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Old 03-18-2008, 05:35 PM   #81
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Originally posted by 2861U2


I take it you missed his speech this morning?

"Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes."
And you must have stopped watching/reading immediately after that.

He claimed about halfway through that he had never heard Wright spout racist rhetoric. "Controversial" is non-specific.



13:20-13:25
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Old 03-18-2008, 05:36 PM   #82
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Hillary can never know that. Hillary ain't never been called a nigger.

Hillary is married to Bill. And Bill have been good to us.
No, he ain't. Bill did us just like he did Monica Lewinsky. He was riding dirty.



This is what the father of two little girls wants then to hear in church?

From the pulpit?

sincerely?


is there anyone in america who didn't know what went on between Bill and Monica?



i'm astonished that, because he attended the church, you seem to be implying that Obama authored these speeches.
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Old 03-18-2008, 05:37 PM   #83
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Exactly. The "well, you need to understand the black experience" defense only goes so far. Wright's comments have no place in a house of worship.


really?

didn't people come here for "freedom of religion"? who are you to tell people who they can practice and preach?

hating gay people has no place in a house of worship, but that goes on all the time.
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Old 03-18-2008, 05:37 PM   #84
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Originally posted by 2861U2


I take it you missed his speech this morning?

"Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes."


so sitting in a pew is an automatic endorsement of every line of ever sermon the man has delivered over the past 30 years?
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Old 03-18-2008, 05:39 PM   #85
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It is not the size, but the controversy.

Can you imagine a President sitting in a church and hearing those kinds of remarks from the pulpit?

And trying to excuse this off, as this just being how all "black churches" are, is not true.

I have been to a few.
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Old 03-18-2008, 05:40 PM   #86
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McCain does, and he has. I think for most people, that's the end of the story, as it should be. There is a HUGE difference with Obama, though. McCain doesn't belong to Hagee's church or have a 20 year relationship with him or willingly subject his children to him. With Obama, serious questions about his judgment have arisen.

There's no double standard. Obama needs to be examined. Lord knows McCain and Hillary are.
McCain has the opposite problem. He distanced himself from these men 8 years ago and is now embracing them, which gives him credibility issues.

Do we know if all of Wright's sermons were like this, or have we just seen the two or three that would make headlines? So questioning his whole 20 year relationship seems a little knee-jerk to me...
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Old 03-18-2008, 05:41 PM   #87
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Originally posted by Irvine511

hating gay people has no place in a house of worship, but that goes on all the time.
I have never and would never vote for a candidate that had an association with a church that "hates" gays.

And when people go anywhere near there, I call them on it.
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Old 03-18-2008, 05:45 PM   #88
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Do we know if all of Wright's sermons were like this, or have we just seen the two or three that would make headlines? So questioning his whole 20 year relationship seems a little knee-jerk to me...
I guess I just disagree with you then. You seem to think that the only racist, anti-American things he ever said came from the handful of sermons that we've seen on the news. Personally, I think there are a lot more "God damn Americas" in his preaching history that will surface.
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Old 03-18-2008, 05:47 PM   #89
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

Do we know if all of Wright's sermons were like this, or have we just seen the two or three that would make headlines? .

first of all

no one has said,

he said this everyday 24/7 for the last 20 years?


Perhaps we need to go back and read what some of you said about Imus?

Eliot only paid for sex 8 times??

out of how many days? 18, 250 ??

why blow that out of proportion?
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Old 03-18-2008, 05:49 PM   #90
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


McCain has the opposite problem. He distanced himself from these men 8 years ago and is now embracing them, which gives him credibility issues.

McCain isn't "embracing" them. Have you seen Hagee on the news since his announcement of his endorsement? I don't think he's been out there on the campaign trail with McCain nor does he have a role in his team. To me, McCain is still keeping his distance from the Christian conservatives. Ask most hardcore Christian conservatives, and McCain still isn't their favorite person nor will he ever be.
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Old 03-18-2008, 06:07 PM   #91
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Originally posted by 2861U2


I guess I just disagree with you then. You seem to think that the only racist, anti-American things he ever said came from the handful of sermons that we've seen on the news. Personally, I think there are a lot more "God damn Americas" in his preaching history that will surface.
No, you seem to not be able to recognize a question. I asked, "Do we know if all of Wright's sermons were like this, or have we just seen the two or three that would make headlines?" I didn't think or assume anything.

Personally, I don't like the mention of America in any church, God bless it or damn it. Christians should be caring for the world and not just the country they live in. I think preachers on both sides of the coin are wrong.
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Old 03-18-2008, 06:10 PM   #92
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Originally posted by deep



first of all

no one has said,

he said this everyday 24/7 for the last 20 years?


Perhaps we need to go back and read what some of you said about Imus?

I asked a simple question. I didn't think or assume anything.

And Imus did have more than one instance of racism and sexism over his career.
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Old 03-18-2008, 06:12 PM   #93
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Originally posted by 2861U2


McCain isn't "embracing" them. Have you seen Hagee on the news since his announcement of his endorsement? I don't think he's been out there on the campaign trail with McCain nor does he have a role in his team. To me, McCain is still keeping his distance from the Christian conservatives. Ask most hardcore Christian conservatives, and McCain still isn't their favorite person nor will he ever be.
Not embracing them? He's completely done a 180 or several issues just to appease Hagee's crowd. Someone needs to do some reading.
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Old 03-18-2008, 06:16 PM   #94
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Not embracing them? He's completely done a 180 or several issues just to appease Hagee's crowd. Someone needs to do some reading.
and those issues are?
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Old 03-18-2008, 06:17 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
It is not the size, but the controversy.

Can you imagine a President sitting in a church and hearing those kinds of remarks from the pulpit?

And trying to excuse this off, as this just being how all "black churches" are, is not true.

I have been to a few.


it is how *some* black churches are, especially the politicized ones.

was Obama president at the time? hasn't Obama known this man for over 20 years? aren't you glad he's not as i-am-whatever-you-want-me-to-be plastic as a certain mormon from massachusetts?
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Old 03-18-2008, 06:18 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep


I have never and would never vote for a candidate that had an association with a church that "hates" gays.

And when people go anywhere near there, I call them on it.


good for you.

do you equate railing against an oppressive white establishment with saying that homosexual "acts" are abominations?
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Old 03-18-2008, 06:19 PM   #97
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and those issues are?


speaking at Bob Jones U, for example.
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Old 03-18-2008, 06:27 PM   #98
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Originally posted by Irvine511

saying that homosexual "acts" are abominations?

have you missed the times

I have called out the

'Hate the sin - love the sinner' as BULLSHIT

as just a flat out lie.

That it is teaching HATE.

the sin can not exist
without the sinner

they don't hate a behavior
they hate people
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Old 03-18-2008, 06:31 PM   #99
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do you equate
most things do not equate to other things


but many things fall on the side of
being wrong
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Old 03-18-2008, 06:33 PM   #100
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Originally posted by deep



have you missed the times

I have called out the

'Hate the sin - love the sinner' as BULLSHIT

as just a flat out lie.

That is teaching HATE.

the sin can not exist
without the sinner

they don't hate a behavior
they hate people


you've totally lost me.

and here's the issue.

what, on earth, does Pastor Wright have to do with how Obama will perform as a president of the United States?

can someone explain to me why it's so awful, so inexcusable, and, thusly, why their opinion has changed on Obama in any way, great or small, in light of these tapes of a few moments from particularly incendiary sermons?

what should Obama have done? and since he didn't do that, what does his refusal to do what he should have done say, to you, about his candidacy and his ability to lead?

has Obama not handled this well? how should he have handled it? what would you have preferred for him to do?

and, in sum, how is Obama any different of a person now than he was on March 1st?
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