Obama General Discussion... (Part 2)

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i remain very impressed by our new president.

the level of discourse and the discussion on actual, real ideas is very heartening after 8 years of fear, paranoia, and utter lunacy.

his poll numbers will go up and down, he's got a daunting workload, but i'm glad he's there because he's vastly more prepared than McCain, and running the risk of a Palin presidency is absolutely unthinkable.

i just wish we could all disagree with more civility, since Obama has been nothing but civil (cool as a cucumber) since he began.
 
How Pelosi and Hoyer and the like can continue to call these protesters un-American is just baffling. They write today "Drowning out opposing views is simply un-American." I'm glad they feel that way. I'm going to assume that they've come to the defense of every conservative speaker that has ever been disrupted on a college campus (Ann Coulter, the Minutemen, I could go on).

I also find it sadly ironic that this White House- the most organized, choreographed administration in history- seems to be against the idea of people coming together to unite in opposition- to the point of name calling and dismissal. Everything in this administration is so coordinated and fake that they don't recognize real people when they see them, and they end up making Nazi, terrorist, and Tim McVeigh comparisons. :lol:

A community organizer can't whine when communities organize.

The tide is turning, that much is certain. Assuming the GOP wins the governorship in NJ and VA later this year, the Democratic Party better brace itself for 2010.
 
How Pelosi and Hoyer and the like can continue to call these protesters un-American is just baffling. They write today "Drowning out opposing views is simply un-American." I'm glad they feel that way. I'm going to assume that they've come to the defense of every conservative speaker that has ever been disrupted on a college campus (Ann Coulter, the Minutemen, I could go on).

I also find it sadly ironic that this White House- the most organized, choreographed administration in history- seems to be against the idea of people coming together to unite in opposition- to the point of name calling and dismissal. Everything in this administration is so coordinated and fake that they don't recognize real people when they see them, and they end up making Nazi, terrorist, and Tim McVeigh comparisons. :lol:

A community organizer can't whine when communities organize.

The tide is turning, that much is certain. Assuming the GOP wins the governorship in NJ and VA later this year, the Democratic Party better brace itself for 2010.




here's a delicious irony for you:


Over the last few days, a conservative activist in St. Louis named Kenneth Gladney seems to have become something of a cause celebre in far-right circles. Depending on which version of events you choose to believe, Gladney either initiated or was involved in a scuffle at a town-hall event late last week.

At least one prominent conservative blogger said Gladney was "brutally attacked" by SEIU members outside the event. After watching the video, there's ample reason for skepticism. Gladney was, in fact, pulled to the ground during the fracas, but he seemed to bounce back up quickly, and is seen walking around soon after without any obvious injuries. His attorney has argued that Gladney was beaten during the fight, but there's nothing in the clip to support that.

Gladney later went to the hospital, claiming to have sustained injuries to his "knee, back, elbow, shoulder and face."

Yesterday, about 200 conservative activists held a protest outside the SEIU office in St. Louis. Gladney was there -- bandaged and in a wheelchair -- as a featured guest. Some of the activists held signs that read, "Don't Tread on Kenny." Reader R.D. alerted me to this tidbit in the local news account of the protest:

Gladney did not address Saturday's crowd of about 200 people. His attorney, David Brown, however, read a prepared statement Gladney wrote. "A few nights ago there was an assault on my liberty, and on yours, too." Brown read. "This should never happen in this country."

Supporters cheered. Brown finished by telling the crowd that Gladney is accepting donations toward his medical expenses. Gladney told reporters he was recently laid off and has no health insurance.
[emphasis added]

Wait, the conservative opponent of health care reform, fighting (literally) to defeat a plan that would bring coverage to those who lose their jobs, lost his coverage because he got laid off?

I'm not in a position to say whether Gladney sustained genuine injuries or whether he's exaggerating for 15 minutes of Fox News fame and a lucrative out-of-court settlement.

Either way, the new right-wing cause celebre needs to take up a collection to pay for his medical bills because he doesn't have health insurance. It's a fascinating sign of the times.

The Washington Monthly
 
"My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times Building."-Ann Coulter. I suppose this is an example of how Ann the Man and her fellow conservatives heighten political discourse and champion dissent?

And that's a stupid thing to say as well. But she's an entertainer known for her shock value, just like people like Bill Maher are when they say stuff like:

"President Bush is supporting Arnold but a lot of Republicans are not, because he is actually quite liberal. Karl Rove said if his father wasn`t a Nazi, he wouldn`t have any credibility with conservatives at all."


It's quite different when you have an elected representative of the United States making these comparisons. It's just plain irresponsible.
 
^So I suppose you found Sarah Palin's "death panel" comments just as inappropriate and hyperbolic? I suppose that when Mitt Romney declared his support for McCain and said in effect that those who voted Democratic supported terrorism you were enraged that a public official would talk that way? I suppose that when the Bush administration said that any elected official who didn't support the Patriot Act or the Iraq invasion was "unAmerican", you were shocked and appalled? I don't think so. Frankly, I have no idea what you're talking about when you say the Obama administration has compared anybody to a Nazi. I tried searching for it and came up with nothing.
 
Obama general discussion, huh?

I think he's good-looking, articulate, intelligent, compassionate, with good taste in baseball teams and bad taste in beer. I like him and am glad he's the POTUS.
 
^So I suppose you found Sarah Palin's "death panel" comments just as inappropriate and hyperbolic? I suppose that when Mitt Romney declared his support for McCain and said in effect that those who voted Democratic supported terrorism you were enraged that a public official would talk that way? I suppose that when the Bush administration said that any elected official who didn't support the Patriot Act or the Iraq invasion was "unAmerican", you were shocked and appalled? I don't think so. Frankly, I have no idea what you're talking about when you say the Obama administration has compared anybody to a Nazi. I tried searching for it and came up with nothing.

Can you give me some sources? Because I don't recall any instances of mere opposition to the PATRIOT Act being deemed "un-American." And with regards to the Romney comment, I believe you're twisting his words around. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the quote you're referring to is:

""If I fight on in my campaign, all the way to the convention, I would forestall the launch of a national campaign and make it more likely that Senator Clinton or Obama would win. And in this time of war, I simply cannot let my campaign, be a part of aiding a surrender to terror,"

...which I find nothing offensive about. Nowhere in there does he do anything close to implying that a vote for Democrats means the support of Al-Qaeda. What he does do is imply that a Democratic administration would fight a weaker war on terror. And now that terms like "terror," "global war" and "jihad" have been deemed unnecessary, it's hard to argue that he's incorrect.

Have you not heard Pelosi's "swastika" comment? I've seen ONE poster with a swastika on it, and she's attempting to paint the whole crowd with that brush. And yet I didn't hear a peep from her when there were protests in her own district consisting of posters with Hitler imagery and swastikas with President Bush. She can't have it both ways. And what does she mean by "symbols like that," anyway? She's delusional, methinks.

Tell me- don't you think the comparisons to Nazis, brownshirts, political terrorists and Timothy McVeigh are completely uncalled for? Especially when many of them are coming from representatives of the United States?
 
""If I fight on in my campaign, all the way to the convention, I would forestall the launch of a national campaign and make it more likely that Senator Clinton or Obama would win. And in this time of war, I simply cannot let my campaign, be a part of aiding a surrender to terror,"

...which I find nothing offensive about.

Give me a break. You, Glenn Beck and the Rushies of this country would be up in arms if Obama had been on the campaign trail suggesting that a vote for McCain or Huckabee would just be a vote to surrender to terror. :huh:
You have to AT LEAST find it offensive that a candidate for a major party would suggest that all the other people voting for the other side are somehow contributing to terrorism. This is Daisy 101 stuff!

Even if the other side is doing it, the least you can do if you plan to carry a label of prestige on your campaign is to rise above shock-value insults. Most people do not fall for them and it only reflects negatively on the person saying it. I find nothing worthwhile about Pelosi or Coulter, I'll give you that much.
 
Give me a break. You, Glenn Beck and the Rushies of this country would be up in arms if Obama had been on the campaign trail suggesting that a vote for McCain or Huckabee would just be a vote to surrender to terror. :huh:

Not really. I'd actually think it was pretty funny.

You have to AT LEAST find it offensive that a candidate for a major party would suggest that all the other people voting for the other side are somehow contributing to terrorism. This is Daisy 101 stuff!

I think people who wanted to read something larger into his statement will do just that. I just disagree with you. If Mitt Romney had said "If you vote Democrat, you support Al-Qaeda" then yes, I'd have a problem with that.

I'll tell you what I do find offensive coming from the mouth of a candidate:

""It's not surprising, then, they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

"But she is a typical white person, who, if she sees somebody on the street that she doesn't know, you know, there's a reaction that's been bred in our experiences that don't go away and that sometimes come out in the wrong way, and that's just the nature of race in our society."

And so on...

Also, can EVERYBODY cut the Hitler and Nazi comparisons? Whether it's from a politician or a political commentator (and yes, I'm including Rush :ohmy:) or some joe with a poster, it's just unnecessary. As much as I hate Barack Obama and think he'll be probably the worst president in history, I'm not a big fan of comparing anyone or anything to Hitler. Both sides need to adopt this.
 
""If I fight on in my campaign, all the way to the convention, I would forestall the launch of a national campaign and make it more likely that Senator Clinton or Obama would win. And in this time of war, I simply cannot let my campaign, be a part of aiding a surrender to terror,"

...which I find nothing offensive about.

Wow. He is basically arguing that if Democrats win it would be aiding a surrender to terror, and you find nothing offensive about that? I find it hard to listen to you whine about Pelosi wanting it both ways and being unfair when you're being just as unfair.

And now that terms like "terror," "global war" and "jihad" have been deemed unnecessary, it's hard to argue that he's incorrect.

The use of simple terms should bear no indication on how dedicated an administration is to a fight. I know we all love our catch phrases, but come on.
 
Have you not heard Pelosi's "swastika" comment? I've seen ONE poster with a swastika on it, and she's attempting to paint the whole crowd with that brush. And yet I didn't hear a peep from her when there were protests in her own district consisting of posters with Hitler imagery and swastikas with President Bush. She can't have it both ways. And what does she mean by "symbols like that," anyway? She's delusional, methinks.



do you really think that this is the best use of your political energies? getting mad because the other side didn't condemn bad behavior enough? doesn't it strike you that Nancy Pelosi might have other things to do than to equivocate on TV? i'm sure if you asked her, she'd agree with you, but why would she spend her time making sure your feelings aren't hurt or to assuage your sense of outrage or to pat you on the head so that chip on your shoulder stays put?

is this really what we want our political leaders to be doing? is this worth your time and energy? would you like to offer something -- anything -- to the health care debate, something that actually could be of substance? all you've complained about is whatever media representations or misrepresentations there might be in regards to whatever protest is currently happening, you never, ever say anything about the actually substance of the issue itself. you just complain about whatever perceived hypocrisy you're sensing at the moment not in regards to the debate, but in regards to the debate about the debate.

what do you think needs to be done in regards to the health care bill? in regards to Afghanistan?
 
Can you give me some sources? Because I don't recall any instances of mere opposition to the PATRIOT Act being deemed "un-American." And with regards to the Romney comment, I believe you're twisting his words around. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the quote you're referring to is:

""If I fight on in my campaign, all the way to the convention, I would forestall the launch of a national campaign and make it more likely that Senator Clinton or Obama would win. And in this time of war, I simply cannot let my campaign, be a part of aiding a surrender to terror,"

...which I find nothing offensive about. Nowhere in there does he do anything close to implying that a vote for Democrats means the support of Al-Qaeda. What he does do is imply that a Democratic administration would fight a weaker war on terror. And now that terms like "terror," "global war" and "jihad" have been deemed unnecessary, it's hard to argue that he's incorrect.

Have you not heard Pelosi's "swastika" comment? I've seen ONE poster with a swastika on it, and she's attempting to paint the whole crowd with that brush. And yet I didn't hear a peep from her when there were protests in her own district consisting of posters with Hitler imagery and swastikas with President Bush. She can't have it both ways. And what does she mean by "symbols like that," anyway? She's delusional, methinks.

Tell me- don't you think the comparisons to Nazis, brownshirts, political terrorists and Timothy McVeigh are completely uncalled for? Especially when many of them are coming from representatives of the United States?


A. Nancy Pelosi is not a member of the Obama administration, so when you said that "members of the administration" were making Nazi or Timothy McVeigh comparions, that's simply untrue. Nancy Pelosi was asked if she thought their was a grass roots opposition to health care in terms of the protesters showing up at the town halls and meetings. She responded by saying ""I think they are Astroturf … you be the judge," Pelosi answered. "They're carrying swastikas and symbols like that to a town meeting on health care." As you said, we've seen (so far) one example of a poster that represents what Pelosi was speaking about. In that case, that statement is simply not a lie. It's hyperbolic if you read into it too much because it would be easy to say that she was saying that every protester that shows up is crying "Nazi!" or carrying "Swastika" signs, but you'd have to be pretty desperate to think that's what she was actually saying. She was in essence stating a fact, at least one person did carry a sign with a swastika to a health care meeting. As for "symbols like that", it's impossible to say for sure what she may have been referring to, my guess would be she was just referring to general languge or images on signs that she felt was derogatory. Who knows? As for Mitt, you'd have to be pretty blind to not see that his statement "...make it more likely that Senator Clinton or Obama would win. And in this time of war, I simply cannot let my campaign, be a part of aiding a surrender to terror,", was basically saying that a Democratic presidency would in some way, aid terrorism. Look at the quote. He's saying that if he continued to fight for the nomination, he'd take away some of McCain's valuable resources that he could be using to fight the Democratic candidate meaning, the Democratic candidate might end up with more resources and an easier shot at winning the presidency, which would be part of "surrender to terror" There's no context to take that out of. He literally says that an Obama or Clinton presidency would lead to a surrender to terror. There's no other argument or way of looking at that differently. Only an apologist could allow themselves to be deluded into thinking anything else. As for the Bush administration, I wasn't referring to a particular quote when I used the word "unAmerican" just the general attitude and implications in their attitudes towards dissent, i.e. John Ashcroft saying that those who objected to or even had doubts/questions about The Patriot Act were aiding terrorists and endangering U.S. citizens. Pelosi probably shouldn't have chosen the words she chose, but she's not doing anything your side hasn't been doing on a much grander scale for the past 40 years.


ETA: For good measure, as to why Nancy never said anything about protesters in her district comparing Bush to Hitler and/or the Nazis, it's probably because she didn't know or wasn't asked. She probably never would made the comment she did about the health care protesters without being asked either.
 
Not really. I'd actually think it was pretty funny.

"It's not surprising, then, they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

You don't find this funny? Come on, I thought you were a funny guy! Obama aids terrorists! :lol: Obama is the worst president of all time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol: :laugh: :lmao: :roflcopter:

Wait, Hitler's not funny anymore? When did this happen? :doh:
 
How Pelosi and Hoyer and the like can continue to call these protesters un-American is just baffling. They write today "Drowning out opposing views is simply un-American." I'm glad they feel that way. I'm going to assume that they've come to the defense of every conservative speaker that has ever been disrupted on a college campus (Ann Coulter, the Minutemen, I could go on).
You have a very short memory don't you?

And honestly don't you think you could have come up with better examples than Ann and an illegal watchdog group?

Have you not heard Pelosi's "swastika" comment? I've seen ONE poster with a swastika on it, and she's attempting to paint the whole crowd with that brush. And yet I didn't hear a peep from her when there were protests in her own district consisting of posters with Hitler imagery and swastikas with President Bush. She can't have it both ways. And what does she mean by "symbols like that," anyway? She's delusional, methinks.
First of all you didn't even understand the swastika comment, secondly, why is it that you the Bush administration, Rush, and all your other friends get to have it both ways but she doesn't?
 
Town hall meetings should be civil. People have legitamate questions and this is far too much of a serious issue for the protesters to be acting like babies throwing a tantrum when there is intelligent discussion to be had.

and then those people crying saying "I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK!"

What the fuck? What has honestly changed so drastically in their life that they feel their country has been taken from them :doh: Perhaps the conservatives on the forum can enlighten me on this.
 
What the fuck? What has honestly changed so drastically in their life that they feel their country has been taken from them :doh: Perhaps the conservatives on the forum can enlighten me on this.

This happened with the Dems during Bush too. All the whining about civil liberties being stripped away when really only a minute percentage of Americans felt these effects, and most of those being small effects to begin with. People just love to whine as often as possible about every little thing. Half the tea-baggers were just whining about Obama being elected, and not so much about taxes. And half of those people were whining about a black man being in the White House. And half of those people think the Kenyan government put him in power to usurp us all. He's gonna make all the whiteys into slaves.

...in which case I'm going to make 2861U2 one of MY slaves. :wink:
 
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Town hall meetings should be civil. People have legitamate questions and this is far too much of a serious issue for the protesters to be acting like babies throwing a tantrum when there is intelligent discussion to be had.

and then those people crying saying "I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK!"

What the fuck? What has honestly changed so drastically in their life that they feel their country has been taken from them :doh: Perhaps the conservatives on the forum can enlighten me on this.

I think you know the answer to that question :wink: I do.

But ya, I would be interested to hear the explanations from the conservatives here.
 
i just wish we could all disagree with more civility, since Obama has been nothing but civil (cool as a cucumber) since he began.

GWB wasn't civil? Heck, I don't even remember him calling any cops "stupid."
In fact, one of causative factors of Bush Derangement Syndrome was the man's utter lack of being fazed by, stooping down to the level of, or taking the bait of the Michael Moores, Cindy Sheehans, Code Pinks, MSNBC or other mouthpieces of the Unhinged-Left.
 
and then those people crying saying "I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK!"

What the fuck? What has honestly changed so drastically in their life that they feel their country has been taken from them :doh: Perhaps the conservatives on the forum can enlighten me on this.

PH2009060304001.jpg


But progressives can have an organization called Take Back America and during the campaign Senator Obama can tell them, "It's going to be because of you that we take our country back" right?

Both sides do it. Consider yourself enlightened.
 
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