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Old 08-12-2009, 09:52 AM   #221
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how far do you think the government would have to go for these "milita" groups to be legitimate?
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Old 08-12-2009, 10:01 AM   #222
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some pretty interesting comments on the bottom
Not that different to what you'd get with any other story on the AOL site.
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Old 08-12-2009, 10:03 AM   #223
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Not that different to what you'd get with any other story on the AOL site.
true

i found some of the more intelligent comments interesting, the ones talking about trying to link these "militia" groups to terrorism.

i believe there are 2 types of these "milita" groups:

1. the ones that are legitimately against big government, excessive taxes, eroding of freedom and civil rights, etc regardless of who is president.
2. the ones that just hate obama, dont really have a stance other than the liberals, socialists, democrats, etc are the enemy.

obviously the 1st will probably dislike Obama, but more for his policies, rather than he is black and a democrat.
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Old 08-12-2009, 10:15 AM   #224
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how far do you think the government would have to go for these "milita" groups to be legitimate?
To the point where there were no other means. If rights were truly taken away and your vote didn't matter... Then at least they would be somewhat legitimate but not useful. I think true massive protests, not just fringe groups would have to be tried and failed in order to ever make these groups legitimate, therefore, almost never.

They are fringe quacks, nothing more, nothing less at this point.
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Old 08-12-2009, 10:15 AM   #225
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Obama is the first president ever to do this. The IRS is now going to go after rich people with Swiss bank accounts and has a deal where the Swiss rat them out. I think this is terrible, since they put their money there believing they'd be safe. It should be 'grandfathered' and just stop new ones, though if I got rich I'd want to hide it there too. It's rude to change the rules and then go after them now because some may owe for many years. It's a dirty trick because they were led to believe their accounts were private.

US, Swiss cement deal on secret UBS bank accounts - Yahoo! News

US, Swiss cement deal on secret UBS bank accounts

By JESSICA GRESKO, Associated Press Writer Jessica Gresko, Associated Press Writer – 16 mins ago

MIAMI – The U.S. government and Swiss banking giant UBS AG have reached an agreement in a case seeking names of some 52,000 suspected American tax evaders with billions in secret Swiss accounts, but details may remain under wraps until next week, officials said.

Lawyers for the government and UBS told a federal judge in a brief conference call they had initialed a deal after a delay last week to settle undisclosed details.

The Internal Revenue Service, which initiated the case against UBS earlier this year, said in a statement the deal "protects the United States government's interests." But the two-sentence statement from IRS Commissioner Doug Shulman added only that more details will be released when the Swiss government signs the agreement as early as next week.

The IRS earlier this year asked U.S. District Judge Alan S. Gold in Miami to force Zurich-based UBS to turn over names of some 52,000 American clients believed to be hiding nearly $15 billion in assets in secret accounts.

UBS and the Swiss government had resisted, arguing that to do so would violate Swiss banking confidentiality laws that date back centuries.

The Swiss and U.S. governments announced at the end of July they had agreed in principle on major issues but released no details. They had hoped to present a final deal at a hearing Aug. 7, but resolving their differences has taken longer.

At the latest hearing Wednesday, the judge asked Stuart Gibson, the lead Justice Department lawyer in the case, whether an agreement had been reached.

"The answer is 'yes,' your honor," Gibson answered. "The parties have initialed agreements. It will take a little time for the agreements to be signed in final form."

An attorney for UBS, Eugene Stearns, thanked the judge for allowing the case to be brought to what he called a "successful conclusion."

The phone conference lasted less than three minutes.

UBS paid a $780 million penalty earlier this year and turned over names of about 300 American clients in a deferred prosecution agreement with the Justice Department. In that case, UBS admitted helping U.S. citizens evade taxes, which experts say is not a violation of Swiss bank secrecy laws.

So far, three UBS customers whose names were divulged under the prior agreement have pleaded guilty to tax charges in federal court. Hundreds of others holders of secret accounts at UBS and other Swiss banks have voluntarily come forward to the IRS under an amnesty program that requires payment of taxes and penalties but generally does not include the threat of prison.

That amnesty program ends Sept. 23.

New York-listed shares in UBS were trading 2 percent higher at $15.
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Old 08-12-2009, 10:24 AM   #226
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It's "rude" to go after those that cheat?
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Old 08-12-2009, 10:40 AM   #227
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It's "rude" to go after those that cheat?
Obviously, it's always rude to expect the wealthiest citizens to pay more taxes than the middle class and poor. Let it trickle down, my friend. Don't you trust The Gipper and W? And what better way to start makin' it rain than hiding large amounts of the green stuff in illegal off-shore tax havens where it will never benefit anyone but the owner? I can smell the innovation and job creation now. Thanks rich people!
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Old 08-12-2009, 11:08 AM   #228
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Anybody remember the media making a big deal of these 2002 protests, or implying that they represent the whole Democratic Party? I didn't think so...

Analysis: Press Largely Ignored Incendiary Rhetoric at Bush Protest - Political News - FOXNews.com

News outlets that are focusing on the incendiary rhetoric of conservatives outside President Obama's town hall meeting Tuesday ignored the incendiary rhetoric -- and even violence -- of liberals outside an appearance by former President George W. Bush in 2002.

When Bush visited Portland, Ore., for a fundraiser, protesters stalked his motorcade, assailed his limousine and stoned a car containing his advisers. Chanting "Bush is a terrorist!", the demonstrators bullied passers-by, including gay softball players and a wheelchair-bound grandfather with multiple sclerosis.

One protester even brandished a sign that seemed to advocate Bush's assassination. The man held a large photo of Bush that had been doctored to show a gun barrel pressed against his temple.

"BUSH: WANTED, DEAD OR ALIVE," read the placard, which had an X over the word "ALIVE."

Another poster showed Bush's face with the words: "F--- YOU, MOTHERF---ER!"

A third sign urged motorists to "HONK IF YOU HATE BUSH." A fourth declared: "CHRISTIAN FASCISM," with a swastika in place of the letter S in each word.

Although reporters from numerous national news organizations were traveling with Bush and witnessed the protest, none reported that protesters were shrieking at Republican donors epithets like "Slut!" "Whore!" and "Fascists!"

Frank Dulcich, president and CEO of Pacific Seafood Group, had a cup of liquid thrown into his face, and then was surrounded by a group of menacing protesters, including several who wore masks. Donald Tykeson, 75, who had multiple sclerosis and was confined to a wheelchair, was blocked by a thug who threatened him.


Protesters slashed the tires of several state patrol cruisers and leapt onto an occupied police car, slamming the hood and blocking the windshield with placards. A female police officer was knocked to the street by advancing protesters, badly injuring her wrist.

The angry protest grew so violent that the Secret Service was forced to take the highly unusual step of using a backup route for Bush's motorcade because the primary route had been compromised by protesters, one of whom pounded his fist on the president's moving limousine.

All the while, angry demonstrators brandished signs with incendiary rhetoric, such as "9/11 - YOU LET IT HAPPEN, SHRUB," and "BUSH: BASTARD CHILD OF THE SUPREME COURT." One sign read: "IMPEACH THE COURT-APPOINTED JUNTA AND THE FASCIST, EGOMANIACAL, BLOOD-SWILLING BEAST!"

Yet none of these signs were cited in the national media's coverage of the event. By contrast, the press focused extensively on over-the-top signs held by Obama critics at the president's town hall event held Tuesday in New Hampshire.

The lead story in Wednesday's Washington Post, for example, is headlined: "Obama Faces 'Scare Tactics' Head-On."

"As the president spoke, demonstrators outside held posters declaring him a socialist and dubbing him 'Obamahdinejad,' in reference to Iran's president," the Post reported. "People screamed into bullhorns to protest a bigger government role in health care. 'Nobama Deathcare!' one sign read. A young girl held up a sign that said: 'Obama Lies, Grandma Dies.' Images of a protester wearing what appeared to be a gun were shown on television."

On Sunday, The New York Times reported that a Democratic congressman discovered that "an opponent of health care reform hanged him in effigy" and was confronted by "200 angry conservatives." The article lamented "increasingly ugly scenes of partisan screaming matches, scuffles, threats and even arrests."

No such coverage was given to the Portland protest of Bush by The New York Times or the Washington Post, which witnessed the protest.


-------

Well, that's not very civil at all, now, is it?
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Old 08-12-2009, 11:09 AM   #229
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the demonstrators bullied passers-by, including gay softball players and a wheelchair-bound grandfather with multiple sclerosis.
those animals!
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Old 08-12-2009, 11:18 AM   #230
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Looks like we have a plant, here. Can't wait to hear what Olbermann says about this...

Couple on Cavuto, Blkman with Hitler/Obama Dingal plant

A couple that were at Dingell's TH meeting said there was a man outside with a sign comparing Obama to Adolf Hitler. After the meeting ended and when everyone was leaving this same man was handing out Dingell campaign flyers.

Go ahead, FYM. Condemn this.
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Old 08-12-2009, 11:32 AM   #231
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Anybody remember the media making a big deal of these 2002 protests, or implying that they represent the whole Democratic Party? I didn't think so...


Well, that's not very civil at all, now, is it?
So "normal" Republicans like yourself aren't buying all the stuff that the protesters are pushing outside these town hall meetings then? That's just a few fringe loonies, right, that think Obama is "dismantling this country" and is going to take the country down the road to socialism etc?

There's not really a real groundswell of angry opposition to healthcare reform. That's just the liberal media blowing things out of proportion to make conservatives look bad right?

Can't have it both ways, son.
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Old 08-12-2009, 11:33 AM   #232
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Looks like we have a plant, here. Can't wait to hear what Olbermann says about this...

Couple on Cavuto, Blkman with Hitler/Obama Dingal plant

A couple that were at Dingell's TH meeting said there was a man outside with a sign comparing Obama to Adolf Hitler. After the meeting ended and when everyone was leaving this same man was handing out Dingell campaign flyers.

Go ahead, FYM. Condemn this.
I condemn it!

Happy?

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Old 08-12-2009, 11:47 AM   #233
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You know Obama has his hand in all this.

I wouldn't be surprised if he forced Sasha and Malia to make up some of these posters over the weekend with their Crayola markers. Simply disgusting.


Honestly, what is your point? Democrats have assholes in their party too??? YOU DON'T SAY!
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Old 08-12-2009, 11:55 AM   #234
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Anybody remember the media making a big deal of these 2002 protests, or implying that they represent the whole Democratic Party? I didn't think so...
Does Fox, Rush, or Hannity count as media? Then yes... What media outlet has implied they rep the Republican party?

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Originally Posted by 2861U2 View Post
Looks like we have a plant, here. Can't wait to hear what Olbermann says about this...

Couple on Cavuto, Blkman with Hitler/Obama Dingal plant

A couple that were at Dingell's TH meeting said there was a man outside with a sign comparing Obama to Adolf Hitler. After the meeting ended and when everyone was leaving this same man was handing out Dingell campaign flyers.

Go ahead, FYM. Condemn this.
Your source is a guy on a palm pilot? Really? Yes I'm sure Olbermann we'll be right on this, just as soon as he's covered the liberal who spotted a tea bagger pouring sugar in Obama's gas tank, that person reported was on a palm pilot as well...
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Old 08-12-2009, 11:56 AM   #235
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the liberal who spotted a tea bagger pouring sugar in Obama's gas tank
tea bagger
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Old 08-12-2009, 11:57 AM   #236
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Looks like we have a plant, here. Can't wait to hear what Olbermann says about this...

Couple on Cavuto, Blkman with Hitler/Obama Dingal plant

A couple that were at Dingell's TH meeting said there was a man outside with a sign comparing Obama to Adolf Hitler. After the meeting ended and when everyone was leaving this same man was handing out Dingell campaign flyers.

Go ahead, FYM. Condemn this.
I'm not condemning anything based on ridiculous hearsay. So this "couple" claims they saw this? If it's true, it's terrible. That doesn't mean Rep. Dingell (who, by the way, is my rep., and one of the best politicians in Congress right now) planted him there. He could easily be a delusional person who came on his own to as you say create "fake" Right outrage while actually being a Dingell supporter. Or maybe this "couple" were some opponents to universal health care, or some imaginary "liberal take-over" fear-mongers or loons afraid having a *gasp* African American in the White House, or a host of other genuine sentiments that some, not all. some lunatics on the fringe are genuinely afraid of. This is exactly what the Right-wing press and blogosphere does, they'll take a story like this one (that's impossible to prove unless someone has actual evidence) and then create a straw man rage over it until it leaks into mainstream media. It's ridiculous to get so worked up over something that can't truly be proven. You should know better than that.


ETA: I wonder why this "couple" felt the need to point out that this supposed plant was black.
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Old 08-12-2009, 12:25 PM   #237
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Can't have it both ways, son.
I'm not getting your point. Aren't you trying to have it both ways? Think about how you feel about all these protesters you're seeing on TV. Now, do you feel that exact same way- if not worse- about the people in that article? If not, that's unfair.

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Honestly, what is your point? Democrats have assholes in their party too??? YOU DON'T SAY!
My point is that it is now known that there are Obama supporters out there posing as conservatives to make them look bad. And the media will film them and run with it, and say "Hey, look at the conservatives comparing Obama to Hitler."

I now expect all of you to assume that it very well might be a Democrat in disguise whenever you see someone holding an offensive anti-Obama poster, and to not assume it's a conservative until you have been given proven, undeniable evidence.

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What media outlet has implied they rep the Republican party?
Just about everyone on MSNBC.

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Your source is a guy on a palm pilot? Really? Yes I'm sure Olbermann we'll be right on this, just as soon as he's covered the liberal who spotted a tea bagger pouring sugar in Obama's gas tank, that person reported was on a palm pilot as well...
He was on Cavuto last night.

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ETA: I wonder why this "couple" felt the need to point out that this supposed plant was black.
I don't think it's out of line to feel something may possibly be fishy if you see a black person protesting Obama.
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Old 08-12-2009, 12:28 PM   #238
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Looks like we have a plant, here. Can't wait to hear what Olbermann says about this...

Couple on Cavuto, Blkman with Hitler/Obama Dingal plant

A couple that were at Dingell's TH meeting said there was a man outside with a sign comparing Obama to Adolf Hitler. After the meeting ended and when everyone was leaving this same man was handing out Dingell campaign flyers.

Go ahead, FYM. Condemn this.
It is possible that these people don't like Obama, they work for an Insurance Company or something, and like Dingell.

Dingell has been in the pocket of the Big Auto makers for years, he constantly worked against raising the mileage standards.

Quote:
Dingell has opposed raising mandatory automobile fuel efficiency standards, which he helped to write in the 1970s.

An avid sportsman and hunter, he strongly opposes gun control, and is a former board member of the National Rifle Association. For many years, Dingell has received an A+ rating from the NRA.

Dingell has drawn criticism for his ties to the automotive industry.[14] The three largest contributors to his campaign for the 2006 election cycle are political action committees, employees, or other affiliates of General Motors, Ford Motor Company, and DaimlerChrysler;[15] since 1989, intermediaries for these corporations have contributed more than $US 600,000 to his campaign.[16] Dingell also holds an unknown quantity, more than $US 1 million,[17] in assets through General Motors stock options and savings-stock purchase programs; his spouse, Debbie Dingell, worked as a lobbyist for the corporation until they married, whereupon she moved to an administrative position there.[18] At present Ms. Dingell is a senior executive at General Motors and vice chair of the General Motors Foundation.[19] On November 11, 2008, American columnist Thomas Friedman wrote about the lack of innovative business culture in American auto industry, singling out Representative John Dingell:
“ The blame for this travesty not only belongs to the auto executives, but must be shared equally with the entire Michigan delegation in the House and Senate, virtually all of whom, year after year, voted however the Detroit automakers and unions instructed them to vote. That shielded General Motors, Ford and Chrysler from environmental concerns, mileage concerns and the full impact of global competition that could have forced Detroit to adapt long ago. Indeed, if and when they do have to bury Detroit, I hope that all the current and past representatives and senators from Michigan have to serve as pallbearers. And no one has earned the “honor” of chief pallbearer more than the Michigan Representative John Dingell, the chairman of the House Energy and Commerce Committee who is more responsible for protecting Detroit to death than any single legislator.[20]


and the source for this ???? > stock pirate posting from his palm pilot?????

on a message board

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Skip to comments.
Couple on Cavuto, Blkman with Hitler/Obama Dingal plant
Cavuto on Fox | 9/10/2009 | Neil Cavuto

Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 1:25:22 PM by stockpirate

A couple that were at Dingals TH meeting said there was a black man outside with a sign comparing Obama the Adolf Hitler. After the meeting ended and when everyone was leaving this same man was handing out Dingal campaign flyers.

Sorry no link, I'm on my Palm but maybe someone can download it from Fox and post the link.

This is big!
TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events; US: Michigan
KEYWORDS: 111th; angrymob; cavuto; dingell; obamafascism; townhalls
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Old 08-12-2009, 12:30 PM   #239
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One of the comments on the link you posted says that the guy was a Lyndon LaRouche supporter.

Basically it's just bringing out all kinds of sometimes bat shit crazy people with who-knows-what affiliations and some attention whores. Who knew that health care reform could do such a thing?
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Old 08-12-2009, 12:33 PM   #240
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My point is that it is now known that there are Obama supporters out there posing as conservatives to make them look bad. And the media will film them and run with it, and say "Hey, look at the conservatives comparing Obama to Hitler."
How is it now known?

I saw a tea bagger with a klan membership card. So is it now known, since I put it in writing on the internet?
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Originally Posted by 2861U2 View Post
I now expect all of you to assume that it very well might be a Democrat in disguise whenever you see someone holding an offensive anti-Obama poster, and to not assume it's a conservative until you have been given proven, undeniable evidence.
That would be poor logic.


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Originally Posted by 2861U2 View Post
Just about everyone on MSNBC.
You're really going to have to do better than that, a quote, source something other than your hatred of the station.


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Originally Posted by 2861U2 View Post
He was on Cavuto last night.
Yes because he's never had liars on his show before... Evidence is key in journalism, well real journalism that is...


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I don't think it's out of line to feel something may possibly be fishy if you see a black person protesting Obama.
So we should all be fishy of Steele?
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