Obama General Discussion... (Part 2)

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The Irish parliamentary system is broadly similar to the UK. Representatives are sometimes asked to leave the Dail for 'unparliamentary language', but it is viewed for the most part as a misdemeanour.

I know what you mean about it being relatively unprecedented by (recent) US standards, but I suspect this veneration of the Sacred Office of POTUS mullarkey is a relatively recent thing - for which the Republicans are largely to blame, ironically.



Yes, a Prime Minister here would take that from their political opposition ten times before breakfast, and they’ll front a proper grilling from the media multiple times in any/every week where there is zero deference to the office. Any policy, any idea, any plan, any controversy - they will get hammered on it from all angles, and they will HAVE to front up to every one of them. I’ve never understood why the US President is so protected, and why the public – on either side – accept everything so ridiculously stage managed.

And just as an aside, the last time I saw someone get into anywhere remotely near this much trouble in Australian Parliament was when a respected elected member got up and gave a little speech, where midway through he slipped in the little fact that he thought that the Prime Minister of the day, who was present, and the Treasurer, also present, were a pair of cunts.
 
Regarding the deference to the US President (Presidency?), I think although inflated in recent decades it probably has a long history. You did replace a king with an elected executive, after all. It's that head of state/head of government duality. The prime minister is not, and never can be, the Head of State.

I think the closest parallel with our system would be if Nancy Pelosi was running the country and Obama was opening flower shows.
 
Also a further point of thought: the 20th and 21st century presidency with its vast aura of prestige also has a lot to do with the position's status as civilian commander in chief of the military. America's military excursions have come to shadow the nation's politics to a significant degree, as well, in this period.
 
But c'mon Diemen. You live in a sanctuary city. Not only do you refuse to comply with current federal immigration laws, not only do you not enforce current laws against hiring illegal aliens but you specifically direct law enforcement agencies to not enquire about legal status. So employers and cops don't inquire about citizenship status but with this new law doctors and hospital administrators will? C'mon.



the furor over "illegal immigrants" amounts to about as much as the furor over "tort reform" -- sure, it would be nice to fix these things, and it might be one piece of a very big puzzle, but it's a distraction from the actual, tough issues and amounts to little more than scapegoating.
 
the furor over "illegal immigrants" amounts to about as much as the furor over "tort reform" -- sure, it would be nice to fix these things, and it might be one piece of a very big puzzle, but it's a distraction from the actual, tough issues and amounts to little more than scapegoating.

Exactly. These two issues are part of much bigger issues. Not to be written into healthcare reform.

But what else do we expect?
 
Regarding the deference to the US President (Presidency?), I think although inflated in recent decades it probably has a long history. You did replace a king with an elected executive, after all. It's that head of state/head of government duality. The prime minister is not, and never can be, the Head of State.

I think the closest parallel with our system would be if Nancy Pelosi was running the country and Obama was opening flower shows.




yes, and no. but pretty good for a ferr-in-err. ;)

individuals vote directly for a candidate for president. the president is the head of the executive branch of government, one of three branches -- the other being the legislative (Congress -- divided up into the House of Representatives and the Senate) and the judicial (the Supreme Court). a Prime Minister is not a President, and vice versa.

there has always been a strong sense of decorum and propriety surrounding the presidency, and it's something that i don't think that most other countries have. i believe reporters still stand when he enters the room for example. in contrast, there is debate, argument, etc., on the floor of Congress whenever legislation is being discussed. we do not have a particular "question time" like i've seen (and enjoyed watching) in the UK, and while i think it might not be a bad thing, it's simply not part of tradition or culture.

US presidents go through a grilling -- relatively -- in press conferences (you'll note that Bush had ... what, less than a dozen in 8 years?) and the actual running for president is pretty much 2 years of debates.
 
Yeah, I think it was Obama in that extremely ridiculous pimp outfit.

What a fucking joke.

What is a joke? Don't tell me you're denying what is happening in that video as being seriously immoral at best and seriously illegal at worst. And this is the organization that trained our president...
 
Oh yes, Irvine, there are certainly subtleties that my post sort of glosses over. Our two systems both bear traces of their British origins however. We have state governors too, but they are ceremonial as opposed to political offices.

Were we to jettison the monarchy, our ceremonial national head of state - the Governor General - would likely morph into some kind of elected presidency... albeit probably with little to no executive powers. Those executive powers and where they reside are the key point of difference, as I see it.
 
What is a joke? Don't tell me you're denying what is happening in that video as being seriously immoral at best and seriously illegal at worst. And this is the organization that trained our president...

My point is how is this an attribute of this administration?

Is this an isolated incident? How many times did they get laughed at?

Is it completely staged(I'm sorry but the pimp and prostitute weren't convincing)?

Acorn trained Obama?

Look, if it's true, these individuals need to be investigated. If there are other cases, I want proof.

Right now, it's just a joke to make such connections. Would your college professor allow such a correlation? If he/she does, they should be fired.
 
But c'mon Diemen. You live in a sanctuary city. Not only do you refuse to comply with current federal immigration laws, not only do you not enforce current laws against hiring illegal aliens but you specifically direct law enforcement agencies to not enquire about legal status. So employers and cops don't inquire about citizenship status but with this new law doctors and hospital administrators will? C'mon.

Interesting. I wasn't aware that living in a city automatically puts you in agreement with that city's administration.

Never mind that I don't actually live in San Francisco.
 
What is a joke? Don't tell me you're denying what is happening in that video as being seriously immoral at best and seriously illegal at worst. And this is the organization that trained our president...

sleight of hand arguments aren't worth pursuing.

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Acorn trained Obama?

Look, if it's true, these individuals need to be investigated. If there are other cases, I want proof.

.

The two working for Acorn in the video have been fired.

Obama and Acorn are two peas in a pod.

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I saw that whole video. I agree that what is on it is shocking. Not so much the assistance in trying to pull a tax rort on a shady ‘business’ (clearly wrong, but clearly not a headline story - even if its coming from Acorn), but when it got to the point where they’re clearly talking about underage prostitution, then yeah, their casual acceptance and willing assistance of that is completely, totally, utterly fucked up and those two women deserve the storm that is surely coming their way.

And yes, whatever system created that situation deserves investigation, but this out-of-nowhere amateur sting certainly also needs to be put through the wringer thoroughly. Who they are, how and why they did it, and what it took for them to get that reaction (as BVS suggested, it paints a very different picture if even simply, for example, this was the 10th Acorn office they visited, having gotten their asses rightfully kicked out of a previous nine – as far as I can see, nothing about their story is known yet either).

However, I really, honestly can’t see how it’s landing a punch on Obama. It’s not even… I mean, Michael Moore and others were howled or laughed out of the room for making wild looong stretch connections to the Bush Admin that didn’t require even 1% of the distance something like this needs to cover before it reaches Obama. Don’t get too excited. If your outrage is taxpayer funded rorts to potential executive cronies doing dodgy business, then remember that during all those years the left never managed to land a punch on Cheney with those far, far, far closer (and far, far, far more expensive) charges against him. If your outrage is over this being evidence that the socialist, Marxist is clearly complicit in the running of a child sex ring via his secret SS gay black immigrant army, then go Palin 2012! Good for you!
 
yes, but they're all black.

No way. Couldn't be that.

Post on 'FreeRepublic' in a thread on this video: said:
The Urban poor are clear and present dangers to the Republic. They fill up the jails, suck untold billions from the public coffiers and are at their foundation are evil and corrupt. We need to take the country back and stop the flow of money and sympathy to these bloodsuckers.
 
the furor over "illegal immigrants" amounts to about as much as the furor over "tort reform" -- sure, it would be nice to fix these things, and it might be one piece of a very big puzzle, but it's a distraction from the actual, tough issues and amounts to little more than scapegoating.

The "furor" over illegal immigrants illustrates the phony numbers being used by proponents of "Obamacare" to sell the plan. "45 million uninsured Americans" just became a manta and a talking point which few in the media showed any willingness to investigate for accuracy.

Is it also a "distraction" to point out that this plan will indeed add to the deficit (CBO report) or what a howler it is for the president to claim he will pay for this NEW government healthcare plan by cutting "waste, fraud and abuse" in our OLD government heathcare plans.
 
The "furor" over illegal immigrants illustrates the phony numbers being used by proponents of "Obamacare" to sell the plan. "45 million uninsured Americans" just became a manta and a talking point which few in the media showed any willingness to investigate for accuracy.

Is it also a "distraction" to point out that this plan will indeed add to the deficit (CBO report) or what a howler it is for the president to claim he will pay for this NEW government healthcare plan by cutting "waste, fraud and abuse" in our OLD government heathcare plans.



the first one, yes, is a distraction.

the second one is a legit question, and where the hard work begins.
 
. If there are other cases, I want proof.

.

Here's your proof.:

Big Government

The same thing happened in a Washington Acorn office.

The actors ( pimp and prostitute) were doing research on Acorn, and here's what they uncovered.

The Baltimore adventure with ACORN started off as a silly idea, both absurd and incredible by all accounts. But it stuck, and quickly escalated into a full blown operation with scripts, method acting, undercover gear, scandalous outfits, fast minds, good hearts, plenty of humor and healthy homemade blueberry muffins.
When I pitched the “prostitute goes into ACORN seeking housing” idea to James O’Keefe at the beginning of the summer, I had absolutely no idea how he would respond. He came back with, “Would you be willing to portray the prostitute? And if so, when can you do this?”

Now before you get all upset and attack the messengers and say they framed the Acorn employees and are racists as Irvine inferred, I would challenged you to look at the big picture of whats really going on at Acorn.

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So the group has been around since 1970.

But today's scandals are a reflection upon Obama?

Ok with that logic, who are the Republican sex scandals a reflection upon?

I expect a timely answer...:lol:
 
So the group has been around since 1970.

But today's scandals are a reflection upon Obama?

Ok with that logic, who are the Republican sex scandals a reflection upon?

I expect a timely answer...:lol:

You probably won't get one. I'm so sick of people equating Obama and Acorn. they aren't the SAME THING PEOPLE. Yes, there is a connection, but they aren't linked at the hip. If you have a legitimate beef with the man and his policies, fine. It just makes the far right look pitiful when they really stretch it to make these connections.
 
You probably won't get one. I'm so sick of people equating Obama and Acorn. they aren't the SAME THING PEOPLE. Yes, there is a connection, but they aren't linked at the hip.

Do a quick Youtube search of "obama acorn"
 
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