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Old 11-09-2011, 12:13 PM   #481
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2861U2 View Post
Seriously, this is an idiotic move. They're targeting one religion for a tax. Why not tax menorahs? Or prayer rugs?
Do you have to be Christian to put up a Christmas tree? Christmas stopped being about religion a long time ago, so I hardly think of this as a tax on religion.
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Old 11-09-2011, 12:23 PM   #482
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Originally Posted by 2861U2 View Post
Well

Seriously, this is an idiotic move.
you are 100% right about this much
and everyone else that responded to this, what world are you living in?


it's a perception thing, I can't believe all of Obama's advisers failed him so badly, are they that stupid?

net gain on this, vs net loss,
is it even close?


this makes about as much sense as Herman Cain going to a women's shelter and giving out free hugs.
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Old 11-09-2011, 12:32 PM   #483
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Originally Posted by deep View Post
you are 100% right about this much

and everyone else that responded to this, what world are you living in?


it's a perception thing, I can't believe all of Obama's advisers failed him so badly, are they that stupid?


net gain on this, vs net loss,
is it even close?
It might be a perception thing, but those that are ignorant enough to perceive this as an attack on a religion should probably be ignored anyways...
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Old 11-09-2011, 12:39 PM   #484
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seriously?

let's say its Jan 2009
and this question is asked.

During Obama's four year term which of the following will be false ?

1. Obama bin Laden will be killed by U S Forces in Pakistan
2. DADT will be terminated
3. All U S Forces will be out of Iraq in 2012
4. Obama will impose a tax on Christmas trees
5. none of the above
6. all of the above
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Old 11-09-2011, 12:49 PM   #485
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Obama bin Laden
Freudian slip?



Look, I think it's a silly tax, BUT if anyone else would have done it no one would have noticed. You are ignorant to think this has to do with religion, and if you're that ignorant than honestly nothing will change your perception of this world. Jesus could come down himself and you wouldn't recognise him... that's all I'm saying.
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Old 11-09-2011, 12:59 PM   #486
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you caught the false statement, good job!



I am a Obama supported, and most likely will vote for him again in 2012.
honestly it was a typo, you may not have noticed, but the names have only one letter that is different
and my posts are rife with typos



my point in this conversation, is that most are predicting a very close election next year, and Obama taxing Christmas trees is a net loss for that goal.
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Old 11-09-2011, 01:02 PM   #487
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Originally Posted by deep View Post

my point in this conversation, is that most are predicting a very close election next year, and Obama taxing Christmas trees is a net loss for that goal.
And my point is that this type of thing is not going to push an independent over the edge.

Those that see this for anything more than it is, already believe Osama is a Muslim socialist hellbent on destroying Christmas.
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Old 11-09-2011, 01:15 PM   #488
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it is not my style to dredge up the past, that often leads to pissing contests

and since many people read these posts,
I try and write my remarks in a way that allows others to participate in a general conversation.

that said, it seems you want to wish away any negative impacts or outcomes.
in close elections , small things matter a lot.

I do recall awhile back, I posted something about GOP gains allowing them to change voting laws in ways that repress voter turn out that will impact Democratic turn out.
At that time you dismissed it.

It has been a very big story in many states, the Democratic party believes it is serious and is fighting it.

I just call these things as I see them.
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Old 11-09-2011, 01:18 PM   #489
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Come to find out the Heritage Foundation an extreme right wing organization is the one that made this a story, shock and awe. And it's not a tax created by the white house perse its a fee imposed by the industry in order to help promote the industry. The same type of "tax" gave us the "Got Milk" campaign, and "Beef, it's what's for dinner".
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Old 11-09-2011, 01:26 PM   #490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
that said, it seems you want to wish away any negative impacts or outcomes.
in close elections , small things matter a lot.
I'm not wishing away anything, I'm very much a realist and know things are pretty slim. But I'm also pretty realistic on who these small stories effect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
I do recall awhile back, I posted something about GOP gains allowing them to change voting laws in ways that repress voter turn out that will impact Democratic turn out.
At that time you dismissed it.
I didn't dismiss it, once again I was just being realistic. I think this particular issue about voter registration is being framed wrong, by both sides. What I said was that those areas that don't allow free access to photo IDs this type of voter repression wouldn't be allowed, and so far I'm correct its been overturned. I think everyone believes there should be some system in place that makes you prove that you are the voter that you say you are, it's just a matter of how fair access to that type of ID really is...
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Old 11-09-2011, 01:26 PM   #491
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a lesson learned here
that I try and adhere to, is to stay away from a 'hot' topic for a couple of days.

often times they are poorly sourced. most times I spend a bit of time doing my own fact checking.
This time I just took my fellow FYMers to be on point, that Obama had imposed this tax.

Merry Christmas? Agriculture Department Imposes Christmas Tree Tax | Fox News

Fox News says it is 'industry imposed'
it will be interesting to see how some Administration detractors will try and keep this story going.
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Old 11-09-2011, 01:36 PM   #492
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Guess you caught "my" false statement, deep.

I was waiting to see when someone would say "what does Obama have to do with this?!"
That being said, I agree it's a dumb move on the part of the administration. It's just more government meddling in an industry that is dying for a variety of reasons. More than likely, reason #1 is the economy. #2 among those tree loving hippies is to forgo the cutting down of a tree to drag into your house, water it like some mutant houseplant, put a bunch of toys underneath it and then toss it in the trash a few days after Christmas and simply just buy an artificial tree. (Which we have at home, and have had since I was at least 7).
Nonetheless, Obama seems to overcome these missteps over time.

Or, depending on how you see it, "the mainstream media just chooses to ignore them."
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Old 11-09-2011, 01:41 PM   #493
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this is a *slippery story* it appears to be sliding every which direction

Quote:
White House spokesman Matt Lehrich told ABC News that despite some media coverage, “I can tell you unequivocally that the Obama Administration is not taxing Christmas trees. What’s being talked about here is an industry group deciding to impose fees on itself to fund a promotional campaign, similar to how the dairy producers have created the ‘Got Milk?’ campaign.”
Nonetheless, the criticisms have apparently had an impact as the program is now being delayed.
Obama Administration to Delay New 15-Cent Christmas Tree Tax


at this time***

*** the Administration seems to agree with me, perception matters, they don't even want to risk losing a few ignorant voters.
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Old 11-09-2011, 01:54 PM   #494
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
This time I just took my fellow FYMers to be on point, that Obama had imposed this tax.
TBH I didn't get the impression anyone except you thought that, granted that's how lots of headlines out there are making it sound. It is the DoA, as opposed to the growers, technically imposing the tax (fee), as the relevant legislation (Commodity Promotion Act) requires.
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Old 11-09-2011, 02:04 PM   #495
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TBMA (to be more accurate)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
OMG WAR ON CHRISTMAS! WAR ON CHRISTMAS!

Obamer's a Muslin!

*sob*
that was the first post
and I just skimmed the rest

also, it seems the Administration is responding to 'the perception'.
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Old 11-09-2011, 02:16 PM   #496
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Modern politics

Obama is definitely against all the Christians. The Fox News comment panel (and I'm sure tonight's O'Reilly Factor) says so.
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Old 11-10-2011, 04:40 PM   #497
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I will be voting for Nader for a third time or a Green Party nominee if Nader doesn't run.

However, I'd like to discuss my Obama campaign strategy which I think is genius. Basically, his staffers should not put any money into the closest swing states and rather dump most of the funds into swing states that he won by greater margins. Why evenly spread most of the campaign dollars over ten states and give Romney a chance to evenly spread his money and flip some of the bigger ones? It makes more sense to pile the bulk of money/staffers into the states that you will probably win and simply give up the others. If you outspend Romney in a couple of small swing states by like a 5-to-1 margin, you'll easily hold onto those and win the election. It's not about getting 365 electoral votes again, but ensuring you reach 270.


States Obama Won By Less Than 3% in 2008:

North Carolina, Indiana, NE District 2, Florida (-56 Electoral Votes)

- Obama gives up all of that, spending virtually no money in those states.

Current Standings:

Obama - 303 EVs
Romney - 235 EVs

All of Obama's concentration/funds should be spent on Ohio, Virigina, Colorado and Iowa. He will win the rest of the same states with ease as he had strong margins of victory in all the rest. If he loses all but Ohio, he wins the race. If he loses Ohio, he needs to pick up either Virginia or a combo of Colorado/Iowa. I see no reason for him to try and make states like Indiana or Florida or North Carolina competitive when he doesn't need to win any of them. Why not just outspend Romney in Ohio by an unprecedented margin with a bunch of attack ads showing how Republicans tried to curb union power in the state only a year prior? I mean, call me crazy, but Obama could probably spend $500 million in just Ohio and not a dime in the states he's obviously going to win and still end up winning with ease. If I were running his campaign, I'd play this Safe Swing States strategy and I have no doubt it would work.
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Old 11-10-2011, 04:46 PM   #498
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as a fellow Californian,

I guess our votes don't matter, this state is fairly safe to go solidly blue.

the 6 - 11 states that do matter in the electoral college cluster f*ck should seriously evaluate voting 3rd party and having the worse of the evils take office, aka Nader voters in 2000 that could have saved us from Bush in 2000.
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Old 11-10-2011, 04:51 PM   #499
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Election fraud is responsible for Bush's win, not Nader. I know, it's frustrating that virtually all of those 97,488 people that voted for him in Florida would have preferred Al Gore in office to Bush, but that's the entire point of voting for a candidate that's not a member of a major party. It's effectively a protest vote and if the major Leftist party continues to not give a rat's ass about us liberals, they can face the consequences. It's the Democrats that lose out more than us because we all know that electoral politics doesn't change anything. Hence the third party vote.
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Old 11-10-2011, 04:58 PM   #500
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Fraud only works if they can get it close enough to steal it.

With the GOP controlling so many state houses and state legislators and appointed election officials and with voter suppression tactics, there is even a greater chance of stealing or theft of elections, then what occurred in 2000.

therefore, liberals/ progressives voting 3rd party in close states, when they could support the lesser evil, it may be considered a principled stand, but not well thought out.
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