Obama delivers speech on race and politics!

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Abomb-baby said:

Ummm No Mr. Obama I haven't. I guess the difference between me and you is that:

1. My church focuses on the teachings of Jesus, not on the political ideology of a church and a Pastor.




ummmm, do you know much about the political traditions of the black church? you know how churches love to take credit for the civil rights movement? that's 'cause of the black churches.




[q]2. If my Pastor had made such divisive statements, and I was touting myself to be a "Post-racial Candidate", I would find another church to attend. [/q]


so it's all about political expediency for you? you throw people under the bus after 20 years the minute they become possibly detrimental to your campaign.
 
Irvine511 said:




firstly, of that group, i find Wrights general comments to be far, far less offensive than the lives and careers of Dobson, Fallwell, Robertson, etc. and i think you'll find that all of them enjoy vastly more political power than Wright, who's really just a local preacher and who's influence probably doesn't go much beyond a few neighborhoods in Chicago.

so if we are comparing these men to each other, Wright is by far the least offensive, both in content and in influence.

however, you are correct in pointing out that McCain's relationship with Hagee doesn't compare to what has obviously been an intimate, intellectual, 20 year relationship with Obama.

does this bother me?

i will say that there is much, much more to Wright than we are hearing. an example:

[q]But I was only looking at the horizontal level. I did not understand nor could I see back then the vertical hookup that my mother and my father had. I did not know then that they were thanking him in advance for all they dared to hope he would do one day to their son, in their son, and through their son. That's why they prayed. That's why they hoped. That's why they kept on praying with no visible sign on the horizon. And I thank God I had praying parents, because now some thirty-five years later, when I look at what God has done in my life, I understand clearly why Hannah had the audacity to hope. Why my parents had the audacity to hope.

And that's why I say to you, hope is what saves us. Keep on hoping; keep on praying. God does hear and answer prayer.[/q]

and, yes, i will make a racialized distinction, because i think that matters here.

i have less of a problem with a black pastor railing against an oppressive government -- one that during his lifetime had maintained Jim Crow laws -- versus white pastors picking on minorities in the name of Jesus, and then asking for your money, and then peddling their influence into political power.

i find much of what has been tossed around by Wright to be awful. if there is one thing i've been consistent on, it's been defending the US against the insinuation that 9-11 was somehow "just desserts" for certain foreign policy decisions, that we had it coming. Wright seems to think that. i don't. and i don't think Obama does either.

finally, what continues to impress me about Obama is, first, that he hasn't tossed Wright, the man, under the bus, and, second, that he obviously has friends around who do more than kiss his ass and tell him how wonderful he is.

wish our president did that.

Our president is an idiot dammit!:censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored::censored: :censored: :censored:
 
Irvine511 said:
you throw people under the bus after 20 years the minute they become possibly detrimental to your campaign.

if they are driving the bus straight to anti-American Muslims and Louis Farrakhan is the co-pilot, you certainly don't stay on the bus.
 
Harry Vest said:
I Although I may change my mind right now at this particular moment I'm thinking America will get what it deserves - Hillary or McCain - not much difference between the two.

If you think there is NOT "much difference"" between these two-- then either you MAYBE aren't paying that much attention to certain issues, because you are more involved with other issues, OR don't think they are that important.

Here are some of Hill's Negativers for me-
# too uber corporatist {there are some corps that have learned to become good citizens of America}

# did NOT like that she' seems to have said Obama is not up to the task of defending the country as she & McC are.

But MAJOR DIfferences ARE--
*A woman's right to choose -- if you don't GET that to have a child or not can SO totally cnange a woman's life -- then yoiu need to further educate yourself...

*Do you have relatives on Social Security or Social Security Disability ?
Team B/C & McC want[ed] to PRIVAIiZE these Safety net Entitlements hillary does NOT.

*I beleive she does have a more nuanced uderstanding of the world-- even if right now she has to play her I'M really tough card because of percieved weaknesses of women on International Security issues.

my time on this puter [bah] is up, so I'll have to come back another time

I heard excerts from OB's speech....
VERY important and well said. :applaud:
hopefully get the transpcript in n4ext day or so.
 
deep said:


if they are driving the bus straight to anti-American Muslims and Louis Farrakhan is the co-pilot, you certainly don't stay on the bus.



would you like Obama to lead a lynching?
 
I just watched all 37 minutes of Barack's speech, and I am thrilled. It was very moving, sincere, and explained a bit about the Wright controversy. I still find it a bit strange that he hadn't heard anything remotely racist come out of that man's mouth in 20 years, but I can understand his connection to him and his affection for him.

I remain on the Obama bandwagon and am proud of that. This man knows what's up.
 
just like he is not a member of Louis Farrakhan's organization

I would expect him not to be a member here


all of the comparisons you keep bringing up with McCain don't hold up

unless those are the pastors from the church that McCain attends and where he claims to be a member.


I suppose quiting the church now,
could be interpreted as throwing him under the bus, because of the timing

Obama is in a jam, of his own making

It seems a bit like people wanting me to feel sorry for Bush because the Iraq thing got so messed up.


a smarted person would have chosen a smaller church closer to his home
a couple of years ago
when he started considering higher office
 
deep said:
just like he is not a member of Louis Farrakhan's organization

I would expect him not to be a member here


all of the comparisons you keep bringing up with McCain don't hold up

unless those are the pastors from the church that McCain attends and where he claims to be a member.


I suppose quiting the church now,
could be interpreted as throwing him under the bus, because of the timing

Obama is in a jam, of his own making

It seems a bit like people wanting me to feel sorry for Bush because the Iraq thing got so messed up.


a smarted person would have chosen a smaller church closer to his home
a couple of years ago
when he started considering higher office

Perhaps this isn't about what's good for the campaign.

Perhaps he's actually being sincere, and cares about the church he attends.

Is that an impossibility?
 
Abomb-baby said:
Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely – just as I’m sure many of you have heard remarks from your pastors, priests, or rabbis with which you strongly disagreed…

Ummm No Mr. Obama I haven't. I guess the difference between me and you is that:

1. My church focuses on the teachings of Jesus, not on the political ideology of a church and a Pastor.

2. If my Pastor had made such divisive statements, and I was touting myself to be a "Post-racial Candidate", I would find another church to attend.

To find a church that doesn't infuse political views is rare, either you are one of the lucky ones or you are so use to the political views they have become the teachings of Christ for you.
 
LemonMelon said:
I still find it a bit strange that he hadn't heard anything remotely racist come out of that man's mouth in 20 years

I remain on the Obama bandwagon and am proud of that. This man knows what's up.



I still find it strange that there were no WMD's in Iraq :shrug:


Go Bush/Cheney 2004 :up:
 
LemonMelon said:


Perhaps this isn't about what's good for the campaign.

Perhaps he's actually being sincere, and cares about the church he attends.

Is that an impossibility?


Hillary can never know that. Hillary ain't never been called a ******.

Hillary is married to Bill. And Bill have been good to us.
No, he ain't. Bill did us just like he did Monica Lewinsky. He was riding dirty.



This is what the father of two little girls wants then to hear in church?

From the pulpit?

sincerely?
 
deep said:



Hillary can never know that. Hillary ain't never been called a ******.

Hillary is married to Bill. And Bill have been good to us.
No, he ain't. Bill did us just like he did Monica Lewinsky. He was riding dirty.



This is what the father of two little girls wants then to hear in church?

From the pulpit?

sincerely?

In all fairness, Obama claims to have never heard such rhetoric.

So you can either label the man as a lying con-man out to cover his own ass, or use a different example.
 
deep said:



Hillary can never know that. Hillary ain't never been called a ******.

Hillary is married to Bill. And Bill have been good to us.
No, he ain't. Bill did us just like he did Monica Lewinsky. He was riding dirty.



This is what the father of two little girls wants then to hear in church?

From the pulpit?

sincerely?

Exactly. The "well, you need to understand the black experience" defense only goes so far. Wright's comments have no place in a house of worship.
 
LemonMelon said:


In all fairness, Obama claims to have never heard such rhetoric.

So you can either label the man as a lying con-man out to cover his own ass, or use a different example.

Somebody that was thinking objectively and not going with their Obama/bias wrote this:

I still find it a bit strange that he hadn't heard anything remotely racist come out of that man's mouth in 20 years
 
LemonMelon said:


In all fairness, Obama claims to have never heard such rhetoric.


I take it you missed his speech this morning?

"Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes."
 
2861U2 said:


Yes, and we all know they've gotten PLENTY of scrutiny and downright hatred and wishes of death directed at them over the past 20 years. I don't think it's too much to ask to examine a controversial pastor from the other side of the aisle, for once, and question Obama's judgment and relationship with him.

There's a double standard going on here. I think I mentioned it in the 2008 presidential race thread. McCain is associated with a minister with anti-Catholic views; Hillary is associated with Billy Graham. I got an email from an Obama supporter who claimed Graham has anti-Semitic views. Why don't they have to disassociate themselves from these ministers?
 
verte76 said:


There's a double standard going on here. I think I mentioned it in the 2008 presidential race thread. McCain is associated with a minister with anti-Catholic views; Hillary is associated with Billy Graham. I got an email from an Obama supporter who claimed Graham has anti-Semitic views. Why don't they have to disassociate themselves from these ministers?

McCain does, and he has. I think for most people, that's the end of the story, as it should be. There is a HUGE difference with Obama, though. McCain doesn't belong to Hagee's church or have a 20 year relationship with him or willingly subject his children to him. With Obama, serious questions about his judgment have arisen.

There's no double standard. Obama needs to be examined. Lord knows McCain and Hillary are.
 
verte76 said:
There's a double standard going on here. I think I mentioned it in the 2008 presidential race thread. McCain is associated with a minister with anti-Catholic views; Hillary is associated with Billy Graham. I got an email from an Obama supporter who claimed Graham has anti-Semitic views. Why don't they have to disassociate themselves from these ministers?


Please tell me which one of those churches
- that McCain is a member?



A few weeks back
Louis Farrakhan gave a big speech for Obama, along with some controversial remarks.

there was some mention of it.

just like there has been some mentioning of the McCain supporters


the difference is a 20+ membership and close association


so please show me the same with McCain?
 
deep said:
just like he is not a member of Louis Farrakhan's organization

I would expect him not to be a member here




i'm sorry, but i call bullshit.

a local church is not the Nation of Islam.
 
2861U2 said:


I take it you missed his speech this morning?

"Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes."

And you must have stopped watching/reading immediately after that.

He claimed about halfway through that he had never heard Wright spout racist rhetoric. "Controversial" is non-specific.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWe7wTVbLUU

13:20-13:25
 
deep said:



Hillary can never know that. Hillary ain't never been called a ******.

Hillary is married to Bill. And Bill have been good to us.
No, he ain't. Bill did us just like he did Monica Lewinsky. He was riding dirty.



This is what the father of two little girls wants then to hear in church?

From the pulpit?

sincerely?



is there anyone in america who didn't know what went on between Bill and Monica?



i'm astonished that, because he attended the church, you seem to be implying that Obama authored these speeches.
 
2861U2 said:


Exactly. The "well, you need to understand the black experience" defense only goes so far. Wright's comments have no place in a house of worship.



really?

didn't people come here for "freedom of religion"? who are you to tell people who they can practice and preach?

hating gay people has no place in a house of worship, but that goes on all the time.
 
2861U2 said:


I take it you missed his speech this morning?

"Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes."



so sitting in a pew is an automatic endorsement of every line of ever sermon the man has delivered over the past 30 years?
 
It is not the size, but the controversy.

Can you imagine a President sitting in a church and hearing those kinds of remarks from the pulpit?

And trying to excuse this off, as this just being how all "black churches" are, is not true.

I have been to a few.
 
2861U2 said:


McCain does, and he has. I think for most people, that's the end of the story, as it should be. There is a HUGE difference with Obama, though. McCain doesn't belong to Hagee's church or have a 20 year relationship with him or willingly subject his children to him. With Obama, serious questions about his judgment have arisen.

There's no double standard. Obama needs to be examined. Lord knows McCain and Hillary are.

McCain has the opposite problem. He distanced himself from these men 8 years ago and is now embracing them, which gives him credibility issues.

Do we know if all of Wright's sermons were like this, or have we just seen the two or three that would make headlines? So questioning his whole 20 year relationship seems a little knee-jerk to me...
 
Irvine511 said:

hating gay people has no place in a house of worship, but that goes on all the time.

I have never and would never vote for a candidate that had an association with a church that "hates" gays.

And when people go anywhere near there, I call them on it.
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:


Do we know if all of Wright's sermons were like this, or have we just seen the two or three that would make headlines? So questioning his whole 20 year relationship seems a little knee-jerk to me...

I guess I just disagree with you then. You seem to think that the only racist, anti-American things he ever said came from the handful of sermons that we've seen on the news. Personally, I think there are a lot more "God damn Americas" in his preaching history that will surface.
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:

Do we know if all of Wright's sermons were like this, or have we just seen the two or three that would make headlines? .


first of all

no one has said,

he said this everyday 24/7 for the last 20 years?


Perhaps we need to go back and read what some of you said about Imus?

Eliot only paid for sex 8 times??

out of how many days? 18, 250 ??

why blow that out of proportion?
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:


McCain has the opposite problem. He distanced himself from these men 8 years ago and is now embracing them, which gives him credibility issues.


McCain isn't "embracing" them. Have you seen Hagee on the news since his announcement of his endorsement? I don't think he's been out there on the campaign trail with McCain nor does he have a role in his team. To me, McCain is still keeping his distance from the Christian conservatives. Ask most hardcore Christian conservatives, and McCain still isn't their favorite person nor will he ever be.
 
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