stick around to make arguments? why do they flee when challenged?

is it harder to be a conservative in 2007 than it was in 2004? have the arguments been disproved? are the conservatives in disarray? has Bush destroyed their credibility? do conservatives need to, "go away and dream it all up again?"
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Old 02-06-2007, 08:08 AM   #109
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What the?


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Old 02-06-2007, 08:34 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




because, by definition, liberals are capable of nuanced and sophisticated thinking, so i thusly took verte76's comments as mildly in jest; with a conservative, and their biologically-based inabilities to deal with complexity and ambiguity, one must verify their abilities to handle nuance and subtlety, as well as humor.
Dayum, them thar's some might fancy big wurds.
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Old 02-06-2007, 08:48 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally posted by INDY500


Dayum, them thar's some might fancy big wurds.


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Old 02-06-2007, 10:15 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




why are there only 3 or 4 of you?

there used to be more. where have they gone? why don't they stick around to make arguments? why do they flee when challenged?

is it harder to be a conservative in 2007 than it was in 2004? have the arguments been disproved? are the conservatives in disarray? has Bush destroyed their credibility? do conservatives need to, "go away and dream it all up again?"
I don't think the reason is any of that.

The truth is that many liberals in this forum have a superiority complex; they consistently imply that if someone doesn't agree with the left, that person is intellectually inferior.

Or maybe it's the whole "safety in numbers" thing. Go and try to participate in a forum in which 98 percent of the members are conservatives, and you'll know how it feels. Of course, nothing made us go into the FYM forum; at the beginning we think our opinions actually matter and will make an impact. But that's not the case at all, and it never will be. After a few years, it becomes an albatross around our necks. It's very heavy to be so outnumbered for oh-so-long.

Or maybe it's because all the arguing gets to a person and makes him feel, well, what's the word - ugghhh.

All those things combine to make up my reason for maintaining a much lower profile than I used to, and not getting involved in heavy discussions anymore.

I don't know why I'm still around. I keep thinking I'll quit; if Indy and the other 2 or 3 would agree to quit, I would also.
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Old 02-06-2007, 10:18 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




because, by definition, liberals are capable of nuanced and sophisticated thinking, so i thusly took verte76's comments as mildly in jest; with a conservative, and their biologically-based inabilities to deal with complexity and ambiguity, one must verify their abilities to handle nuance and subtlety, as well as humor.
What a crock of crap. A funny crock of crap, but a crock of crap nevertheless.

You see, I do understand humor.
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Old 02-06-2007, 10:31 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest



The truth is that many liberals in this forum have a superiority complex; they consistently imply that if someone doesn't agree with the left, that person is intellectually inferior.

Or maybe it's the whole "safety in numbers" thing. Go and try to participate in a forum in which 98 percent of the members are conservatives, and you'll know how it feels.
I think there is a victim mentality by some in here, and I think it comes from being outnumbered rather than superiority complexes. I am the minority in many places, I actually find it more stimulating.
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Old 02-06-2007, 10:33 AM   #115
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest

Or maybe it's the whole "safety in numbers" thing. Go and try to participate in a forum in which 98 percent of the members are conservatives, and you'll know how it feels.


to be totally honest, i sometimes pick positions, or particular points within a position, that are unpopular so i can feel more engaged rather than one of many voices (see the HIV/condom thread). i find that the less disagreement there is in here, the less likely i am to post, so if this were a 50/50 forum, i'd probably be here more often.

that, and the fact that my job has been kicking my arse since October.

and i will stick to the caveat that, in many ways, this is a conservative forum. economically, it is generally conservative (socialists are mocked in here), and religiously it is quite conservative (i'd say the majority of posters in here are self-identified Christians and Muslims are routinely mocked).

which is pretty much what U2 is as band, and thusly reflected in their fans: religious social justice crusaders.
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Old 02-06-2007, 10:41 AM   #116
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


I think there is a victim mentality by some in here, and I think it comes from being outnumbered rather than superiority complexes. I am the minority in many places, I actually find it more stimulating.
I've seen so many examples of "I can't believe someone would be stupid enough to believe that", I couldn't even begin to count them.

Heck, we see at least one example of the superiority complex in this thread.
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Old 02-06-2007, 10:47 AM   #117
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What a crock of crap. A funny crock of crap, but a crock of crap nevertheless.

You see, I do understand humor.


okay, i was joking, but on a serious note ...

one thing that strikes me about a genuine thought difference between liberals and conservatives is how they process information. bear with me here. for example, in my experience, a conservative is more likely to accept something as a source of truth and then see how information measures up to the pre-selected source. so, if you believe the Bible as a source of inerrant truth, most issues/information are processed through that filter. for a conservative, tradition and authority -- from whever you might find it -- matter. traditional values are what's known, so they must be adhered to.

for a liberal, not so much. opinions are derived through comparisons, how is one thing like another or how is one thing different from another. there isn't as much of a central organizing principle. and this is reflected in political discourse -- George Bush had "convictions" whereas Kerry was a "flip-flopper."

does that seem fair to say?

note that none of this is predicated upon intelligence, or saying that it's better to see ambiguity than it is to stick to convictions.
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Old 02-06-2007, 10:58 AM   #118
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




okay, i was joking, but on a serious note ...

one thing that strikes me about a genuine thought difference between liberals and conservatives is how they process information. bear with me here. for example, in my experience, a conservative is more likely to accept something as a source of truth and then see how information measures up to the pre-selected source. so, if you believe the Bible as a source of inerrant truth, most issues/information are processed through that filter.
I would agree with that for the most part.

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
for a conservative, tradition and authority -- from whever you might find it -- matter. traditional values are what's known, so they must be adhered to.
That's not always the case. For example, yes, I do place no authority higher than God as revealed in the Bible. But it really has nothing to do with tradition. There are some "traditions" within the church that I very much take opposition to because I feel it doesn't line up with scripture. So, this stance of mine is a perfect example of the fact that in my life, your first point (filter) trumps your second point (tradition).

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
note that none of this is predicated upon intelligence, or saying that it's better to see ambiguity than it is to stick to convictions.
That's how you approach it. Of the many times I've argued with you, I don't know that I've ever felt that you were calling me stupid. However, many of the people in this forum do not view things that way. To them, the conservative is an idiot.
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Old 02-06-2007, 11:20 AM   #119
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I've seen so many examples of "I can't believe someone would be stupid enough to believe that", I couldn't even begin to count them.

Heck, we see at least one example of the superiority complex in this thread.
There are times where I'm like "I can't imagine someone believing that" as are you and everyone else. That's just fact.

Have I ever called anyone stupid? Have I ever said their view isn't valid? No, for we don't all fit in the box to which you throw us.

I for the most part won't cross any of those lines unless I see someone constantly posting without some kind of facts, evidence, etc to back up their claim or opinion.
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Old 02-06-2007, 12:29 PM   #120
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There are times where I'm like "I can't imagine someone believing that" as are you and everyone else. That's just fact.
That's not the attitude I am describing. What I said was:

I've seen so many examples of "I can't believe someone would be stupid enough to believe that", I couldn't even begin to count them.

The "stupid" part is where the superiority complex comes into play. I can't imagine why anyone would believe in abortion rights, but I don't think it makes someone
stupid" for disagreeing with me.

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Have I ever called anyone stupid? Have I ever said their view isn't valid?
I don't know if you've ever called anyone stupid. I don't think you've ever called me stupid.

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
No, for we don't all fit in the box to which you throw us.
I didn't throw all of you into any box. I specifically said "many".
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