Obama General Discussion, vol. 4

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i'm sure the economy would be just soaring today with McCain/Palin at the helm!

That the best you can do?

We don't have that alternate reality in front of us, however. What we have in the really really real, i.e., non-fictional non-alternate reality world, and seeing as job reports are of interest to you (when it suits you), is, most recently, a really horrendous jobs report that even Obama's people couldn't massage.
 
In terms of economic policy, I can't imagine what McCain/Palin really would have done differently than the Obama Administration. Stimulus still probably would have happened, and deep spending cuts still would be politically impossible. I actually think that the country would be overall more liberal, though.
 
In terms of economic policy, I can't imagine what McCain/Palin really would have done differently than the Obama Administration. Stimulus still probably would have happened, and deep spending cuts still would be politically impossible. I actually think that the country would be overall more liberal, though.

It's interesting to think about would have been... I'm pretty sure stimulus would have happen, though I think the focuses would be different. But I wonder if we would still have the child like standoffs we did during the debt ceiling debate? One thing for certain though, Rush, INDY, Hannity would have all been talking about the fine points of how economic times like this take time to recover, which they do, it's just popular to pretend they don't right now.
 
If anyone really feels the need to prove a point using numbers, I know I don't and I've worked with numbers whole my professional life, can they at least pretend to use some logical context?

The only way to pry any useful info on government policies using economic data, would be by comparing the trend in these numbers with comparable countries.

Otherwise we can just as well post random numbers and pretend we've proven a point ...
 
That the best you can do?

We don't have that alternate reality in front of us, however. What we have in the really really real, i.e., non-fictional non-alternate reality world, and seeing as job reports are of interest to you (when it suits you), is, most recently, a really horrendous jobs report that even Obama's people couldn't massage.
Ultimately, political support in the United States is limited to two choices. Where you see Obama supporters, I see people who simply see the alternative as being even bleaker.
 
President Obama awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom on Tuesday to Dolores Huerta, an 82-year-old labor activist and co-founder of the United Farm Workers union.

Huerta is also an honorary chair of the Democratic Socialists of America.


Obama gave her the award to court the Latinos, he is going after the immigrants that are soft on immigration. The illegal farm workers.
The Dems get the votes from that group.


The GOP have their Latino supporters. Cuban Americans go GOP.
Ever notice how we don't have any problems from undocumented Cubans.
 
We don't really want to talk about the jobs report, 1Q GDP being revised down to 1.9%, consumer confidence tanking or the stock market giving back all its 2012 gains last week do we? :D I thought I'd give Obama supporters a break.

Quite frankly, I'd love to discuss the economy rather than hear the word "socialism" one more time.

I'm shit with numbers, so if you discuss it the way you describe in your post here I'm mainly going to sit here like this :huh:. But we could talk about what Obama's future plans for our economy are versus what Romney's are, those who are good with numbers could discuss the issue in that manner...anything but the tired old "he's a socialist!" mantra.
 
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yahoo.com

The White House hit back hard Wednesday at charges that President Barack Obama is spending too much time courting celebrities for campaign cash and star endorsements at a time when many Americans are struggling.

Asked about conservative talk show host Rush Limbaugh's mockery of the president as "Barack Hussein Kardashian," Obama press secretary Jay Carney shot back: "Two words: Donald Trump. Next question."

Trump is an outspoken supporter of Mitt Romney who has served as something of a foil for Team Obama, which frequently notes his support for discredited "birther" claims that Obama was born overseas.

Obama's re-election campaign has harnessed the star power of celebrities like Sarah Jessica Parker, George Clooney and Jon Bon Jovi, and recently featured Vogue editor Anna Wintour in an ad. Carney's comments to reporters aboard Air Force One came as the president jetted to California for a set of fundraisers—including one where "Glee" star Darren Criss will perform and another at the home of "Glee" creator Ryan Murphy.

On Tuesday, Limbaugh hammered Obama's celebrity connections, highlighting his campaign's ad starring Wintour—released Friday, even as the government unveiled grim jobs data.

"It's an indication once again how out of touch they really are, how distanced they have become from the people who make this country work. It's an indication of what they think the strong drawing power of the presidency is. He's becoming Barack Kardashian. I'll tell you that's what's becoming. He is becoming the male Kim Kardashian with this stuff," Limbaugh said.

Asked a second time whether the president might be sending the wrong message, Carney said that Obama's millions of mostly unknown small donors better reflected his campaign's true nature.

"The difference between President Obama's support, financial support, and his opponent's is stark, but not in the way that you describe. The fundamental difference is President Obama has vast numbers of small donors who support his campaign," Carney said. "That is not the case for the Republican nominee."

"The fact that the president enjoys that kind of support speaks to what his policy priorities are. He's out there fighting for the middle class," said Carney. "The bedrock foundation of his support are the millions and millions of Americans who believe in his vision for this country's future and believe that he has their back."

So is Obama himself a "Glee" fan? Does he have a favorite character?

"I don't know the answer to your question," Carney said.
 
Obama’s Third-Party History - Stanley Kurtz - National Review Online

On the evening of January 11, 1996, while Mitt Romney was in the final years of his run as the head of Bain Capital, Barack Obama formally joined the New Party, which was deeply hostile to the mainstream of the Democratic party and even to American capitalism. In 2008, candidate Obama deceived the American public about his potentially damaging tie to this third party. The issue remains as fresh as today’s headlines, as Romney argues that Obama is trying to move the United States toward European-style social democracy, which was precisely the New Party’s goal.

Minutes of the meeting on January 11, 1996, of the New Party’s Chicago chapter read as follows:

Barack Obama, candidate for State Senate in the 13th Legislative District, gave a statement to the membership and answered questions. He signed the New Party “Candidate Contract” and requested an endorsement from the New Party. He also joined the New Party.

...let us see whether a press that let candidate Obama off the hook in 2008 — and that in 2012 is obsessed with the president’s youthful love letters — will now refuse to report that President Obama once joined a leftist third party, and that he hid that truth from the American people in order to win the presidency.

Keep repeating; he's a pragmatic centrist... he's a pragmatic centrist... he's a pragmatic centrist...
 
Stanley Kurtz, author of Radical-in-Chief.

Just throwing that out there.

Besides, supposing this is true, one only has to look at the way Obama has actually carried out his duties to realize that he's far from a radical leftist.
 
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I don't intend to actually get involved with this thread for the sake of my blood pressure, so take this as a drive-by comment, but Indy, you've never actually met a genuinely left-wing person in your life, have you? Because you seem to have only a vague and distorted notion of what they support, and you seem to somehow think Obama is something other than a right-leaning centrist.

Hell, when even Australia and New Zealand's right wing generally prefers Obama to any Republican alternative, that should tell you something.
 
Folks, I have evidence that Mitt Romney and INDY are in fact current members of a group that calls themselves G.O.D. Group. It stand for Good Ole Days. It's a secretive ultra right wing party that have a plan to take over the world and keep us permanantly stuck in the 1950s, back when life was good.

I have all the evidence in my book coming out July 3rd for $19.50.

Act now and you'll get a complimentary DVD explaing how Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh are of the same blood line and how this plan has actually been put in place decades ago by Fred C Koch.
 
Keep repeating; he's a pragmatic centrist... he's a pragmatic centrist... he's a pragmatic centrist...
let's pretend this revelation means anything for a moment. so because of something he did years ago, this means he's forever branded as an ultra-left winger? give me a break. people change their views all the time, either as they get older or as a way to get more votes. what about mitt's flip-flopping over the years? oh wait let me guess, that was a change of heart, yet obama will always be a radical lefty?
 
In response to FG:

His catering to big business, mostly. The rich have been allowed to keep their ridiculous, deficit-increasing tax cuts and the people responsible for the corporate fraud that got us in deep shit have emerged largely unscathed.

He has also had a relatively aggressive foreign policy that certainly is not reflective of the "far left." And he has been much tougher on immigration than most recent presidents. He also supports capital punishment.

I think the true question is, what makes him left-leaning? He does not oppose Roe v. Wade. He supports gay rights. And I guess his health care plan is somewhat left-leaning in the context of this country, but I would call it moderate at best. What else is there?
 
What evidence is there that Obama is right-leaning? Genuine question.

he won't legalize (or decriminalize) pot

his healthcare plan is a boon for insurance companies, healthcare should be a right, not a profit line for large corporations

he will not use his position to get college costs to something that is fair and affordable for students
 
In response to FG:

His catering to big business, mostly. The rich have been allowed to keep their ridiculous, deficit-increasing tax cuts and the people responsible for the corporate fraud that got us in deep shit have emerged largely unscathed.

Well, this is why I keep saying he is Wall Street's man in the White House, but supporting the status quo of the taxpayer funded oligopoly of huge banks is pro-graft, not pro-free enterprise. In other words, if we are being cynical, it's payback for his backers.

He has also had a relatively aggressive foreign policy that certainly is not reflective of the "far left."

I always have a gripe with the idea that left wing is associated with non-interventionism in foreign policy and hawkishness conversely is somehow indicative of right wingery - Clinton and Blair were the biggest interventionists ever; Bush II was elected on a remit of returning to traditional conservative non-interventionism, before 9/11 changed things; Nixon is blamed for Vietnam even though JFK/LBJ were at least as culpable.

Historically, certainly, conservatives in the US were much more associated with isolationism.

And he has been much tougher on immigration than most recent presidents.

I would grant you this one.
 
he won't legalize (or decriminalize) pot

I wouldn't much too much on that. I have the distinct impression Stalinists were also anti-drugs.

his healthcare plan is a boon for insurance companies, healthcare should be a right, not a profit line for large corporations

Don't know much about the issue, but again, arguably, he is thinking of potential backers which has nothing to do with ideology but comes back to graft.

he will not use his position to get college costs to something that is fair and affordable for students

All relative, isn't it? One of the GOP candidates wants to abolish the Department of Education.
 
Interventionist foreign policy is of the Left.
The true conservative or Right position is more isolationist (like Ron Paul).
In fact, aren't neo-conservatives just classic liberals?

Anyhow...Republicans are married to the Military Industrial Complex.
So it has become a Right-wing 'thing' in America. To be fair, these aren't modern distinctions. Most Americans associate the Left-wing with pacifist loons. Obama is like every other recent President we've had not named Jimmy Carter since...maybe even Hoover. Ironically, Carter's was technically a more conservative position than W Bush. But we all know the spirit of what calling Obama a Leftie is...it's really all about income redistribution.
 
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