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Old 09-06-2007, 03:19 PM   #821
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Originally posted by 2861U2


Ok, fair enough. Allow me to correct it, then.

Ask most college students (especially black ones) who don't know anything about politics who they are supporting. When they say Obama, ask them why.

Actually, you dont have to do that. I've encountered plenty of them here at school, so take my word for it. People don't care. They like Obama because his black. There's no getting around it.
You are making yourself sound quite... well I won't say it.

Ask any person who doesn't know about politics who they are voting for and why, and it will come down to image or because their parents told them, or some other stupid issue.

That doesn't prove your point. Actually it just proves you have no point.
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Old 09-06-2007, 03:31 PM   #822
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Originally posted by 2861U2
Actually, you dont have to do that. I've encountered plenty of them here at school, so take my word for it. People don't care. They like Obama because his black. There's no getting around it.


is this any better or worse than those who voted for W on the basis of his being a "Christian" like them?
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Old 09-06-2007, 03:44 PM   #823
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Originally posted by Irvine511




is this any better or worse than those who voted for W on the basis of his being a "Christian" like them?
In that case, I have a problem with those folks as well. You shouldn't vote for someone just because he is a Christian. You need to look at their policies.

That being said, at least by voting for someone because of their religion, you get a sense of their values and beliefs that go along with the religion. I mean, if I voted for someone based on their Christianity, I would have a good sense of what their values are regarding things like gay marriage, abortion, etc. But of course there are exceptions. Voting for someone because he is black offers no such insight into their beliefs.
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Old 09-06-2007, 03:46 PM   #824
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Originally posted by 2861U2

They like Obama because his black. There's no getting around it.
First of all, that's debatable.

But even if we were to take you at face value, so??? Are we going to start legislating people's reasons for voting? Some Christians will only vote for a Christian. There's no getting around it. Some people won't vote for Hillary because she is a woman. Are you going to be whining about these contingents any time soon or are you more of a selective outrage kinda guy?
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Old 09-06-2007, 03:48 PM   #825
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Originally posted by 2861U2

That being said, at least by voting for someone because of their religion, you get a sense of their values and beliefs that go along with the religion. I mean, if I voted for someone based on their Christianity, I would have a good sense of what their values are regarding things like gay marriage, abortion, etc. But of course there are exceptions. Voting for someone because he is black offers no such insight into their beliefs.
Really? You really think that if you were a black male in the inner city, that you might not want to vote for someone who is black because his colour offers insights into his views on issues that are important to minorities? Like affordable housing, affirmative action, and so on?
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Old 09-06-2007, 03:49 PM   #826
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Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2


In that case, I have a problem with those folks as well. You shouldn't vote for someone just because he is a Christian. You need to look at their policies.

That being said, at least by voting for someone because of their religion, you get a sense of their values and beliefs that go along with the religion. I mean, if I voted for someone based on their Christianity, I would have a good sense of what their values are regarding things like gay marriage, abortion, etc. But of course there are exceptions. Voting for someone because he is black offers no such insight into their beliefs.
What a joke. Someone saying they are a "christian" means nothing to me. I find most of the "christian" right to be godless and most unchrist like.

But given your failed logic, someone could easily say, you know what I've never had a president who knew what it felt like to be black in America, it would be nice to have one.

That being said, it still doesn't mean "far too many Americans like him only because he is new, young and black" is a true statement.
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Old 09-06-2007, 03:56 PM   #827
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar



But given your failed logic, someone could easily say, you know what I've never had a president who knew what it felt like to be black in America, it would be nice to have one.
And do you agree that that is a bad thing? You are the one always telling everyone to look at policies and not image. You can't say that "I want a black president just because we've never had one" is a good thing.

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
That being said, it still doesn't mean "far too many Americans like him only because he is new, young and black" is a true statement.
By "far too many Americans" I mean that if even one person thinks like that, it's a bad thing. BonoVox, if I had a dollar for everytime I have read a post by you telling us to look at policies and not image, I'd be a rich man. Please don't tell me that voting for someone based on anything BUT policies is a good thing. Be consistent...
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Old 09-06-2007, 04:05 PM   #828
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Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2


And do you agree that that is a bad thing? You are the one always telling everyone to look at policies and not image. You can't say that "I want a black president just because we've never had one" is a good thing.



By "far too many Americans" I mean that if even one person thinks like that, it's a bad thing. BonoVox, if I had a dollar for everytime I have read a post by you telling us to look at policies and not image, I'd be a rich man. Please don't tell me that voting for someone based on anything BUT policies is a good thing. Be consistent...
Wow, you sure miss a lot of points. And this one went flying over your head.

Of course it's not a good thing.

But you started this whole thing by showing joy that he won't run again, and then said the only reason anyone would vote for him is image. But every point you made could be said about any other canidate. So it just comes off as hatred for Obama.
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Old 09-06-2007, 04:07 PM   #829
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Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2

That being said, at least by voting for someone because of their religion, you get a sense of their values and beliefs that go along with the religion. I mean, if I voted for someone based on their Christianity, I would have a good sense of what their values are regarding things like gay marriage, abortion, etc. But of course there are exceptions. Voting for someone because he is black offers no such insight into their beliefs.


what if i were to vote on someone based upon their life experiences -- and being a black man, or a gay man is as shaping to one's values as being from any religion.

one's experience as a minority is as profoundly shaping as any religion.
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Old 09-06-2007, 04:53 PM   #830
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Originally posted by 2861U2
That being said, at least by voting for someone because of their religion, you get a sense of their values and beliefs that go along with the religion. I mean, if I voted for someone based on their Christianity, I would have a good sense of what their values are regarding things like gay marriage, abortion, etc. But of course there are exceptions. Voting for someone because he is black offers no such insight into their beliefs.
Neither does religion.

I'm Christian and I am pro-gay marriage (because not to be is hate) and pro-abortion (personally anti-, but it's going to happen either way, and we need a safe method). Probably not what you thought.

From your post in the Christianity thread, though, your view on religion is waaaaay out of whack anyway.
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Old 09-06-2007, 05:44 PM   #831
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I love that both progressive and conservative believers are happy to state that their own biases are more in line with God than their opposites.
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Old 09-06-2007, 05:56 PM   #832
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I love that both progressive and conservative believers are happy to state that their own biases are more in line with God than their opposites.
God wanted gays to live in an oppressive society, duh. Look it up.
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Old 09-06-2007, 08:09 PM   #833
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Tales From the Obama’s Bedroom

By Katharine Q. Seelye

When is some information too much information?



In an interview with Glamour magazine, Michelle Obama reveals that her husband, Barack, is “snore-y and stinky” when he wakes up in the morning.
perhaps she'll do better in her next marriage.
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Old 09-06-2007, 08:28 PM   #834
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Originally posted by 2861U2
I know that far, far too many Americans like him only because he is new, young and black.
Don't forget good-looking. Because that's the girl vote right there.
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Old 09-06-2007, 08:29 PM   #835
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That being said, at least by voting for someone because of their religion, you get a sense of their values and beliefs that go along with the religion.
True. I can get the sense that many Republican Christians value serial marriage and adultery, because they practice it so readily.
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Old 09-07-2007, 12:09 AM   #836
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I do believe there are people out there who are supporting Obama just because he is black. Just like I also believe there are people out there who are supporting Hillary because she is a woman. At the same time, i'm sure there are people out there who are against Obama because he is black or are against Hillary because she is a woman.

I don't think all the Obama hype is soley because he is black. If that were true, then Al Sharpton would have been as popular in 2004 as Obama is now.

That being said, it seems like Barack Obama and also Mitt Romney would not be as popular or well known if it weren't for their looks, height and young age, IMHO. Out of all the candidates who are running or who have ran in this election, all the popular/well-known ones were well known even before the race begin, with the exception of Barack Obama and Mitt Romney. Here is a list of all the well known candidates from both parties and the reason why they are that well known even before the race started:

Hillary Clinton: Former first lady of very popular President Bill Clinton.

John Edwards: Vice Presidental Candidate in the 2004 Election.

Rudy Giuliani: Arguably the most famous mayor in the history of the United States.

John McCain: One of the most famous Senators in the United States. Ran for President in 2000.

Fred Thompson: Popular American actor.

Mitt Romney: Not well known at all before he ran.

Barack Obama: Not well known at all before he ran.


I seriously believe that looks are a major reason why Barack Obama and Mitt Romney are popular in the race. If either one of them looked like Dennis Kucinich or Mike Gravel, do any of you honestly think they would be as popular as they are in the race today?

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Old 09-07-2007, 05:42 AM   #837
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Actually, I had heard of Obama before, and I don't follow politics all that readily. There was huge hype when he was first elected. Romney, I'll admit, I'd never heard of, but Obama had been making headlines. I don't really remember why, but I knew about him as much as I knew about most politicians.
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Old 09-07-2007, 06:44 AM   #838
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That being said, it seems like Barack Obama and also Mitt Romney would not be as popular or well known if it weren't for their looks, height and young age, IMHO.
Mitt Romney looks like a used car salesman to me. And then he opens his mouth and sounds like one too.
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Old 09-07-2007, 08:19 AM   #839
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Originally posted by anitram

Mitt Romney looks like a used car salesman to me. And then he opens his mouth and sounds like one too.
Hey, don't insult used car salesmen

Michelle Obama is awesome, she really keeps that man's feet on the ground doesn't she? I love it.
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Old 09-07-2007, 08:29 AM   #840
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I


I seriously believe that looks are a major reason why Barack Obama and Mitt Romney are popular in the race. If either one of them looked like Dennis Kucinich or Mike Gravel, do any of you honestly think they would be as popular as they are in the race today?

Excellent point.

And to the cheap shot offered by the Non US citizen regarding Mitt looking like a used car salesman, alot of Americans viewed Bill Clinton this way, and if I remember right he was elected twice despite being hobbled by an unpopular wife.

That said, I do not see Mitt winning the general election.
Fast Freddy may be the man.

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