Obama General Discussion II

[deep]

Citing Deficit, Obama Freezing Federal Worker Pay - ABC News

this should help with independents and tea party types?

do you think?

 

[BVS]

He's already getting nods from independent types, but the Tea Party crowd won't give him any props until he changes his skin color...

 

[financeguy]

Obama is a wonderful person and a man of the world.

Really? And there was me thinking he is the biggest lightweight in global politics (a role for which there is plenty of competition).

 

[2861U2]

He's already getting nods from independent types, but the Tea Party crowd won't give him any props until he changes his skin color...

Pathetic.

 

[BVS]

I was dead serious too 2861

 

[PhilsFan]

He's already getting nods from independent types, but the Tea Party crowd won't give him any props until the Koch Brothers say they should.

Fixed.

 

[anitram]

Really? And there was me thinking he is the biggest lightweight in global politics (a role for which there is plenty of competition).

None of that has anything to do with what I said.

In fact I think that Obama is too good of a man to be an effective politician.

 

[financeguy]

None of that has anything to do with what I said.

In fact I think that Obama is too good of a man to be an effective politician.

Where's the goodness? Explain to me why he's any more good than, say, GWB. To me, he's a neo-liberal elitist who bailed out Wall Street, an empty suit backed by private banks. His administration has utterly failed to take tough action against the banksters precisely because his administration is deeply in hock to them (I'm not saying the European governments are any better, they're probably worse), and his foreign policy is a complete f******* shambles. (Pardon the French).

But, yeah, agreed on the lack of effectiveness.

 

[anitram]

I agree with some of what you said.

Though they have passed bills dealing with the banking industry in general and regulations specifically that I think you are giving him zero credit for and in fact I think a lot of people really fail to understand. He should have gone further, absolutely, because he had an unprecedented feeling of goodwill from the public who wanted to nail these assholes to the wall.

But I am cognizant of the fact, which you seem to fail to acknowledge at all, that the American president can't get anything done at all due to the political climate, the set up of Congress, and in Obama's case specifically, the Democratic party's absolute lack of any kind of conviction or willingness to act.

Washington and America are a total disaster, politically and economically.

 

[Canadiens1131]

I don't really buy the 'Obama is a man of inaction' or 'doesn't know how to lead' bullshit. People try to fault him on not having a strong opinion one way or another like W., which is fucking ridiculous. The guy is more centerist than the Republicans or the Democrats want him to be.

His biggest mistake as far as 'getting things done' has been choices for White House staff; I'll fault him on that.

Actually, no, his biggest mistake has been trying to get the Republicans on board with anything, and then expecting the congressional Democrats to actually get their finger out.

I just think Washington is fundamentally broken, and President Palin will find she same thing out when she's elected.

 

[kramwest1]

and President Palin will find she same thing out when she's elected.

Along those lines...
Some of my local friends are looking into what it would take to rent a house and register in Michele Bachmann's district just so we can vote against her next time.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

So far he hasn't been able to get unemployment extended-not even with his Slurpee summit. So that's what those people are facing for the holidays.

Not entirely his fault of course, but he will be blamed for it.

 

[Canadiens1131]

Hey the GOP is the party of the everyday American, as long as the everyday American family makes more than $1,000,000 a year and does not need unemployment benefits extended because of structural unemployment

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Hey the GOP is the party of the everyday American, as long as the everyday American family makes more than $1,000,000 a year and does not need unemployment benefits extended because of structural unemployment

Exactly. And then of course there's this as well, to show just how much the Republicans truly care about the "average American":

Republicans block child nutrition bill - Yahoo! News

Yeah, you go ahead, Americans, and keep believing that the Republican Party actually give any sort of a damn about you. That all their statements to you are something more than mere lip service.

It's just so amazing.

Angela

 

[Canadiens1131]

You know, I've given Obama and the White House the benefit of the doubt, but if they capitulate on tax cuts for the rich I'm officially off the party train. I admire Obama's desire to be a centrist and work with legislators across the aisle, but unfortunately he just keeps going back to the Republican party when they obviously do not want to legislate. It's almost a masochistic relationship at this point.

The only thing that could restore my faith in the White House is if they force a government shutdown in spring.

 

[corianderstem]

I can't keep all the different legislation straight, but are the Bush tax cuts lumped in with things like the unemployment benefits and employer tuition assistance being tax free (I only bring that one up because it's a big issue for me at work if it doesn't get extended)?

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

^I think the Republicans are trying to lump those in to try to get the tax cuts for the rich continued. Like hostage taking.

I saw this the other night and it just made me love him even more. It was extremely sexy

Anderson Cooper - Birther | CNN - Interview | Mediaite

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

^I think the Republicans are trying to lump those in to try to get the tax cuts for the rich continued. Like hostage taking.

Yeah, I read that in the USA Today paper this morning. The article said that if the Democrats want to continue the benefits, that may be their best option at this point, to stick it on the tax cuts stuff. Charming, no ?

If that's the case, it means the Republicans will likely get what they want on the tax stuff again and the Democrats will be stuck in a lose-lose situation again. Because for some reason, even though it's the Republicans who are halting the unemployment benefits and supporting tax cuts that would only help the rich, and even though this fact is blatant news to everyone who can read and hear, if the unemployment stuff does get tied to extending the tax cuts, and the Democrats refuse to support the tax legislation despite the fact that it'll unfortunately also hurt the unemployment benefits because they realize that extending the tax cuts will only wind up benefiting the wealthy and further hurt those who are struggling AND just lost their benefits to boot, they'll STILL be the ones to get blamed for it. They should get blamed for not standing up to the Republicans and telling them they aren't going to fall for their tricks, yes, but this catch-22 wouldn't exist to begin with if the Republicans would just grow the hell up and quit playing these stupid, obnoxious games.

I saw this the other night and it just made me love him even more. It was extremely sexy

Anderson Cooper - Birther | CNN - Interview | Mediaite

It is so, so hard for me to take anyone seriously when they start spouting this stuff. So comforting to know people are more concerned about this instead of actually solving the problems at hand. Our economy is struggling. I really don't give a damn where my president was born at this point and time, I care more about making sure my family can afford food and a place to live and things of that sort. Can we please, PLEASE just drop this insanity now?

Anderson Cooper rocks. Controlled, measured, calm (much more so than I would be at this point), intelligent, AND with the FACTS (yeah, remember those?) behind him to boot. He handled that guy incredibly well.

Angela

 

[adam4bono]

Unemployment went up to 9.8% this past month. Hard times ahead for Obama. Ironic that part of the reason he was elected was because of the falling economic situation and it may be the reason he does not get re-elected as well.

 

[BEAL]

So looks like the Dems are going to roll over again.

GOP says they will not work on any bill until the tax cuts are extended for EVERYONE. Democrats want the top earners bracket to expire.

Reports are coming out that the tax cuts will be temporary extended for all groups, as well as unemployment. So let's just keep piling on that debt!!!

And of course with the news of this "compromise", Mitch McConnell states the GOP will still not work on any bill.

Sometimes I wish the Democrats would just stand up for something.

 

[kramwest1]

So looks like the Dems are going to roll over again.

GOP says they will not work on any bill until the tax cuts are extended for EVERYONE. Democrats want the top earners bracket to expire.

Reports are coming out that the tax cuts will be temporary extended for all groups, as well as unemployment. So let's just keep piling on that debt!!!

And of course with the news of this "compromise", Mitch McConnell states the GOP will still not work on any bill.

Sometimes I wish the Democrats would just stand up for something.

Did the neo-deficit hawk Republicans layout how they will pay for these extended tax cuts?


:crickets:





Hmm, I didn't think so.

 

[BEAL]

I'll say this, Bush would have never given in. You gotta admire that if he believed in something, he wouldn't back down.

Obama has backed down to everything. Yes he's gotten some stuff passed, but they're watered down versions that can barely be considered baby steps towards his pre-presidental goals.

It would have sucked to have taxes go up, and I would have kept a lot more respect for Obama had he stayed the course.

Republicans and Tea Party stated for the past year reducing the spending, and cutting the deficit back.

Instead, they continue to spew bullshit because they know it won't ever bite them. You watch, the extension of these cuts and the additional 700 Billion or whatever it's adding to our debt will be used against the Democrats, and there's nothing they can do about it.

GOP will be known as the party who fought to keep taxes low, and the Democrats are going to be known for increasing the debt.

 

[kramwest1]

GOP will be known as the party who fought to keep taxes low, and the Democrats are going to be known for increasing the debt.

That about nails it.


What I don't understand about Obama is that he has compromised on many things from an already weak position. I thought most people know that if you are negotiating something, you don't start with your bottom line and then cave on it. You go for the maximum that you want and work down to compromise.

Obama and the Dems should have come from the position of "not only are we going to let the tax cuts expire for the top 2 percent income earners, we are going to raise their taxes even more: a new 45-50 percent top tax rate. We need to pay down this national debt, and we're not going to do it on the backs of the middle class."

(But, just like with Healthcare, they didn't start from Single Payer and compromise. They started with the basics and got the bare bones. )

 

[Canadiens1131]

I think Obama is capitulating on tax cuts in an attempt to get the unemployment benefits and missile treaty with Russia through.

It's pretty obvious the current crop of GOP reps won't give into anything (even if it's for the good of their shit-for-brains constituents) until Obams is out of office. Dark times ahead.

 

[BEAL]

that was the deal, tax cuts for unemployment benefits.

Nothing is going to get done. GOP as always has the power, even when they're voted out, they are the best at spinning the news their way.

GOP wants to just get richer, and help their buddies out. Democrats want to get rich, but struggle with the image and ability to get rich and appear like they care about the rest of us.

I really think this country is doomed. Glad I don't have kids.

 

[Canadiens1131]

Glad I have dual citizenship with Canada

 

[Irvine511]

I think Obama is capitulating on tax cuts in an attempt to get the unemployment benefits and missile treaty with Russia through.

It's pretty obvious the current crop of GOP reps won't give into anything (even if it's for the good of their shit-for-brains constituents) until Obams is out of office. Dark times ahead.

yup.

and DADT as well. it's all political calculus. it's never a good thing to have people scream about how you raised taxes "on millions of Americans." the progressive Left (like me) have nowhere else to go, and triangulation paved the way in the 1990s.

plus, it guarantees that the rich will have a Merry Christmas this year! phew! and they'll go back to putting their money in mutual funds and not spend it at all because tax cuts don't create jobs.

 

[sue4u2]

I think Obama is capitulating on tax cuts in an attempt to get the unemployment benefits and missile treaty with Russia through.

It's pretty obvious the current crop of GOP reps won't give into anything (even if it's for the good of their shit-for-brains constituents) until Obams is out of office. Dark times ahead.

It's not obstructionist tactics it's extortion. Why is this legal?
If they can do that, I should be able to file a working class action lawsuit.
I joke, but I'm really, seriously mad.
I'm willing to pay my share to lower the debt - when they pay theirs.

The problem is the lower 23% of us that pay taxes, can't even begin to pay off what has already been rung for the benefit of the top 1 or 2 percent.
They - the congress ran it up let them and their corporate cronies pay for it. Shouldn't be a problem while they still have all this tax free money. Not as if they've been pumping it back into to economy or anything.
*end of rant*

(edited) I wasn't ranting at you Canadiens - I just like the shit -for brains constituents line

 

[mobvok]

Well, this looks curious:

The jobless situation seems to be reaching a crisis point. The Department of Labor's Bureau of Labor Statistics noted that not only was the unemployment rate at 9.8 percent (15.1 million individuals) for November, but that 6.3 million of those jobless were long-term unemployed (27 weeks or longer). And since statistics indicate that it takes at least 34 weeks for the average jobseeker to return to work, that would be eight weeks without an income if not for the unemployment benefits extensions currently used by Congress -- that expired on November 30. Still, even if Congress reauthorizes the unemployment benefits extensions and emergency extensions (the Tier I-IV categorizations), 4 million more 99ers could join the already over 2 million 99ers who have seen the exhaustion of their regular, extended, and emergency extended benefits and still remain unemployed.

As Shahien Nasiripour reported in the Huffington Post, the President's Council of Economic Advisers concluded in a study that the rising number of 99ers could have a negative impact on the overall economy in the coming year. A staggering number, some 4 million individuals, will lose their unemployment benefits extensions in the coming year -- and many of those will not return to work.

To clarify, there's no "5th tier" for unemployment benefits in this framework, which means that there will be no extension beyond the current 99 weeks of aid.

2 million people have currently exhausted their benefits. 6 million will have done so by the end of 2011. And the next tax cuts to bargain away wouldn't expire for another year.

It's ~$300 billion in stimulus over 2011-2012, about 80% of which is tax cuts and 20% spending. So I guess that's the current going rate for compromise. The problem from my view is that come 2011 the Republicans are going to keep holding critical bills (like the debt ceiling) hostage in exchange for spending cuts, which would undermine whatever stimulative effect is left.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Of course the Republicans won't tell us how they're going to pay for this stuff, Mark. In order to do that, they'd have to come up with a plan, they'd have to actually, like, work, and stuff (funny how the party that promotes self-sufficiency and hard work and personal responsibility doesn't seem to want to live up to its own beliefs).

Sometimes I wish the Democrats would just stand up for something.

You and me and all sorts of other people . It'd be so nice, wouldn't it? They said a final decision was yet to come on this issue, so who knows, some sort of miracle move could still happen, but more likely than not...yeah. Nothing will change.

I'll say this, Bush would have never given in. You gotta admire that if he believed in something, he wouldn't back down.

This, pretty much. Like I said, the Republicans, at the end of the day, will all work together to push through what they want, doesn't matter what anyone else says. The Democrats, Obama, and those who voted for them, need to begin doing the same thing. We don't want the Democrats to cave anymore on anything? Stage protests, send mass letters, start campaigns, do something, anything imaginable to get the message to the Democrats and Obama that we want them to actually stick to their guns. I don't know if part of the reason they cave is that they're scared of what voters will say, but once they know for sure that we'd be behind them if they stand up to the Republicans and remain defiant, that might actually help.

I still am all for the idea of compromise, and if it can happen, fantastic, let's go for it. But right now it's pretty damn obvious that the Republicans aren't interested at all in such a thing. We tried. It didn't work. So let's move ahead without them. Let's make it completely crystal clear to the American people how and why each party is acting the way they are. If we manage to start getting stuff done and turning things around and the Republicans are seen standing around doing squat, that should make the choice pretty obvious in 2012.

Angela