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Old 05-18-2012, 08:50 AM   #321
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The big problem with the GOP is that it is almost exclusively white and aging. Presently, half of all births in the US are non-white, and in 20 years these kids will be voting. Resentment and fear of modernity may motivate the North Carolinians to get to the polls today, but the clock is ticking. If the GOP doesn't rethink it's immigration stance, it's opposition to marriage equality, and expand its appeal beyond white men in the suburbs and exurbs by offering more than anti-tax, anti-government rhetoric, it's got a big problem.
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Old 05-18-2012, 09:11 PM   #322
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I know. Imagine explaining that to future generations.
Well, it'll be about like this:

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Old 05-18-2012, 09:17 PM   #323
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Hehe. Yeah, pretty much.

That makes me think of this from "Laugh-In":

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Old 05-19-2012, 12:08 AM   #324
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Not to my recollection, no. We should discuss that issue a bit more, though, 'cause it'd be interesting to see what people think of the idea of changing that law. I mean, we had Schwartzenegger run California, so if someone who wasn't born here can run a state, I don't see why we can't allow them to be president.

(I know people hate Schwartzenegger, though, 'cause California's in a world of hurt right now financially. So that's not the best example. But still, you get my overall point, hopefully ?)

As long as somebody runs the country in a competent, decent, intelligent manner, that's all I'm interested in. I really couldn't care less what part of the world they're from.
Exactly - I don't see why the office of President so desperately MUST be held by somebody born in the US while there are no place-of-birth restrictions on other important political positions. I'm surprised this hasn't been a significant topic of discussion, but the tone of conversation I see from many Americans just seems to unquestioningly accept that the President should be born in the US.

It seems to me that it rules out a decent amount of the talent pool. Hell, if somebody's come to a country, adopted it as their own, and aspires to lead it, it's probably safe to say they're as patriotic and fond of it as any natural-born citizen. I hate to think of the talent New Zealand would have lost if there had been a prohibition on foreign-born Prime Ministers - many of our best and most influential PMs would have been disqualified.

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Our Constitution was written by God through the Founding Fathers. It is infallible and should never be changed in any significant way.
I'm just waiting for somebody to print a Bible with the US Constitution in it.
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Old 05-19-2012, 12:50 AM   #325
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Exactly - I don't see why the office of President so desperately MUST be held by somebody born in the US while there are no place-of-birth restrictions on other important political positions. I'm surprised this hasn't been a significant topic of discussion, but the tone of conversation I see from many Americans just seems to unquestioningly accept that the President should be born in the US.
Pretty much the only time anyone seems to pay attention to the Constitution these days here is if it has to do with either the first or second amendments. And maybe the fourth or fifth amendments every once in a while. The rest of the document might as well not exist.

I've never understood that rule, either. Especially given that our nation essentially was built thanks to immigration.

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It seems to me that it rules out a decent amount of the talent pool. Hell, if somebody's come to a country, adopted it as their own, and aspires to lead it, it's probably safe to say they're as patriotic and fond of it as any natural-born citizen.
Agreed, especially with your second sentence there. It's so funny the way we view immigration in this country sometimes. We talk about how the fact that so many people want to come here proves why the U.S. is so great, and we talk all the time about the "melting pot" of America and how great it is.

Then we turn around and put a ton of restrictions on immigrants and treat them like lesser citizens. Go figure.
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Old 05-19-2012, 01:38 AM   #326
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What good would it do to open things up for a foreign-born President that still has to preside over a practically irresolvable, broken/corrupted/sold out system?

Bigger fish to fry.

The bigger problem in this context is why we can only have a maximum of eight years of Reagan, Clinton, Obama, or Bush in the White House...and yet you could easily have 36 years of Dick Lugar in the Senate. I am all for the two term limit on the Presidency. I am entirely against allowing more than two terms for Senators. Among the many arguments in favor of congressional term limits, this is another to toss on the growing pile.
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Old 05-19-2012, 01:56 AM   #327
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Indeed, it's certainly not the most pressing issue we should be addressing at this time, but it's an interesting discussion nonetheless, and something I wouldn't mind having brought up more often in the national discussion down the line if/when necessary.

Fully agreed on the term limit stuff, though, yes. Absolutely.
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Old 05-19-2012, 11:50 AM   #328
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Pretty much the only time anyone seems to pay attention to the Constitution these days here is if it has to do with either the first or second amendments. And maybe the fourth or fifth amendments every once in a while. The rest of the document might as well not exist.
Actually the Obama Administration argued before the supreme Court that Obamacare is constitutional under the Commerce Clause. Gay Rights advocates argue for marriage equality under the 14th Amendment and conservatives (and unevolved Democrats) argue against both using the 10th amendment.
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Old 05-19-2012, 07:15 PM   #329
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http://pjmedia.com/rogerkimball/2012...y-the-numbers/



No doubt Bush's fault.

(and the federal debt actually just passed 100% of GDP so the chart has a misprint)
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Old 05-19-2012, 10:11 PM   #330
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Glad to see you agree that the only way to deal with debt is to raise revenues.

Because we sure as hell can't cut our way out of this.
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Old 05-19-2012, 11:36 PM   #331
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Actually the Obama Administration argued before the supreme Court that Obamacare is constitutional under the Commerce Clause. Gay Rights advocates argue for marriage equality under the 14th Amendment and conservatives (and unevolved Democrats) argue against both using the 10th amendment.
I was talking more in a "your average public" sense overall.

I've no doubt some people use the 14th and 10th amendments for their cases in their conversations, but I rarely ever hear them used in the debates I'm a part of. Especially with the 10th amendment ones. In those instances I always seem to hear arguments instead that say gay rights are "against God's will" or that Obamacare will lead to death panels or something of that sort.
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Old 05-20-2012, 05:46 AM   #332
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Roger’s Rules � Obama by the numbers



No doubt Bush's fault.

(and the federal debt actually just passed 100% of GDP so the chart has a misprint)
Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but all of those things have been gradually happening for years. Bush made it worse and possibly sped up the process, but I'm willing to say that we've had these issues for decades. The changes have just been so gradual and slow that people keep attributing them to fluctuations and good years/bad years until finally we realized what was going on.

Put it this way. I adopt a dog, and the past few owners have not taken very good care of it. The dog is sick, and needs help, but it is beyond my ability to treat. I do the best I can, but the dog gets worse and hits its record low under my care. Is that my fault?

Now Obama's done a lot of stupid things, and he's been just as detrimental to this country as he's been helpful, but anyone who thinks that if someone else had been voted in this (unemployment rate, housing crash, etc) wouldn't be happening is just plain blind.
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Old 05-20-2012, 10:33 AM   #333
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The tenth amendment pisses me off, because it implies that state governments are somehow inherently better than the federal government at everything. There are absolutely things that states should handle and the federal government should lay off, but civil rights issues are not one of them.
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Old 05-20-2012, 10:43 AM   #334
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The tenth amendment pisses me off, because it implies that state governments are somehow inherently better than the federal government at everything. There are absolutely things that states should handle and the federal government should lay off, but civil rights issues are not one of them.
But the Constitution is utterly infallible!
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Old 05-21-2012, 02:30 PM   #335
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warning : Penn says a couple of f - words

this video, and attitude is why I think a lot of young people will vote Libertarian


Penn's Obama Rant - YouTube


that Romney- pac should run this every place that will let them.
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Old 05-21-2012, 02:31 PM   #336
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Did Teller say anything?
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Old 05-21-2012, 03:20 PM   #337
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that Romney- pac should run this every place that will let them.
Why? Romney isn't for legalization of drugs. It would bite him in the ass.
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Old 05-21-2012, 03:34 PM   #338
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Penn throws out some "interesting" questions, that if independents and undecideds considered them, would lead them to be less likely to vote for Obama
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Old 05-21-2012, 03:54 PM   #339
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Penn throws out some "interesting" questions, that if independents and undecideds considered them, would lead them to be less likely to vote for Obama
He does, but those questions don't exactly play into Romney's hands either.

You mentioned the libertarian vote, and I think you're right. I think there are a lot of young people who are very attracted to the libertarian line of thinking, but how that translates is hard to tell. Will they actually vote libertarian, stay home, or vote for the one they find to be the lesser of the two evils? Hard to tell
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Old 05-21-2012, 04:17 PM   #340
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this is all predicated upon us having a fairly close election in Nov.

that comes down to who takes the time to show up and vote.

Obama had a fairly broad coalition in 2008, if he loses 2-3 % of those 2008 voters to the Libertarians, a few more to apathy he will have a problem.

As for the independents, I can say that Obama appealed more to them in 2008 than Bush/ Cheney / Alberto Gonzales / WMD lies
all that worked against the GOP in favor of Obama

Romney is seen as a goody two shoes, not likely that got away with any felonies like Obama ( did a little blow )
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