U2Traveller
Acrobat
Fine, this American leaves. Have fun.
spinninghead77 said:
Thanks. 2700 posts and I have always been too intimidated to post in FYM before. You guys are scary
GibsonGirl said:
This thread is the first I've really replied to here as well, because it caught my attention. Some of the people in FYM are scary!
U2Traveller said:Notice how this thread is devoid of Americans. I guess that makes you all feel very good.
Yes, we will go underneath you, be relegated to a lower latitude from you forevermore.
spinninghead77 said:
Why would that make us feel good? What you don't understand is that we don't dislike Americans and have said nothing bad about the US. All we have tried to do is explain to you that there are positive things about Canada too, since you seem to just want to know the bad.
U2Traveller said:
Oh no, you've tried to do more than that. You've tried to explain how you're superior, lol.
U2Traveller said:
Oh no, you've tried to do more than that. You've tried to explain how you're superior, lol.
Well, like I said, we will FOREVER be a lower latitude from you, so why do you even need to take the time? Unless somehow a massive earthquake chooses to shift things around.
GibsonGirl said:
But, you see, that's not what we're trying to do. America is superior to Canada in certain aspects and Canada is superior to America in other aspects. No one has been saying "Canada is better than America, ha ha ha." We've just been pointing out the many benefits to living in Canada, one of the main ones being the standard of living.
U2Traveller said:
How is what I said arrogance. It was just explaining the way Americans think and why we do what we do and why we will NEVER be like you. I am pointing out our differences...period. If you think it sounds arrogant, well, maybe it's just because you're proud.
It looked like a pretty honest and straightforward view of the world to me.
What's wrong with explaining how America thinks and showing that America is not all that bad, and what you think. Hmmm? I know, because it's more fun to look down on us. I know.
Lisa71 said:
3 years ago I was diagnosed with Cancer and I had no health insurance. I can't even begin to tell you the hell I had to go through. If you don't have health insurance most people in the medical world could care less if you live or die. I've had to deal with that for 3 years and that's NOT my fault. I didn't ask to get sick. If you can't find a job with health insurance what are you suppose to do? Go hungry. I know owe almost $100,000. So, my America isn't that great. I'm not putting this country down because there are a lot worse places. But each American has a different view based on thier experiences. Don't say American's think this way or that. Maybe, YOU think a certain way but not all of us do.
I am not trying to be disresectful I'm just trying to explain how I feel. Thanks
Lisa71 said:The thing is that it's easy to have an opinioin and say "Americans" feel this way etc etc. But ALL American's don't think the same. U2traveller, Utah is beautiful and they have a great quality of life but it's not like that all over America! The south is bad right now. From my point of view, there are a lot of people without jobs and health care.
3 years ago I was diagnosed with Cancer and I had no health insurance. I can't even begin to tell you the hell I had to go through. If you don't have health insurance most people in the medical world could care less if you live or die. I've had to deal with that for 3 years and that's NOT my fault. I didn't ask to get sick. If you can't find a job with health insurance what are you suppose to do? Go hungry. I know owe almost $100,000. So, my America isn't that great. I'm not putting this country down because there are a lot worse places. But each American has a different view based on thier experiences. Don't say American's think this way or that. Maybe, YOU think a certain way but not all of us do.
I am not trying to be disresectful I'm just trying to explain how I feel. Thanks
indra said:
I'm sure someone else has already stated this, but I'm going to as well.
U2Traveller, you DO NOT NOW, NOR WILL YOU EVER SPEAK FOR ME. I'm a US citizen (and btw Mexicans and Canadians also live in North America, so are also Americans...hell, everyone in north and south amreica are Americans) and I do NOT see things the same way you do. So how exactly do you think you know "the way Americans think and why we do what we do and why we will NEVER be like you" when you don't even know how most of the "Americans" (US citizens) on this board think, act, and feel?
You talk of others arrogance, but your "I know best" attitude is the epitome of arrogance. You dismiss out of hand various studys and surveys, but expect everyone just to blindly accept that what you say is the the absolute truth. You attack other's experiences and views, but expect others to accept what you say as fact, just because you state it.
Well, this US citizen isn't buying your line of bullshit lady. I have my own views, and do not need the likes of you thinking you speak for me, because you certainly do NOT!
spinninghead77 said:
Thanks. 2700 posts and I have always been too intimidated to post in FYM before. You guys are scary
U2Traveller said:
Hmm. I think Lisa has more grace than you.
indra said:
I'm sure someone else has already stated this, but I'm going to as well.
U2Traveller, you DO NOT NOW, NOR WILL YOU EVER SPEAK FOR ME. I'm a US citizen (and btw Mexicans and Canadians also live in North America, so are also Americans...hell, everyone in north and south amreica are Americans) and I do NOT see things the same way you do. So how exactly do you think you know "the way Americans think and why we do what we do and why we will NEVER be like you" when you don't even know how most of the "Americans" (US citizens) on this board think, act, and feel?
You talk of others arrogance, but your "I know best" attitude is the epitome of arrogance. You dismiss out of hand various studys and surveys, but expect everyone just to blindly accept that what you say is the the absolute truth. You attack other's experiences and views, but expect others to accept what you say as fact, just because you state it.
Well, this US citizen isn't buying your line of bullshit lady. I have my own views, and do not need the likes of you thinking you speak for me, because you certainly do NOT!
disco2blue said:I believe the way Indra talked to U2traveller is distasteful, condescending, and disrespecful. I am very sickened by Indra's terrible approach.
I lost my temper once, and I apologized sincerely. I think an apology is in order for U2traveller, from Indra. If Indra can't do that - it is definitely no surprise, but still doesn't make it right.
Also, the irony is ridiculous, U2traveller was not speaking on behalf of all Americans, I never got that impression. She was simply an American speaking her mind. But Indra seems to think it speaks a concrete truth? Sounds like you have much self-love that cringingly oozes in your meek points.
disco2blue said:Hello everyone, I just checked this thread today and found an influx of new posts, some intelligent, others just speaking through unbridled passion, as I got in trouble for earlier. Anyway, I will just throw in my view again, and perhaps reiterate and elaborate some points that maybe came off as too general.
First off, U2Traveller, I would like to thank you for taking into consideration and understanding my posts. I believe you are a very intelligent person and we seem to have a similar viewpoint on this big issue of America in relation to the rest of the world. I believe everyone who has posted here is intelligent, it is only our convictions that separate us.
Spinninghead77 responded to my view about Canada not being perfectly safe, as no country is. I mentioned statistical problems for Canada, namely Toronto and Newfoundland. I also mentioned my personal experiences with crime in Toronto. Spinninghead77 said 'I was hanging around in the wrong neighbourhoods'. My friend who was stabbed, he was downtown at a club. Stabbings are common in Toronto, as any major city. I was robbed near my place of residence, in a mixture of middle class and lower class. It happened around 10 p.m., coming home from a friend's house who lived nearby. I was attacked by a group of people, about five, and suffered some scrapes and bruises, no big deal - the worst that happened was my wallet was stolen. I wasn't hanging around a wrong neighbourhood. I was in front of my house - maybe I can't afford to 'live downtown' in a 'perfectly safe' environment, or have the freedom to choose a richer, more luxurious area, but again the attack on me shouldn't be justified because I somehow deserved it by living 'in the wrong neighbourhood'. Dangerous and secure neighbourhoods; that is it exactly, this is what I meant - Toronto isn't above New York, and nor is it below it. It is simply a typical North American city of relative largeness, and that is my point - I never said Toronto is worse than American cities, but that wasn't the gist of it anyway, the bottomline is that Toronto is not that much better either. Toronto used to be, you know that too Spinninghead77, but New York was also previously a deathtrap. You can't live off of a reputation - what is happening now is the relevant part. I wasn't with my friend when he was stabbed, because he was in the notoriously testosterone driven clubbing district, where shootings take place and fights of all sorts - not because they're crazy 'Canadians', but because they are citizens of the competitive, violent North American male species.
I don't feel constantly at threat in Toronto. I don't feel at threat in New York either. Toronto no longer has the right to hold condescending ideas that we are greater than the cities within the United States. Simple as that. In my previous posts, I wasn't being naive and saying, 'you see, I was robbed - all of Canada is terrible'. I was saying, hey, I was robbed, Toronto is only a normal, growing big city. End of story, nothing great and nothing sorrowful. Spinninghead77, you mentioned 'wrong people, wrong areas' - exactly, the same elements of balance that's found in any other city North or South of the border.
Also, to comment on the continuing battle between 'ranked cities', basically how many more countries are 'above' the United Sates, particularly Canada - my view is that these overall, collective studies may or may not be relevant to specific sections of a country. A terrible area in the U.S. may be so terrible in all statistical aspects, that it brings down the average goodness of the whole state. In this case, then, these reports shouldn't be used to judge the most important elements of quality of life - the personal, exlusive experience and area of a certain group of people. Salty Lake city for example, where U2traveller is from doesn't need to read the 'reports' to see if they are living well or not - they are living it every day, and if they are happy and believe it is the best place on eath, then that is more relevant and more powerful than any 'numerical manipulation' of someone's societal abode. We are always trying to mathematically control every facet of life, definite answers by way of science and calculations. However, you cannot measure someone's experience and love for their homeland with definitives. The world, a country, is filled with living subjective beings, and if you want to know about their home and if you want to understand their 'quality' of life, then you go talk to them, you interact, you go there and visit - you don't interpret numbers and then discard someone's experienced outlook because you think the mystery of the world can be summed up with some text and numbers compiling a list. That is my opinion, and that explains why when U2traveller says she believes Utah is the best place on earth, I believe her and I am happy for her. If someone says Toronto is the best place on earth for them, that is just as relevant, and I am glad for them. But when people, as us Canadians are guilty of (And no, not all Canadians, but definitely the majority), say, 'I live here it is the best place on earth - you live in America, what a dumpy place' - that is purely uncalled for and disrespectful. It also shows an arrogance and perhaps insecurity. Why recycle the stereotype and demented glee of proclaiming Canada is 'better', or Canadians are better people than Americans. Supposedly we are a humble, modest country? These perpetuated sentiments explain why we still hold on to the past, when Toronto used to be the best city on earth - when currently we are just a pretty damn good city. I do still like living here very much. However, I can enjoy living here, and be unashamed of being Canadian without putting down my friends and neighbours to the south of me. Unfortunately, we are anti-American for the most part - not all of us, but most of those who are not anti-American sure as hell are not very offended often. Apathy is just as bad as antagonism when you hope to change a dentrimental characteristic.
Canadians are anti-American in blatant ways too. Spinninghead77, I'm sure you recall the Liberal MP, Parrish, a very hateful woman who has said 'Damn Americans, I hate those bastards'. Yes, U2traveller, our Canadian politicians are that open about their hatred of you, your family and friends. And no one here seems deeply offened, and she goes unpunished by the way. She is a major political figure, she is a representative of our current government, and she incessantly makes anti-American comments - and you know what, when she does, her Popularity grows even further. U2traveller, and whoever else that cares about their American heritage, this is commonplace in our government. Furthermore, we have a distasteful Beer commercial, for Canadian beer. It is a 'typical' Canadian man, listing what he does and does not do. He doesn't snap his fingers at the bartender, or rudely speaks to anyone in his Canadian partied-out bar - You know why he is elegant and polite? You guessed, 'I am Canadian (not American)'. The message is essentially delivered to Americans, saying, you are all finger-snapping, rude and callous people. Yes, our inferiority complex and ironic arrogance is everywhere in our media and political spectrum.
I attend University in Toronto. I have been heckled, as I mentioned before, verbally assaulted, because I sometimes speak my mind and defend America from the usual Tutorial class orgy of anti-Americanism, teachers and students alike. This is no isolated sentiment, it's actually a given personality trait of Canadian university students. I occasionally wear a sweater, with an American patch on the side of my sleeve, my girlfriend bought it for me in Tennesses. I have been heckled by students I've never seen before - 'go home, get a new country', 'terrorist', 'redneck', 'fucking asshole,' etc. Not a random act, but fairly consisent throughout the year whenever I decide to wear my sweater - and I do, and I wear it because I will not be intimidated - Ever. It is all very reflective of the Commercials, our political leaders - we do have an amazing solidarity, and the number one pastime in Canada, besides hockey, is bashing Americans inside out. By the way, we're allowed to say damn Americans, we hate them, etc., but if you happen to state something like 'damn Africans', or any other nationality, we can be charged with hate crimes. Certainly an interesting logic we have currently in Canada.
Anyway, these are just my thoughts and experiences, sprinkled with undeniable facts, to explain better where I am coming from and why I go against the generally free-flowing hostile arrogance in Canada. U2traveller, and like I said, whoever else is even remotely proud of their nationality - this is Canada's problem, 'our quality of life', is fine, it's great - but is it proper that we use our healthy life spans to look down upon Americans, and condemn them, and openly hate them? No it is not, and that is why I refuse to give up the fight to change our ways, because I love Canada, and we need to improve our attitude and ethics, regardless of some list that preaches who is living nice and dandy.
I also of course love the United States of America.
Thank you to all who read this post and took into consideration any or all points.
--- Nicholas ---
zoou2@hotmail.com
U2Traveller said:
I am truly and horribly and sickeningly disappointed in Canadians. I am disgusted, too. I will try not to be hateful back, but it is very hard because I am human.
disco2blue said:Careful? So a member has a little history, and you all stick together like some closed minded cult?
Wow, the exclusive membership to be being a condesencing dickhead ony takes some time.
Good to know, thanks for the heads up.
Amazing how internet cliques feel so safe their numbers, some kind of shell of ingorance.
disco2blue said:I believe the way Indra talked to U2traveller is distasteful, condescending, and disrespecful. I am very sickened by Indra's terrible approach.
I lost my temper once, and I apologized sincerely. I think an apology is in order for U2traveller, from Indra. If Indra can't do that - it is definitely no surprise, but still doesn't make it right.
Also, the irony is ridiculous, U2traveller was not speaking on behalf of all Americans, I never got that impression. She was simply an American speaking her mind. But Indra seems to think it speaks a concrete truth? Sounds like you have much self-love that cringingly oozes in your meek points.
--- Nicholas ---
zoou2@hotmail.com
U2Traveller said:I am truly and horribly and sickeningly disappointed in Canadians. I am disgusted, too. I will try not to be hateful back, but it is very hard because I am human.