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Old 08-12-2009, 03:25 PM   #261
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He didn't say that. He, and Rumsfeld, and Condi, and yes, even Powell got on our televisions and said that these WMDs were an imminent threat. This was not the truth.

Not the truth. Not the truth. Not the truth. Not the truth. Not the truth. Repeat that over and over please.
The truth is that Saddam failed to verifiably disarm of all WMD as required by the UN resolutions, and that alone, made military action a necessity. Intelligence was wrong about Saddam's WMD capability in 1991 as well, he actually had more then than we thought, this time the investigations after the invasion failed to turn up banned WMD. But that does not mean such stocks did not exist, or could not later be manufactured.

Because of Saddam's behavior and failure to comply, the only reliable way to insure that Saddam would not have banned weapons now or in the future was to remove him from power. The United States and the international community tried multiple other means of of insuring that Saddam was verifiably disarmed for 12 years after the first Gulf War and they all failed. The only thing that succeeded finally was the invasion and removal of Saddam's regime.
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Old 08-12-2009, 03:38 PM   #262
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Well, the United Nations did not think so, which is why it passed strict resolutions against Saddam, after his unprovoked invasion of Kuwait, requiring that he verifiably disarm of all WMD or face military action to enforce that requirment.
It's funny how this had absolutely ZERO to do with my post and the context for which it was made, but any reason to mention the resolutions
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Old 08-12-2009, 04:15 PM   #263
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By BEN EVANS, Associated Press Writer Tue Aug 11, 4:45 pm ET

WASHINGTON – A swastika was found Tuesday painted on a sign outside Rep. David Scott's district office, an act the Georgia Democrat said reflects an increasingly hateful and racist debate over health care and should serve as a reminder for people to tone down their rhetoric.

Scott's staff arrived at his Smyrna, Ga., office Tuesday morning to find the Nazi graffiti emblazoned on a sign bearing the lawmaker's name. The vandalism occurred roughly a week after Scott was involved in a contentious argument over health care at a community meeting.

Scott, who is black, said he also has received mail in recent days that used N-word references to him, and that characterized President Barack Obama as a Marxist.

"We have got to make sure that the symbol of the swastika does not win, that the racial hatred that's bubbling up does not win this debate," Scott said in a telephone interview. "There's so much hatred out there for President (Barack) Obama."

A moderate Democrat who represents a majority-white district near Atlanta, Scott said he thinks the racism is isolated but can't be ignored. He said the swastika probably was intended as a warning. He hopes it instead persuades reasonable people to maintain a more substantive debate over health care changes.

"We must not allow it to intimidate us," he said.

Scott said his office immediately notified authorities, including the U.S. Capitol Police, who have warned lawmakers about potential threats stemming from the increasingly emotional debate over health care reform. An FBI spokesman said the bureau is investigating along with Capitol Police and the Smyrna Police Department.

Scott's Smyrna office is located in a bank building, so the congressman said he was optimistic that surveillance cameras captured the vandalism.

At an Aug. 1 community meeting in Douglasville, Ga., Scott angrily yelled at protesters who peppered him with questions and complaints about Democratic health care proposals. He has said he was upset that they interrupted a meeting that was supposed to be about plans for a new highway in the area.
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Old 08-12-2009, 04:52 PM   #264
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Moderators, a poster is spamming the forum, can this be addressed?
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Old 08-12-2009, 04:57 PM   #265
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It's funny how this had absolutely ZERO to do with my post and the context for which it was made, but any reason to mention the resolutions
Just don't engage with it. If we don't engage with it hopefully the spambot will go away and find another forum to spam.
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Old 08-12-2009, 05:05 PM   #266
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The UN passed resolutions against Saddam? Really?

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Old 08-12-2009, 05:33 PM   #267
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I'm going to address like three points because I really don't have the time or the "facts" sitting in a file ready to be copied and pasted.

Quote:
Putin's Russia does not have, and is not violating any UN Security Council resolutions passed under Chapter VII rules of the UN requiring him to verifiably disarm of all WMD as a result of an unprovoked invasion that threatened the planets energy supply.
Way to miss my point completely.

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There is much more cooperation today between the United States and people in the Middle East than there was before the Coalition invaded Iraq.
Maybe on a governmental level, since we've put in two leaders to our liking, but with the people... not so much. Not to say they hate us for our freedoms, but they don't want us there. We've created more problems than there originally were. Probably because of the leaders we put in that were to our liking.

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Can you name another leader besides Saddam in modern times that has launched 4 different invasions and unprovoked attacks on 4 different countries, threatened the planets main energy supplies with siezure and sabotoge, officially annexed one of his neighboring countries, used WMD more times than any leader since World War I, murdered through his wars and rule of Iraq nearly 1.7 million people, continue to remain in direct defiance of 17 UN Security Council Resolutions passed under chapter VII rules of the United Nations, while keeping a military of half a million troops, thousands of tanks and armored personal carries, thousands of Artillery pieces, hundreds of combat aircraft and potentially thousands of stocks of WMD, plus short range Ballistic Missiles?
No cause that's incredibly specific to Saddam. I can name you an Asian type leader of a small island in the pacific who has a lil' nickname and tested some short range missiles over some ocean on or around the July 4th holiday. Said individual is communist and really doesn't like the Japanese either.

Can you name me any other individuals who fit this description PRECISELY besides the Lil' Kim of North Korea?????

BTW, I love how you snuck the "potential" in there. Nice touch.
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Old 08-12-2009, 05:35 PM   #268
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the number of people who will acknowledge that Bush did the right thing will continue to rise.
It's a neocon dream.
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Old 08-12-2009, 05:37 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by Tiger Edge View Post
I'm going to address like three points because I really don't have the time or the "facts" sitting in a file ready to be copied and pasted.



Way to miss my point completely.



Maybe on a governmental level, since we've put in two leaders to our liking, but with the people... not so much. Not to say they hate us for our freedoms, but they don't want us there. We've created more problems than there originally were. Probably because of the leaders we put in that were to our liking.



No cause that's incredibly specific to Saddam. I can name you an Asian type leader of a small island in the pacific who has a lil' nickname and tested some short range missiles over some ocean on or around the July 4th holiday. Said individual is communist and really doesn't like the Japanese either.

Can you name me any other individuals who fit this description PRECISELY besides the Lil' Kim of North Korea?????

BTW, I love how you snuck the "potential" in there. Nice touch.
Tiger's Edge you have no idea what you're doing! Just ignore him. Trust me on this. . .it's a losing battle.
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Old 08-12-2009, 05:42 PM   #270
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So I guess the spambot comment was in earnest.

It's okay, I spent a total of three minutes typing up a response. I'll make those minutes up somehow.
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Old 08-12-2009, 05:58 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by Tiger Edge View Post
So I guess the spambot comment was in earnest.

It's okay, I spent a total of three minutes typing up a response. I'll make those minutes up somehow.
North Korea is not an island, it's part of the Korean Peninsula.
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Old 08-12-2009, 09:17 PM   #272
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I could care less.
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Old 08-12-2009, 09:24 PM   #273
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Obama is the first president ever to do this. The IRS is now going to go after rich people with Swiss bank accounts and has a deal where the Swiss rat them out. I think this is terrible, since they put their money there believing they'd be safe. It should be 'grandfathered' and just stop new ones, though if I got rich I'd want to hide it there too. It's rude to change the rules and then go after them now because some may owe for many years. It's a dirty trick because they were led to believe their accounts were private.
Are you for real??
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Old 08-12-2009, 09:38 PM   #274
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I could care less.
I see what you did there.

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Old 08-12-2009, 10:29 PM   #275
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haha.

I cant believe people dont realize that Stephen Hawkings lives in the UK and receives UK medical treatment.

No, Stephen Hawking lives here:




(he actually doesn't, it's just a crazy inside joke.)
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Old 08-13-2009, 06:41 AM   #276
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Obama is the first president ever to do this. The IRS is now going to go after rich people with Swiss bank accounts and has a deal where the Swiss rat them out. I think this is terrible, since they put their money there believing they'd be safe. It should be 'grandfathered' and just stop new ones, though if I got rich I'd want to hide it there too. It's rude to change the rules and then go after them now because some may owe for many years. It's a dirty trick because they were led to believe their accounts were private.
What's "dirty" is the fact that these people opened them in the first place, with the intent to conceal income. That's tax evasion. And it's been illegal from the start. And these people knew it from the start. For Switzerland to aid in international money laundering, it would make them no better than other shady entities like the Cayman Islands, and it appears that Switzerland is now prepared to be more transparent. That does not change the fact that what these individuals have done from the start has been illegal, in regards to money laundering and tax evasion. Now they're just more likely to get caught.
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Old 08-13-2009, 10:16 AM   #277
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It's funny how this had absolutely ZERO to do with my post and the context for which it was made, but any reason to mention the resolutions
This is what you posted:

Quote:
You don't invade based on "better safe than sorry", or these people will be happy...
And yes, UN resolutions and the 1991 ceacefire agreement were set up in such a way as to insure the security of the region through strict inspections and specific authorization to use military force in case Saddam failed to cooperate. The whole idea of the resolutions is to insure that Saddam is disarmed and if he fails to cooperate to act BEFORE he can re-arm with significant quantities of WMD.

Further military action against Saddam after the 1991 Gulf War was to be based on his compliance and cooperation, NOT waiting until he invaded Kuwait again, rebuilt WMD stockpiles are launched Ballistic Missiles against other countries.

Do you agree with the statements Bill Clinton made above?
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Old 08-13-2009, 10:32 AM   #278
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Maybe on a governmental level, since we've put in two leaders to our liking, but with the people... not so much. Not to say they hate us for our freedoms, but they don't want us there. We've created more problems than there originally were. Probably because of the leaders we put in that were to our liking.
Thats false. The US military has received the help of the majority of the Iraqi population in helping to roll back the insurgency in Iraq. Its through intelligence on the street from the average person, that has been vital to finding, capturing and killing insurgents in both Iraq and Afghanistan. You can't have the success that has been seen recently without working well and intensely with the people on the ground.

Most Iraqi's were scared that if Obama won he was going to rapidly withdraw US troops as he stated in 2007. But they have now been reasured because he is following Bush's plan for Iraq.

I don't know how you could claim that the current governments in Iraq and Afghanistan are worse than Saddam and the Taliban.

Quote:
No cause that's incredibly specific to Saddam.
Actually it is incredibly specific to Saddam, unless of course your willing to name a leader over the past 30 years that has invaded and attacked four different countries unprovoked just to name a few things.

Quote:
I can name you an Asian type leader of a small island in the pacific who has a lil' nickname and tested some short range missiles over some ocean on or around the July 4th holiday. Said individual is communist and really doesn't like the Japanese either.
Wow, a leader that has never launched an unprovoked invasion or an attack on another country has TESTED short range missiles. There are actually multiple leaders around the world that fit that description. Compare that to SADDAM who has actually USED short and medium range ballistic missiles against other countries like Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Israel.

The United States, France, United Kingdom, Russia all have ballistic missiles and test them, although they usually do so with out violating international resolutions or laws.
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Old 08-13-2009, 03:27 PM   #279
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Originally Posted by AnnRKeyintheUSA
Obama is the first president ever to do this. The IRS is now going to go after rich people with Swiss bank accounts and has a deal where the Swiss rat them out. I think this is terrible, since they put their money there believing they'd be safe. It should be 'grandfathered' and just stop new ones, though if I got rich I'd want to hide it there too. It's rude to change the rules and then go after them now because some may owe for many years. It's a dirty trick because they were led to believe their accounts were private.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anitram
Are you for real??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melon
What's "dirty" is the fact that these people opened them in the first place, with the intent to conceal income. That's tax evasion. And it's been illegal from the start. And these people knew it from the start. For Switzerland to aid in international money laundering, it would make them no better than other shady entities like the Cayman Islands, and it appears that Switzerland is now prepared to be more transparent. That does not change the fact that what these individuals have done from the start has been illegal, in regards to money laundering and tax evasion. Now they're just more likely to get caught.

Whoah, let's take a step back here guys. Are we saying we are comfortable with private institutions providing customer details to foreign governments merely on the suspicion that they may have committed a crime?
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Old 08-13-2009, 03:29 PM   #280
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Whoah, let's take a step back here guys. Are we saying we are comfortable with private institutions providing customer details to foreign governments merely on the suspicion that they may have committed a crime?
Isn't that the principle behind court subpoenas and extradition treaties?
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