Obama General Discussion... (Part 2)

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I don't know if this is from Portsmouth but gee, how lovely

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Unfortunatly all of this has been going on way too long.
 
I didn't agree with comparing Bush to Hitler either. I just see this health care forum fiasco as some sort of bizarre way for certain people to grind their ax with President Obama about things that aren't even related to health care. I bet most of these people have no understanding of what his health care plan really is. I don't-but if I was going to protest it in any way I certainly would before I did.

It even happened at a health care forum in the town I live in-and nothing happens there. If they could only get so worked up about trying to fix the woes in their own party.
 
BushHitlerShitAsshole.jpg

Unfortunatly all of this has been going on way too long.
To be fair, he's right. There was this kind of talk coming from fringe elements on the left under the Bush Admin. But let me stress that it was FRINGE elements. I can safely say that the vast majority of the posters on this board would not have found a Bush/Hitler comparison accurate or fair. I certainly wouldn't, and I happen to think he was a horrible president.

The question is, are these protests just the work of a few fringe Far Right loonies or is there a good portion of otherwise sane folks who are being whipped into a fury by these kinds of comparisons.

Thoughts?
 
here's what i take from most political debates:

democrats think they are always right and republicans are always wrong.
republicans think they are always right and democrats are always wrong.
the independants / libertarians realize they are both full of shit. :lol:

I don't know about that. My issue with the Republicans is less that they are wrong, and more the way in which most of them are approaching the issues. It's the level of discourse on the conservative side that I find appalling.
 
To be fair, he's right. There was this kind of talk coming from fringe elements on the left under the Bush Admin. But let me stress that it was FRINGE elements. I can safely say that the vast majority of the posters on this board would not have found a Bush/Hitler comparison accurate or fair. I certainly wouldn't, and I happen to think he was a horrible president.

The question is, are these protests just the work of a few fringe Far Right loonies or is there a good portion of otherwise sane folks who are being whipped into a fury by these kinds of comparisons.

Thoughts?


I like to think that I'm about as conservative as they come and very very proud of it. I would like to think that these few fringe townhall loonies are not a clear representation of conservatives as a whole. While I agree with some of their views/ concerns this is clearly the wrong way of going about it.
 
BushHitlerShitAsshole.jpg



Unfortunatly all of this has been going on way too long.





while i disavow any Bush/Hitler comparisons, i think one fair distinction to make is that those comparisons were made when Bush manipulated intelligence to justify an illegal war that has killed tens of thousands of Iraqis.

Obama wants to give everyone health coverage.

reasonable people can debate how we go about providing health care, and i think that has gone on in other threads, but i think there's a big, big difference between invoking a wild historical comparison when a big fucking invasion is at stake, versus when you're debating health care.
 
I like to think that I'm about as conservative as they come and very very proud of it. I would like to think that these few fringe townhall loonies are not a clear representation of conservatives as a whole. While I agree with some of their views/ concerns this is clearly the wrong way of going about it.

So in your opinion the whole Obama/Hitler comparisons and such does not reflect the opinion of most conservatives, and that these people are just a few fringe nutcakes whose voices are being magnified by the media?
 
that's a simplification of how Lincoln was viewed in his time, and when the country was literally being torn apart by civil war, i hardly think the Lincoln comparisons are accurate.

Its a fact that while he was President, Lincoln was by far the most unpopular President this country has ever had. Ever President has issues that increase or decrease their popularity that are sometimes out of their control, but it does not change the facts about the Presidents popularity level at the time nor does it make such comparisons inaccurate.

the fact remains that Bush's policies were disastrous, both at home and abroad, and for the GOP as well as they are now a party for old Southern white straight christian men, and he presided over the sinking of an American city.

First, if Bush's policies were "disastrous" for the country as you claim, Bush NEVER would have been re-elected President in 2004. Not only was Bush re-elected in 2004, but he was elected by the first popular(over 50%) majority since 1988! Republicans seats in both the House and the Senate increased, the first time since the 1950s that an incumbant President was able to increase the number of seats his party had in congress!

In Foreign Policy, the Bush administration removed the Taliban regime from Afghanistan and the Saddam regime from Iraq, two regimes that threatened the United States and the world. The administration pursued policies of economic, political and security development in both Afghanistan and Iraq, and while difficult, produced amazing success's in both countries.

Iraq which you claim should not be a country, does not have a government, and should be broken up into seperate states because it is in the middle of a "Civil War" continues to make great strides in developing the capacity needed to function on its own without the aid of the US military and other government agencies. Barack Obama has in fact adopted Bush administration policy on Iraq, even keeping Bush's Secretary Of Defense, a FIRST for a new administration of a different party.

In the United States, the Bush administration achieved the lowest average poverty rate of any administration since the 1970s. It also had an average unemployment rate and inflation rate equal to the Clinton administration. GDP growth was also similar. Although it will be hard to believe, the countries national debt level as a percentage of GDP under Bush on average was less than that under Clinton.

The average economic statistics posted by the Clinton and Bush administrations will be tough for Obama to follow. But years from now, its one of the things objective historians will be looking at.
 
even though, in many cases, these protesters would probably benefit most from genuine heath care reform.

it boggles the mind.

But Rush probably doesn't tell them that. Then again he doesn't even have to worry about paying what his insurance doesn't cover-that would be pocket money for him.

I don't think people want to even put in the effort to find out how it would benefit them. It's much easier to just stand there with a poster of Obama with a little Hitler mustache and/or a swastika.
 
while i disavow any Bush/Hitler comparisons, i think one fair distinction to make is that those comparisons were made when Bush manipulated intelligence to justify an illegal war that has killed tens of thousands of Iraqis.

Bush didn't manipulate intelligence nor was the war illegal. There has never been a war in history that had more resolutions justifying it, had the the occupation that resulted from the invasion approved by the UN for 6 straight years, and few wars that have been supported by so many members of congress, and was also supported by most people in the previous Clinton administration as well as Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton. The loss of Iraqi life is terrible, but those opposing the war had very little to say about innocent Iraqi's prior to the war, and even fewer of them attempt to estimate how many Iraqi's would have died by leaving Saddam in power. No governments policies have killed more Iraqi's than Saddam's policies, yet the same people who attack Bush for Iraqi deaths wanted to leave Saddam in power!
 
Bush didn't manipulate intelligence nor was the war illegal. There has never been a war in history that had more resolutions justifying it, had the the occupation that resulted from the invasion approved by the UN for 6 straight years, and few wars that have been supported by so many members of congress, and was also supported by most people in the previous Clinton administration as well as Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton. The loss of Iraqi life is terrible, but those opposing the war had very little to say about innocent Iraqi's prior to the war, and even fewer of them attempt to estimate how many Iraqi's would have died by leaving Saddam in power. No governments policies have killed more Iraqi's than Saddam's policies, yet the same people who attack Bush for Iraqi deaths wanted to leave Saddam in power!


There are millions being killed in Africa by corrupt governments, rebel forces, etc. But we couldnt give a fuck less about them. Oh wait, they dont have oil. :hmm:
 
To quote Jon Stewart:

"Yes, lincoln was the most unpopular president we ever had... it seems no matter what he did, half the country would hate him!"

I wonder why half of the country hated Lincoln?? hmm.... :hmm:

Actually, if you just took the Northern states, 45% of them did not vote for Lincoln in 1864. Had Sherman not taken Atlanta in 1864, Lincoln likely would have lost the election leading to the election an administration that ran on a peace platform that was willing to agree to the South's demand to permanently divide the country.
 
There are millions being killed in Africa by corrupt governments, rebel forces, etc. But we couldnt give a fuck less about them. Oh wait, they dont have oil. :hmm:

Energy is vital to the global economy, without which, any sort of Aid to Africa would be impossible.
 
There are millions being killed in Africa by corrupt governments, rebel forces, etc. But we couldnt give a fuck less about them. Oh wait, they dont have oil. :hmm:


Does Africa harbor AL Queda and other terrorists? Has Africa made any threats to the United States? Did Africa invade Kuwait?
 
Bush didn't manipulate intelligence nor was the war illegal. There has never been a war in history that had more resolutions justifying it, had the the occupation that resulted from the invasion approved by the UN for 6 straight years, and few wars that have been supported by so many members of congress, and was also supported by most people in the previous Clinton administration as well as Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton. The loss of Iraqi life is terrible, but those opposing the war had very little to say about innocent Iraqi's prior to the war, and even fewer of them attempt to estimate how many Iraqi's would have died by leaving Saddam in power. No governments policies have killed more Iraqi's than Saddam's policies, yet the same people who attack Bush for Iraqi deaths wanted to leave Saddam in power!

You seem to be overlooking the fact that we were all told, including Bill Clinton and Mickey Mouse, that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and was ready to annihilate the western world. They swore to this fact up and down, claiming that they had visual proof and that they knew in which area these weapons of mass destruction were being held.

The truth, and it still is the truth 6 years later, is that these weapons never existed. That part, that monumental part, the reason why we were told we needed to send over our troops was the biggest lie of this century. We had no reason to go into Iraq. Bush's administration promised to hunt down those responsible for 9/11. Where is he? Where is Osama bin Laden? Saddam Hussein was not responsible for 9/11. I'm sure he wasn't crushed about it.
He was an asshole. But the world is filled with assholes.

Say what you will about GDP and deficits and profits, but this is the defining part of Bush's legacy. No one remembers Lincoln for... I don't know, animal welfare.
 
Does Africa harbor AL Queda and other terrorists? Has Africa made any threats to the United States? Did Africa invade Kuwait?

"Africa" does harbor terrorists. How soon we forget about the pirates. Why don't we invade Somalia and get rid of these pirates?

Regardless, I understand your point and it doesn't work. Our reason for invading Iraq was to disarm Hussein's weapons of mass destruction.

I'm sure he had them. Right next to his unicorn stables and dragon lairs.
 
"Africa" does harbor terrorists. How soon we forget about the pirates. Why don't we invade Somalia and get rid of these pirates?

Regardless, I understand your point and it doesn't work. Our reason for invading Iraq was to disarm Hussein's weapons of mass destruction.

I'm sure he had them. Right next to his unicorn stables and dragon lairs.


Did anybody ever happen to think what would have happened if Saddam did have WMD but we didnt act what would have happened? Better to be safe than sorry. By the way there are millions of Iraqi's who are grateful to this country that he's gone. While I am disappointed that Bin laden is still out there I am kind of glad that Saddam is gone with all of the evil he commited and potential for much more.

Alot of people forget that a few years before this war that something happened in NY, Washington, and Pa. I mean nobody here was concerned that Saddam wasnt cooperating with the weapons inspectors.
 
Saddam didn't harbor terrorists either.

they tried -- oh! how they tried! -- to prove that, but it was another falsehood.
 
Does Africa harbor AL Queda and other terrorists? Has Africa made any threats to the United States? Did Africa invade Kuwait?

Actually yes to your first question, of course Africa is a continent and not a country.

When did Iraq "make threats" on the U.S?



Not again what?

This is exactly how you came into the tour section, guns a blazing attacking as much as you can.
 
boston.com

President Obama's primary message at today's town hall meeting in Portsmouth, N.H., is expected to be that the healthcare overhaul will be good for Americans who already have insurance as well as those who don't.

With polls showing deep skepticism about some of the Democratic proposals, he plans to talk about how the plan would prevent insurers from denying coverage for preexisting medical conditions, from dropping coverage when someone gets seriously ill, and from charging exorbitant out-of-pocket costs.

The Democratic National Committee is backing up that message with a new national cable TV ad.

Showing images of happy families, the announcer says, "Your family's care comes first....There's something in it for all of us."

While today's event isn't expected to be as raucous as the ones that members of Congress have been having -- including one that Senator Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania is hosting this morning, where one man has already been escorted out and there has been shouting and heckling -- the president is prepared for some disruptions.

"I think what the president will do is turn to that person and probably ask them to be civilized and give them an answer to their question," White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said on CBS' "The Early Show."

About 1,800 people are expected at Portsmouth High's gym for the town hall, scheduled to start at 1 p.m. EDT.

UPDATE: The White House just released some more information about the townhall, where it said Obama "will discuss what health insurance reform will mean for Americans who already have insurance, highlighting the consumer protections he laid out in recent weeks and focusing on ending denial of coverage based on preexisting conditions."

He will be introduced by a "real person" -- Lori Hitchcock, a 52-year-old, single, self-employed Portsmouth resident who was diagnosed with Hepatitis C in 2003. Because no insurance company will sell health coverage to her because of her pre-existing condition, she has been uninsured for two years, the White House said.

The White House release is below:

BACKGROUND ON THE PRESIDENT'S TRIP TO PORTSMOUTH, NEW HAMPSHIRE TODAY:

HEALTH CARE TOWN HALL
Portsmouth High School
1:00 pm EDT

Today, the President will conduct a town hall meeting on health insurance reform at Portsmouth High School in Portsmouth, New Hampshire. At the town hall, the President will discuss what health insurance reform will mean for Americans who already have insurance, highlighting the consumer protections he laid out in recent weeks and focusing on ending denial of coverage based on preexisting conditions. The President will be introduced by a Portsmouth resident, Lori Hitchcock, who has been denied health insurance due to her health condition. He will then deliver prepared remarks before answering questions from the audience.

Lori Hitchcock will introduce the President. Lori Hitchcock is a 52-year-old, single, self-employed Portsmouth resident who was diagnosed with Hepatitis C in 2003. No insurance company will sell health coverage to her because of her pre-existing condition and as a result she has been uninsured for 2 years. (There is a state program that would provide health insurance, however at $750/mo and a $500 deductible Lori is unable to afford this coverage.) While she continues her self-employment, she continues to look for a job that has health coverage (due to the state of the economy she is currently working temp jobs to make ends meet) but hasn't had any luck yet. Lori lost her husband in 2006 to Hepatitis C and is the mother of 2 grown children her daughter is currently raising her family in Portsmouth and her son is raising his family in Atlanta.
 
Does Africa harbor AL Queda and other terrorists?

yes

Has Africa made any threats to the United States?

no, but the inability of the african countries governments ability to control what goes on increases the threat of spreading terrorism. especially in the sub-saharan countries. do you know islam makes up like 45% of Africa's religion?

oh yeah Iraq is a reeeal threat to the US. what, did it take us all of like 4 months to beat them in the Gulf War? we lost like 100 troops, they lost something around 50,000.

Did Africa invade Kuwait?

no, but we didnt go into Iraq in '03 because they invaded Kuwait did we?
 
Did anybody ever happen to think what would have happened if Saddam did have WMD but we didnt act what would have happened? Better to be safe than sorry.

Now that's just silly. What's to stop us from invading Russia because there's some report out there that says Putin wants to destroy Michigan? Better to be safe than sorry!
We were all well aware of what happened on that Tuesday. Some of us kept it in mind so much that we weren't willing to sacrifice more American lives in a fruitless search that would further drive a wedge between us and the Middle East.
 
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