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Old 11-10-2011, 05:06 PM   #501
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Can Obama just tell Netanyahu that he's an asshole to his face and endorse a Palestinian state? I promise that the left will get behind him for this next election if he just does something like that, regardless of how many investment bankers we know he'll keep appointing to positions or caving to whenever he tries to reign in Wall Street.
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Old 11-10-2011, 05:10 PM   #502
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Knowing how politics works
and how to count to 270 electoral votes, that would 100% doom any shot of being reelcted, and hurt Dems down ticket all over the place

that sounds like a suggestion from the GOP playbook?
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Old 11-10-2011, 07:15 PM   #503
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It's effectively a protest vote and if the major Leftist party continues to not give a rat's ass about us liberals, they can face the consequences.

that's pretty selfish, don't you think? i can't have exactly what i want, so i'm going to help the idiot cowboy death clown from Texas get elected?
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Old 11-10-2011, 08:04 PM   #504
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Obama - 303 EVs
Romney - 235 EVs
Many states' electoral votes have changed due to the 2010 census with states gaining votes being blue states and those losing votes being Obama states. So factor that into your numbers. Some states may have adopted the Colorado rule of doling out electoral votes by district, not winner take al,l as well but I'm not sure about that.

Finally, Romney may be able to carry New Hampshire, Michigan and other states that McCain floundered in.
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Old 11-11-2011, 07:23 AM   #505
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The Electoral map is a little more complicated than in 2008, but not by much. It still mostly comes down to Florida and Ohio. Obama doesn't need Virginia and NC to win.
Rubio as the GOP VP choice makes Florida more in play, but Romney talking about Social Security changes could F*** that up. (And if I'm not mistaken, Romney is the most moderate of the GOP candidates on SS.)

At least it will be an early night. It seems quite likely that the Eastern Time Zone decides the 2012 election.
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Old 11-11-2011, 08:01 AM   #506
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Whether imposed by President Obama or the tree industry the salient point is the tax was stopped without one tent being erected in a park, one drum circle or one brick through a window.
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Old 11-11-2011, 10:37 AM   #507
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I don't get the tree tax BS. Painting it as a religious issue is pure laziness.

Menorahs and prayer rugs don't grow in the forest.
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Old 11-11-2011, 11:04 AM   #508
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Pine trees were also not present in Bethlehem, so..................
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Old 11-11-2011, 12:25 PM   #509
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Whether imposed by President Obama or the tree industry the salient point is the tax was stopped without one tent being erected in a park, one drum circle or one brick through a window.
Right, because the two situations are so similar as to invite comparison.
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Old 11-11-2011, 01:35 PM   #510
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The Electoral map is a little more complicated than in 2008, but not by much. It still mostly comes down to Florida and Ohio. Obama doesn't need Virginia and NC to win.
Rubio as the GOP VP choice makes Florida more in play, but Romney talking about Social Security changes could F*** that up. (And if I'm not mistaken, Romney is the most moderate of the GOP candidates on SS.)

At least it will be an early night. It seems quite likely that the Eastern Time Zone decides the 2012 election.
I think it is reasonable to assume if Florida and Ohio go for the same candidate, that side wins.

Romney polls best of the GOP in Florida, and if he gets the nom, he will have flopped back over to not talking about SS reform. Why scare the old folks?
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Old 11-11-2011, 02:45 PM   #511
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Florida going for Bama was a fluke last time. It will not see blue again for a very long time.

such a stupid state
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Old 11-11-2011, 03:08 PM   #512
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GOP does have a pretty good hold on Florida

and we know from 2000, they know how to work all the angles.


I don't think Romney need Rubio on the ticket, having him stump up and down the state is just as good. Also, the Jewish vote for Obama will not be s strong this time around.
Of course we could give Israel all the intel they need to bomb Iran, that could be Obama's October surprise.
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Old 11-11-2011, 05:00 PM   #513
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Right, because the two situations are so similar as to invite comparison.
There are in one regard.

Cheerleaders for OWS are claiming victory because Bank of America dropped its plan for a $5 debt card fee. I think it only fair to point out that political change can still be achieved in this country without giving up bathing.
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Old 11-11-2011, 05:41 PM   #514
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There are in one regard.

Cheerleaders for OWS are claiming victory because Bank of America dropped its plan for a $5 debt card fee. I think it only fair to point out that political change can still be achieved in this country without giving up bathing.
Typical American conservative rhetoric from you, INDY.
  • Claim moral outrage at something trumped up and overblown by right-wing media
  • Be called out on it by someone with fairly sensible, middle-of-the-road political views rooted in reality
  • Attempt petty/strained comparison to justify original position in a gutless retreat

That's the modus operandi of the GOP hype machine in general. Outrage, hyperbole, publicity, quiet retreat back to reality on the issue.

The voting public does not bother doing their research, so only the original hysterical talking point is remembered.

Swiftboat.
Death panels.
Obamacare.
Etc.

You disgust me, sometimes.
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Old 11-11-2011, 05:53 PM   #515
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1131 View Post
Typical American conservative rhetoric from you, INDY.
  • Claim moral outrage at something trumped up and overblown by right-wing media
  • Be called out on it by someone with fairly sensible, middle-of-the-road political views rooted in reality
  • Attempt petty/strained comparison to justify original position in a gutless retreat

That's the modus operandi of the GOP hype machine in general. Outrage, hyperbole, publicity, quiet retreat back to reality on the issue.

The voting public does not bother doing their research, so only the original hysterical talking point is remembered.

Swiftboat.
Death panels.
Obamacare.
Etc.

You disgust me, sometimes.




Typical liberal/progressive rhetoric from you, Canadien1131.


Take care
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Old 11-11-2011, 05:55 PM   #516
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Old 11-11-2011, 05:56 PM   #517
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Typical liberal/progressive rhetoric from you, Canadien1131.


Take care
No surprise you fail to provide any kind of cogent argument or explanation with one of your posts.

God be with ya
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Old 11-11-2011, 06:16 PM   #518
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No surprise you fail to provide any kind of cogent argument or explanation with one of your posts.

God be with ya



I was just expressing my opinion.



You posted this:

"That's the modus operandi of the GOP hype machine in general. Outrage, hyperbole, publicity, quiet retreat back to reality on the issue."


Is that your idea of stating a cognent argument and explaination?
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Old 11-11-2011, 06:42 PM   #519
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Typical American conservative rhetoric from you, INDY.
  • Claim moral outrage at something trumped up and overblown by right-wing media
  • Be called out on it by someone with fairly sensible, middle-of-the-road political views rooted in reality
  • Attempt petty/strained comparison to justify original position in a gutless retreat
Mind if I ask what the hell you're talking about? Called out on what? My point all along is, for all its faults, politics in America still works if you engage the system rather than trying to undermine it. Now Dieman is a fair MOD and intelligent and reasoned but "middle-of-the-road" politically? Even Dieman would not admit to that I'd guess.
Quote:

Swiftboat.
Death panels.
Obamacare.
Etc.
Mediscare. (see Throw granny over the Cliff ad)
Republicans want "dirty air, dirty water, and fewer people with health insurance." (see Obama on the campaign trail)
Daisy Girl. (see Democratic ad against Goldwater)
Reagan's finger on the button.
George W Bush is "shredding the Constitution" on civil liberty.
Etc.

What's your point? Surely not that only the GOP uses such tactics.
Quote:
You disgust me, sometimes.
Really? In a world of Penn St, Darfur, terrorism, honor killings and haggis... my words defending capitalism, American Exceptionalism and tenets of conservatism disgust you?
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Old 11-12-2011, 07:56 PM   #520
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Many states' electoral votes have changed due to the 2010 census with states gaining votes being blue states and those losing votes being Obama states. So factor that into your numbers. Some states may have adopted the Colorado rule of doling out electoral votes by district, not winner take al,l as well but I'm not sure about that.
12 Electoral votes swapped places.
2012 electoral vote in parenthesis.
Bolded are supposed toss-ups.

Texas +4 (38)
Florida +2 (29)
Arizona +1 (11)
Georgia +1 (16)
Nevada +1 (6)
South Carolina +1 (9)
Utah +1 (6)
Washington +1 (12)

New York -2 (29)
Ohio -2 (18)
Illinois -1 (20)
Iowa -1 (6)
Louisiana -1 (8)
Mass. -1 (11)
Michigan -1 (16)
Missouri -1 (10)
New Jersey -1 (14)
Pennsylvania -1 (20)

There are thought to be (by most pundits) twelve toss-up States.
Although some of the more biased "pundits" have said eight, I think twelve is at least a more wide net and people can make up their own minds from there.

Here are the 2012 electoral votes for those states.
Nevada (6), Colorado (9), Iowa (6), Florida (29), Michigan (16), Pennsylvania (20), New Mexico (5), Wisconsin (10), New Hampshire (4), North Carolina (15), Ohio (18), Virginia (13).

Minnesota (10) is considered by some as a 13th swing state.

If MN goes to Obama, then the split is Obama-196 Republican-191.
With those 151 votes from the 12 swing states up for grabs.
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