Obama General Discussion, vol. 4

[yolland]

Andrew Sullivan, Aug. 28

There are two toxic possibilities for the fall campaign focused on two aspects of each candidate's life. The first is race; the second is Mormonism. Romney has now firmly grasped the race weapon, while I doubt very much that Obama will touch the LDS church. That shows you who's still got the edge at the moment: Obama. I try not to jump to conclusions about racial appeals--but the two-pronged campaign assault by Romney, on Medicare and welfare, does not rise to the level, in my view, of plausible deniability.

They key to both is the classic notion that unworthy blacks are taking from worthy whites. And so the Medicare ad uses white old faces expressing shock at the notion that Obama would transfer money from their retirement healthcare for health insurance for those without, i.e. the poor, who tend to be more minority than the rich. It's basically a lie--Ryan would cut the same from Medicare as Obama would, and there is no direct quid pro quo between the two policies. It's also dishonest: Ryan and Romney are promising to cut Medicare spending and yet are running against Obama for doing exactly that. Then there's the simple bald lie that Obama is allowing welfare recipients to escape work requirements. I don't remember a campaign in my lifetime which based an entire line of attack on a total fabrication, in fact a reverse of the truth. The welfare waivers are designed exclusively to experiment with how to increase the effectiveness of the work requirement for welfare, and waivers have been granted to Republican governors as well. And yet we get this from the Romney campaign: "Our most effective ad is our welfare ad," a top television advertising strategist for Romney, Ashley O'Connor, said at a forum Tuesday hosted by ABCNews and Yahoo! News. "It's new information." It's not. It's new disinformation. It's Orwellian propaganda. Chris Matthews was righteously indignant yesterday about the revival of Atwaterism--but the real scandal is that a major campaign is running a race-baiting ad based on nothing. And it's their most effective. The subtext to this is pretty obvious. James Bennet notes the following unguarded aside by Karl Rove to the Washington elite's stenographer, Mike Allen. Rove was unsurprisingly comfortable enough to say the following about a chat with Mitch Daniels:

And I said, 'Mitch, is there a white Democrat south of Indianapolis who's supporting Obama who's not a college professor in Bloomington?' [Laughter] And he stopped for a minute over his green beans and says, 'Not that I can think of.' You know, Indiana's gone.​

The simple assumption of racial politics as the driver of campaigns is what's striking. Karl Rove became what he is--a persistent whitehead on the face of American politics--because he learned the art of race-baiting politics in the South. Romney--having given up on Latinos and blacks and gays--is now betting the bank on the white resentment that has been fast losing potency since the 1990s. Which is where Bill Clinton comes in. He is used in that ad. His speech at the DNC should take on this lie aggressively, call Romney personally on it, and demand that the lie end. No one has more cred on this than Clinton. He should punch hard. In many ways, this is the biggest moment in Bill Clinton's post-presidential life. Killing racial wedge politics would be a fitting finale to his life's work on that subject.

 

[anitram]

Where does the GOP think they will end up with 0% support among Blacks and what, 25% among Latinos? Does nobody in that party comprehend demographic trends?

 

[yolland]

Campaign strategy's about the now though, not the longterm.

National Journal, Aug. 27

Romney’s team hopes to increase his vote share to three-fifths among college-educated white men and two-thirds among blue-collar white men. But his advisers believe the election will be decided mostly by whether Romney can make smaller gains among white women. Most polls show Obama maintaining or exceeding his strong 2008 showing with college-plus white women (he’s polling above 60% with them in some key states); Romney’s campaign hopes to recapture some of these voters by stressing the increased federal debt their children will inherit after Obama’s term. Romney’s team considers it even more imperative to reverse the recent gains that Obama has recorded among blue-collar white women by his effective portrayal of the GOP nominee as an out-of-touch plutocrat. Attacks against Obama’s record on spending and welfare will be Romney’s key strategy there.

Republican strategists clearly feel the weight of trying to assemble a national majority with so little support among minorities that they must win three in five whites. “This is the last time anyone will try to do this,” one said. A GOP coalition that relies almost entirely on whites could squeeze out one more narrow victory in November. But if Republicans can’t find more effective ways to bridge the priorities of their conservative core and the diversifying Next America, that weight will grow more daunting every year.

 

[trojanchick99]

That is in line with what Boehner has said:

“This election is about economics… These groups have been hit the hardest. They may not show up and vote for our candidate but I’d suggest to you they won’t show up and vote for the president either.”

So the Republican strategy is hoping minorities and the poor just don't vote.

Boehner Says Out Loud He Hopes Blacks and Latinos 'Won't Show Up' This Election - Politics - The Atlantic Wire

 

[Irvine511]

Where does the GOP think they will end up with 0% support among Blacks and what, 25% among Latinos? Does nobody in that party comprehend demographic trends?

It's all part of their suicide pact.

 

[INDY500]

But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there’s not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it’s not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.Senator Obama 2008

And 4 years later President Obama's only solutions have been government checks (unemployment, food stamps and SSI disability).

 

[Irvine511]

You're right. That's all he's ever done. I swear, it's like reparations.

 

[deep]

Unbelievable that you could hypothetically live in a state where you don't get a choice. How would you defend that Indy?

I think she is old enough and responsible enough to know how to have sex and not get pregnant.

 

[digitize]

And 4 years later President Obama's only solutions have been government checks (unemployment, food stamps and SSI disability).

As evidenced by the lower unemployment rate?

 

[Caleb8844]

As evidenced by the lower unemployment rate?

Lower unemployment rate in Pennsylvania? Or across the country? Neither are lower than when he made that statement.

 

[anitram]

Republican strategists clearly feel the weight of trying to assemble a national majority with so little support among minorities that they must win three in five whites. “This is the last time anyone will try to do this,” one said.

So irrespective of what happens in November, the Republicans are suddenly going to wake up and become a completely different party? Well, at least something good.

 

[deep]

So irrespective of what happens in November, the Republicans are suddenly going to wake up and become a completely different party? Well, at least something good.

No just a little different. Bush was able to get (just) enough Latino votes to win.


A person like Jeb Bush, with his Mexican wife Columba would get a good chunk of Latino votes. She is a legit Latino unlike Rubio.

 

[INDY500]

As evidenced by the lower unemployment rate?

The unemployment rate is lower only because 7 million Americans have quit looking for work. If the workforce was the same size today as Jan 2009 the unemployment rate would be around 12%.

In reality, President Obama has created more disabled people (3.1 million) than jobs (2.7 million).

 

[INDY500]

Andrew Sullivan, Aug. 28

Which is where Bill Clinton comes in. He is used in that ad. His speech at the DNC should take on this lie aggressively, call Romney personally on it, and demand that the lie end. No one has more cred on this than Clinton. He should punch hard. In many ways, this is the biggest moment in Bill Clinton's post-presidential life. Killing racial wedge politics would be a fitting finale to his life's work on that subject.

I seem to remember four years ago President Clinton was accusing the Obama campaign of playing the race card.

“I think that they played the race card on me. We now know, from memos from the campaign that they planned to do it along.” – President Bill Clinton.

President Bill Clinton says the Obama campaign “played the race card” on him ? Y-Decide 2008

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Yeah, keep in mind Clinton was supporting his wife's campaign against Obama at the time. And for the record, I wasn't really big on how the Clintons handled their campaign.

All I know is that we have seen WAY too many people obsess over where exactly Obama was born, make a big fuss out of his "Kenyan ties" (ooooh, how mysterious!) and question just how "American" he truly is. If one can't see where there's some racist connotations there, I don't know what to tell you.

Unbelievable that you could hypothetically live in a state where you don't get a choice. How would you defend that Indy?

It's crazy, yeah. Especially since they could put all the bans in place they want, if a woman really wants an abortion, you think she's going to let those bans stop her? Nope.

(You know, kind of like how the gun rights people talk about how banning guns won't stop people from getting them? That sort of thing? It's funny, the lack of consistency in regards to what we're willing to support bans on sometimes.)

 

[maycocksean]

That is in line with what Boehner has said:



So the Republican strategy is hoping minorities and the poor just don't vote.

Boehner Says Out Loud He Hopes Blacks and Latinos 'Won't Show Up' This Election - Politics - The Atlantic Wire

Infuriating. Every time I think I might be open to conservative arguments, this kind of thing stops me in my tracks. The way the Republicans are trying to prevent certain voting blocs from being able to vote is unconscionable.

And 4 years later President Obama's only solutions have been government checks (unemployment, food stamps and SSI disability).

I know it was impolitic. But every time I hear that Obama quote, I can't help thinking "but he's right!"

And Obama's "only solutions have been handing out gov. checks, food stamps etc." Weren't you the one crying out piously about the "truth" in another thread?

 

[yolland]

I seem to remember four years ago President Clinton was accusing the Obama campaign of playing the race card.

I'd say the other way round was closer to the truth, but either way it's one reason why Bill Clinton might be loath to do what Sullivan urges. I think though Sullivan was more envisioning that Clinton as a leader in welfare reform would have special clout in countering misinformation about the implementation of work requirements under Obama, not that Clinton would have special clout in embarking on an apropos-of-nothing rant about race-baiting campaign tactics.

 

[BVS]

But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there’s not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it’s not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.Senator Obama 2008

I seem to remember four years ago President Clinton was accusing the Obama campaign of playing the race card.



President Bill Clinton says the Obama campaign “played the race card” on him � Y-Decide 2008

Did we just have some weird wormhole that took this forum back in time? Are we going to be seeing quotes from Jerimiah Wright and Saul Alinsky too?

Or maybe someone just saw 2016 recently...

 

[INDY500]

Infuriating. Every time I think I might be open to conservative arguments, this kind of thing stops me in my tracks. The way the Republicans are trying to prevent certain voting blocs from being able to vote is unconscionable.

Here it is in context.

Reporter: Mr. Speaker, could you talk a little bit about criticisms about, ah that the Republican Party can’t continue to win presidential elections if they don’t appeal to more voters than they are today in terms of [inaudible], non-white voters, others not in the party in terms of Hispanic voters, African-American voters? I was just looking at poll recently that showed Mr. Romney getting 0 percent support… [This is likely a reference to a NBC/ Wall Street Journal poll showing Romney with 0 percent support among blacks nationally.]

Boehner: We’ve never done well with those groups, but think about who this economic downturn has affected — blacks, Hispanics, young people. 50 percent of college graduates unemployed or underemployed. And I think our economic message in this election cycle will help us recruit more of those groups than we would have otherwise. But I think it’s important for our party, if we’re going to be a national party, we’ve got to reach out, and that means showing up in their neighborhoods. It’s a tall order but it can be done.

Reporter: Is it happening so far? Do you think it’s happening… right now?

Boehner: This election is about economics. And they may not show up and vote for our candidate but I would suggest to you they won’t show up and vote for the president either.

First notice what isn't said by the Speaker: "Boehner Says Out Loud He Hopes Blacks and Latinos 'Won't Show Up' This Election." He never says he "hopes" minorites won't show up.

Second, what is wrong with what he says? Sounds like an honest appraisal of past voting trends and an outreach to those groups hit hardest by this president's policies.

And Obama's "only solutions have been handing out gov. checks, food stamps etc." Weren't you the one crying out piously about the "truth" in another thread?

That is a fact, spending on ALL those programs have skyrocketed and not just because of the recession but because of relaxing of eligibility requirements. More government spending is the only answer this president has for our economic woes.

 

[Irvine511]

Clearly the "food stamps as reparations" messaging by the Romney campaign is getting through to some voters.

 

[financeguy]

Clearly the "food stamps as reparations" messaging by the Romney campaign is getting through to some voters.

Which ones precisely?

 

[Irvine511]

Which ones precisely?

On a mobile (hurtling down the east coast between NYC and DC the other awful elites on the hated, socialist Acela), but here's a good jumping off point for you:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobil...ey-welfare-waivers_n_1832871.html?ir=Politics

 

[financeguy]

On a mobile (hurtling down the east coast between NYC and DC the other awful elites on the hated, socialist Acela), but here's a good jumping off point for you:

Mitt Romney Suggests Obama Welfare Waivers Are A Tactic To 'Shore Up His Base'

Well, considering that white voters are essentially financing black voters inability and/or unwillingness to get jobs, it's not necessarily an entirely unreasonable point for the Romney campaign to make.

 

[financeguy]

Or, to spell it out even more clearly:

 

[Irvine511]

Well, considering that white voters are essentially financing black voters inability and/or unwillingness to get jobs, it's not necessarily an entirely unreasonable point for the Romney campaign to make.

Yes, exactly. You've stated the mindset very well. And it's a great rebuttal to people who say that the Tea Party isn't about race or the GOP doesn't use dog whistles and coded language.

Clearly, even a European such as yourself gets the message.

 

[maycocksean]

Here it is in context.



First notice what isn't said by the Speaker: "Boehner Says Out Loud He Hopes Blacks and Latinos 'Won't Show Up' This Election." He never says he "hopes" minorites won't show up.

Second, what is wrong with what he says? Sounds like an honest appraisal of past voting trends and an outreach to those groups hit hardest by this president's policies.

Fair point. Thanks for the context.

the only answer this president has

That's woefully and willfully untrue. Making hyperbolic statements like that hardly puts you in a position to cry foul about others supposed untruthfulness.

 

[financeguy]

Yes, exactly. You've stated the mindset very well. And it's a great rebuttal to people who say that the Tea Party isn't about race or the GOP doesn't use dog whistles and coded language.

Clearly, even a European such as yourself gets the message.

Way I see it, the Democrats want to make this election about race and base social issues. So far, sadly, that tactic is working ok for them.

What would be an interesting advert for the Romney/Ryan campaign - put out an advert saying "does Obama hate blacks?" and then put up a few graphs of the increasing black unemployment rate, the increasing poverty levels and increasing debt, under his regime, etc.

That would be interesting.

 

[Irvine511]

You see?

 

[financeguy]

You see?

What I am supposed to see?

 

[mobvok]

those lazy black blah people