Obama General Discussion II

[BVS]

It would be nice to hear some real solutions to our problems in America.

A society works great when you have ideas presented from all around, unfortunately the conservatives haven't produced any REAL solutions in years.

 

[Canadiens1131]

I think the move to release the birth certificate must have come from Obama out of frustration.

It's well-known that the GOP establishment and the party at a nat'l level want Trump to go away, as well as any further political aspirations from Palin. Surprised the White House decided to discredit the loonies making the Republican Party look bad in the coming election cycle.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

ya know what's fucking nuts? obamer was in my hood the other day. completely shut down traffic on the east side for hours, delayed all forms of mass transit from getting in and out of the city, and probably cost a hefty sum's worth of overtime... so he could go to a couple of fundraisers.

couldn't we have just given him a donation and he could stay home, that way i don't have to be sitting in a claustrophobic subway car under the east river for half an hour? fuck.

 

[deep]

you think you had it bad

He is in Alabama now and look what he is leaving behind.

 

[yolland]

^ I thought about posting a thread about that, but there's not really anything to "discuss." The death toll is currently at 329 and they're still going through wreckage, thousands have been hospitalized as well. It's horrible.

 

[kramwest1]

^ I thought about posting a thread about that, but there's not really anything to "discuss." The death toll is currently at 329 and they're still going through wreckage, thousands have been hospitalized as well. It's horrible.

It could be worth discussing why there aren't better building standards: mandatory safe-rooms, impact-resistant windows, 100+mph shingles/roofing, hurricane ties on the rafters, etc.
That gets a little wonky, but is in my industry.
Still, every house that gets rebuilt will be essentially the same as it was, and therefore subject to damage/destruction again.


Very sad. Unbelievable death toll.

 

[deep]

yes building codes are important

we just updated our city general plan and zoning / building codes.

I spent 2 hours a week for a couple of years, as a resident / owner participant.

 

[the iron horse]

More reading fun

Update: Chronicle responds after Obama Administration punishes reporter for using multimedia, then claims they didn't : Bronstein at Large

 

[maycocksean]

It could be worth discussing why there aren't better building standards: mandatory safe-rooms, impact-resistant windows, 100+mph shingles/roofing, hurricane ties on the rafters, etc.
That gets a little wonky, but is in my industry.
Still, every house that gets rebuilt will be essentially the same as it was, and therefore subject to damage/destruction again.


Very sad. Unbelievable death toll.

From what I heard, the wind speeds of these twisters were unheard of. 350 miles per hour and so on. Would the building codes have made much of a difference at that point?

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

you think you had it bad

He is in Alabama now and look what he is leaving behind.

Yes because obviously the two subjects are related and can't possibly be discussed separately.

 

[kramwest1]

From what I heard, the wind speeds of these twisters were unheard of. 350 miles per hour and so on. Would the building codes have made much of a difference at that point?

For safe rooms, yes.
Very little else is designed to take a direct hit from a tornado, but plenty of building materials/techniques can withstand 150 mph, which is more normal for tornadoes.

This obviously was a "100 Year" type of event. Generally in the U.S., we have no problem making "100 Year" flood codes, but for some reason we are way behind in hurricane and tornado building codes, especially in residential.

 

[coolian2]

it amazes me that the earthquake in christchurch recently was possibly one of the most powerful earthquakes ever recorded (in terms of ground movement - over two times the strength of gravity), yet so many houses stood*. not a really real comparison, but there's something to be said for overbuilding.


*=apparently, most other cities on earth would have had a death toll in the thousands after an earthquake involving that kind of ground movement.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Conservative firebrand and former Colorado congressman Tom Tancredo hasn't had particularly kind words for President Barack Obama. Last October, for instance, he said that the president was a greater threat to the country than Al Qaeda.

And he's long questioned where the president was actually born. When Michelle Obama described Kenya as her husband's "home country" in a speech in 2008, the anti-immigrant Tancredo responded, "If his wife says Kenya is his homeland, why don't we just send him back?"

So one might think that the release of President Obama's long-form birth certificate would humble the birther and radio host.

Not so much. In fact, Tancredo took the opportunity to gloat about his own prescience.

He issued a press release reminding readers of his comments a year ago on Alan Colmes' radio show regarding the birther controversy. Shortly after saying he had "absolutely no idea where [Obama] was born," Tancredo made these remarks about the whole fracas:

TANCREDO: Now they very well not want to show it because they want to propagate this whole thing that's going on about birthers. ... They may be doing it for that reason; I don't know why they don't want anyone to see it. ... They want it propagated because you know -

COLMES: It makes your party look nuts!

TANCREDO: Yeah well maybe that's why they don't produce document, I don't know.



He repeated that claim in the statement issued Friday. "Obama has followed Mohammed, not the religious leader, but the boxer. President Obama has pulled off the perfect Mohammed Ali rope-a-dope," he said in the release, according to the Colorado Independent.

The idea, according to Tancredo, is that Obama withheld his birth certificate until now simply for the purpose of making Republicans look foolish. And the analogy to Ali seems to suggest a begrudging admiration of the strategy.

 

[maycocksean]

Obama didn't force the Republican fringe to make this an issue for the past several years. They were the ones dopey enough to keep pushing an issue that no serious person was taking seriously.

 

[deep]

Tell us why Obama spent over 2 million dollars hiding it, for all this time??

 

[yolland]

Generally in the U.S., we have no problem making "100 Year" flood codes, but for some reason we are way behind in hurricane and tornado building codes, especially in residential.

From what I've read, the resistance to making such changes is mostly based on A) the extraordinarily localized nature of tornado damage and B) at the same time, the enormity of the area of the country within which they're likely to occur. Floods occur in known floodplains, earthquakes occur along known faultlines, hurricanes are somewhat more comparable to tornadoes but threaten a much smaller area of the country (though at the same time they reliably cause damage across most of the storm's area, when coming ashore). So, if you're comparing a proposed new housing development in a tornado-prone area with one in a flood-prone, quake-prone, or hurricane-prone area, the chances of that specific site getting hit by a tornado within any given time period are much, much lower than the corresponding chances at the other sites. Which has made Tornado Alley and Dixie Alley municipalities very reluctant to enact costly tornado safety building codes. FEMA has a quiet (read: underfunded) campaign to encourage individual homeowners in those regions to add on storm shelters/safe rooms, but they do cost several thousand dollars, so most people are going to go "Well, what are the chances really?" and pass on it.

Not saying that reasoning is adequate, especially at a time like this, but...

Are there, in fact, any municipalities in the US which actually have tornado safety building codes?

 

[kramwest1]

From what I've read, the resistance to making such changes is mostly based on A) the extraordinarily localized nature of tornado damage and B) at the same time, the enormity of the area of the country within which they're likely to occur. Floods occur in known floodplains, earthquakes occur along known faultlines, hurricanes are somewhat more comparable to tornadoes but threaten a much smaller area of the country (though at the same time they reliably cause damage across most of the storm's area, when coming ashore). So, if you're comparing a proposed new housing development in a tornado-prone area with one in a flood-prone, quake-prone, or hurricane-prone area, the chances of that specific site getting hit by a tornado within any given time period are much, much lower than the corresponding chances at the other sites. Which has made Tornado Alley and Dixie Alley municipalities very reluctant to enact costly tornado safety building codes. FEMA has a quiet (read: underfunded) campaign to encourage individual homeowners in those regions to add on storm shelters/safe rooms, but they do cost several thousand dollars, so most people are going to go "Well, what are the chances really?" and pass on it.

Not saying that reasoning is adequate, especially at a time like this, but...

Are there, in fact, any municipalities in the US which actually have tornado safety building codes?

I really don't know about any municipalities and tornado building codes, but in the Southeast, there should be wider hurricane zone building standards which would help with tornado damage. To meet the Florida Building Code, it's estimated to add at most 5 percent to a house's build cost--not minimal, but not extraordinary either.

Honestly, from what I've read, the Southeast could benefit from ANY improvement in codes. Many (most?) locales there don't have insulation standards or double-glazed window standards.

I suppose there could be a whole thread on how to improve life in the Southeast U.S. though.

The main reason I harp on this is because so often in the U.S. local lack of preparation and standards (and I point equally in my own backyard of Minnesota's flooding problem, too) end up costing the federal government because of "disaster area" declarations. And that, obviously, ends up costing all of us.

 

[yolland]

The main reason I harp on this is because so often in the U.S. local lack of preparation and standards (and I point equally in my own backyard of Minnesota's flooding problem, too) end up costing the federal government because of "disaster area" declarations. And that, obviously, ends up costing all of us.

*sigh* Yeah...we've got that in southern Indiana too, don't know whether there'll be a federal disaster declaration this time around but there are multiple local ones, National Guard everywhere sandbagging and as you've probably read, the Army Corps will most likely blow up the levee at the Ohio-Mississippi convergence in the next couple days to protect towns just upriver. To be honest I don't know much about the role of building codes in all that, though.

Honestly, from what I've read, the Southeast could benefit from ANY improvement in codes. Many (most?) locales there don't have insulation standards or double-glazed window standards.

Where I grew up in MS there were still open sewers in several neighborhoods into the 1990s, so yeah, I can pretty much guarantee you no such standards exist there. Then again, when we're talking suburbs of Birmingham or Tuscaloosa like got flattened last week, that's maybe a bit more surprising. There are so many people who live in mobile homes or basically shacks in the Deep South, and if anything the frequency of tornadoes and strong windstorms (and nearer the coast, hurricanes) is seen by many as a disincentive to sink much money into their homes, since you know one strong storm would total it anyway.

 

[Boy N Da Hood]

afta read'n thru sum of dis jenk i be leff wonder'n how much of dis critisism hav ta do wit da way obomba b run'n da cuntry n how much is just hat'n dat we hav a black man b run'n da cuntry???

 

[nirniva]

afta read'n thru sum of dis jenk i be leff wonder'n how much of dis critisism hav ta do wit da way obomba b run'n da cuntry n how much is just hat'n dat we hav a black man b run'n da cuntry???

This should be fun.

 

[Irvine511]

afta read'n thru sum of dis jenk i be leff wonder'n how much of dis critisism hav ta do wit da way obomba b run'n da cuntry n how much is just hat'n dat we hav a black man b run'n da cuntry???

irony?

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

idiocy?

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Rupert Murdoch's The Daily had some fun with the White House's unveiling of President Obama's long-form birth certificate.

On the heels of Obama's press conference Wednesday, the News Corp iPad app led with a "front page" featuring Mike Scott's illustration of Obama as Bruce Springsteen alongside the headline, "I WAS BORN IN THE U.S.A."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9mzJhvC-8E&feature=player_embedded

 

[maycocksean]

Anybody see the Obama's on Opes?

Quite impressive. Michelle is amazing!

 

[Canadiens1131]

 

[Irvine511]

something liberals "disappointed" because Obama isn't quite the Messiah should probably be reminded of:

Obama avoided a plunge into the second Great Depression. He saved the auto industry. His bank bailout may make a profit. He has withdrawn most troops from Iraq. He has ended the ban on openly gay servicemembers. He has appointed two women to the Supreme Court. He muscled universal healthcare through the Congress into law. He ended torture as the law of the land.

Abroad, since his Cairo speech, democratic revolution after revolution has occurred. From Tehran to Tunisia to Egypt, Bahrain, Syria and Yemen, the march of freedom George W Bush imagined has actually swept the region under his successor. Where Obama has failed - Israel/Palestine - he may still prevail.

But the capture and killing of bin Laden eclipses these. It does two things instantly: it tells us that an American named Barack Hussein Obama ordered the operation that killed Osama bin Laden. A man who symbolizes an integrative, tolerant, multicultural future defeated the symbol of a twisted, dark, fundamentalist past. A man who represents the human continuum of the developing and developed worlds defeated a man who seeks only one world and Shariah rule over all of it. And it also tells those who have been bombarded with lies and rumors and disgusting smears that this president, whatever they have been told, is no weakling, no terror-lover, no alien. He is as American as every new passport holder and every ancient Southern or Yankee family.

He found and killed the man Red and Blue America equally wanted found and captured or killed. And in that specific fact, a certain narrative - the narrative the degenerate right has been trying to fix to him for years - must now die. And it must die in the heart of the red states as well as in the mind of the blue ones.

Far from being somehow un-American, this president is only conceivable in America. Which makes this moment so rich with meaning and justice and, yes, hope.

The Dish | By Andrew Sullivan - The Daily Beast

 

[corianderstem]

Canadiens, that is beautiful.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

something liberals "disappointed" because Obama isn't quite the Messiah should probably be reminded of:

well... i think obama being credited for the arab spring is a bit like reagan being credited for the fall of communism... yea he did help push the domino over a bit, but they were already about to topple as it is.

 

[Irvine511]

well... i think obama being credited for the arab spring is a bit like reagan being credited for the fall of communism... yea he did help push the domino over a bit, but they were already about to topple as it is.

that's fair.

but i think the psychological impact on the Muslim world of this presidency after the Bush presidency is enormous.