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Old 11-03-2004, 02:16 PM   #1
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Non-American views of America/Americans

I find it very interesting what non americans say about the election and the people. I missed the election by 24 days as i will be 18 on the 26th. I would have voted for Kerry although its not like a dont like bush. He's done a decent job, and now he needs to clean everything up. But the country is reall y divided. i think everyone at school voted for kerry, and that sasy something about the young vote. Pennsylvania carried kerry anyway. Just wondering what everyone else was thinking.
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Old 11-03-2004, 02:18 PM   #2
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and it must really suck to spend 100's of millions of dollars (fund raisers most likely) and 2 years of your life and end up a loser. But like Kerry said. "No one is a loser cause we will always wake up Americans"
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Old 11-03-2004, 02:23 PM   #3
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I am most definitely a minority of foreigners on this forum who supports Bush. It comes down to the GWOT and unwavering support for Israel, the two issues are entwined. Now I will not argue the point for the next week or so because people are venting, but I have reasons that I think Bush is better for the world in the long term; backing away from the fight would seal America's fate.

Don't agree with me thats perfectly fine, but at least do so with dignity.
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Old 11-03-2004, 02:34 PM   #4
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I have nothing against America as a whole. Some of my best friends are Americans, in fact. I do, however, have something against your president.

Everyone was talking about it today at school. And just about everyone was in utter shock and disappointment that Kerry didn't make it. Myself included, though I must say, I wasn't all that shocked over the results. I knew Bush would win from the word go.
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Old 11-03-2004, 02:36 PM   #5
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I am very disappointed in my fellow Americans. I thought they were better.
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Old 11-03-2004, 04:59 PM   #6
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Let me try to write down my point of view as a german.

When I grew up, i always looked up to america - everybody i knew did. I always respected the United States for what they are - a great country with ideals and big ideas. Hey, it saved us from the Nazis and let our country become a great democrathy!
America always had a good reputation here in Germany, especially when Clinton was President.
Then there was the election in 00 - a total mess and betrayal to the voter, and suddenly the country that always seemed to be the perfect one wasn´t that perfect anymore. But: shit happends, I thought.
There were some people who were worried about Bush, but then again, they said: ok, what´s the matter - maybe he´s not the right man for the job of the most important man in the world, but it´s still America, the trusted country with all those ideals and bis ideas.
That´s four years ago. Only four years, but they changed it all.
At first there was 9/11, and it was one of the saddest days - not only in the US, also in the rest of the world and germany. I was shocked and fighting with tears when i saw what happened. And I was on the side of the US when they marched in in Afghanistan.

But then there was Iraq, which has nothing to do with the war on terror and was already planned before 9/11. The false resons for that war and the lies that were made to start the war.
Now there´s anti-americanism wherever you go. Many germans lost their trust and respect to the US, and all because of Mr. Bush ("Aaaaall becauuuse of yooouuu!" *g*). The country that we all looked up to turned into one that we don´t trust anymore. In only four years!! The enormous lie, that led into the Iraq-war changed it all. Then there was Kyoto, Abu-Graibh and all those things that let us lose our trust. America has lost its respect in the world because of its president. It isolated itself because of the imperialistic, greedy and dishonest politics in Iraq.
Not all germans were against the war. I wasn´t, because I trusted this president. I couldn´t imagine that the president of a great country like yours would betray the whole world. He did.

That´s why about 80 % of the german people would have voted for Kerry, and so would I have. But it was a democratic decision (and I´m glad it was!) and I respect it. And I still respect the amercian people and their country. But I hope Kerry was not right when he said, the re-election of Bush would mean "more of the same". Because I still do believe and hope, that the people here can look up to america the way they did before and respect and trust it. But I´m afraid that this will take another four years and another election.
Nevertheless, I´m not as negative as many others in my country because I know that America is better that its president.
God bless you!
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Old 11-03-2004, 05:02 PM   #7
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Always good to have a true believers out there, even when they disagree with the administration.
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Old 11-03-2004, 05:39 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by FlamingRudy
Hey, it saved us from the Nazis . . .


There were many many other countries involved in removing the Nazis from power...
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Old 11-03-2004, 05:40 PM   #9
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They saved them from the Soviet Union.
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Old 11-03-2004, 05:43 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by FlamingRudy
Let me try to write down my point of view as a german.


Nevertheless, I´m not as negative as many others in my country because I know that America is better then its president.
God bless you!
Amen.
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Old 11-03-2004, 06:01 PM   #11
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One of the major concerns I have is that foreign media portrays what they want to portray of the US. I watch the BBC news frequently and am amazed by the absolute bias they reflect. I can only imagine it is far worse in some other media outlets. There also seem to be many non-Americans who seem to favor Kerry, or dislike Bush, without having all points of view presented to them. I have had the same issue with people from outside of MA tell me what a good leader Kerry is without really knowing in detail what his record is or what he stands for. In fact, many people in MA who voted for him can't tell me exactly why. I think all dissenting views should always be analyzed and tolerated. I just wish more people were informed on the details of every issue. We, as Americans, I think always try to do the best we can in helping others around the globe. You may not always agree with our methods. It is your right as free people. Others around the globe are not as lucky.
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Old 11-03-2004, 06:09 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Boston01
One of the major concerns I have is that foreign media portrays what they want to portray of the US.
That actually works both ways. I find American media astonishingly bad. And I can definitely see bias (both ways) in the media here in Australia and overseas. Just watch and read more from more corners of the globe. Eventually you'll read/hear enough different opinions to get an opinion.
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Old 11-03-2004, 06:22 PM   #13
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The American media has been astonishingly bad throughout this madman's term. It has managed to get its act together somewhat over the last few months but way too late. As a European who hates Bush and everything that he stands for I really fear for our world over the next four years. To those Americans who voted against Bush I hope u know that the rest of the world realises that u are there and that u will be there in the future. Take care.
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Old 11-03-2004, 07:16 PM   #14
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Flaming Rudy: Nice writing!
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Old 11-03-2004, 11:04 PM   #15
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my views of america are probably best not expressed.

i don't hate americans. there's many here that i really like at interference alone, and i know a good deal in real too.

however, the administration and the mentality of a good number of american folk that i've encoutered makes me heave.

perhaps a quick lesson in geography would improve matters, but i'm afraid their government is more interested in spending money on wars they don't need to fight rather than giving it to an education system that doesn't offer any immediate monetary rewards for a company such as halliburton.

look at me, i'm rambling. my apologies, it's late and my words are mudded. perhaps tommorow i'll come back and articulate my feelings better.

however, it is important to stress that i do not hate americans. not even maybe. i love them like i love canadians and anyone else.
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Old 11-04-2004, 04:30 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Boston01
One of the major concerns I have is that foreign media portrays what they want to portray of the US. I watch the BBC news frequently and am amazed by the absolute bias they reflect. I can only imagine it is far worse in some other media outlets. There also seem to be many non-Americans who seem to favor Kerry, or dislike Bush, without having all points of view presented to them. I have had the same issue with people from outside of MA tell me what a good leader Kerry is without really knowing in detail what his record is or what he stands for. In fact, many people in MA who voted for him can't tell me exactly why. I think all dissenting views should always be analyzed and tolerated. I just wish more people were informed on the details of every issue. We, as Americans, I think always try to do the best we can in helping others around the globe. You may not always agree with our methods. It is your right as free people. Others around the globe are not as lucky.
That's interesting because most non American folks, including the ones in here, know and have a better understanding for American politics than the average American. Sad but true.
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Old 11-04-2004, 04:41 AM   #17
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For a look at a more true representation of the U.S. populace, please watch Jerry Springer .

Most Americans know nothing and care less about the outside world, and are of the fervent belief that God (the Christian one, of course) loves them better then He loves anyone else.

And they have voted for a President who agrees with them.

Do i hate americans? Not really...

Do i like those americans who voted for Bush? No, i don't like them.
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Old 11-04-2004, 05:05 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2_Guy
For a look at a more true representation of the U.S. populace, please watch Jerry Springer .

Most Americans know nothing and care less about the outside world, and are of the fervent belief that God (the Christian one, of course) loves them better then He loves anyone else.

And they have voted for a President who agrees with them.
It's very tough to make a blanket statement about Americans, especially in regard to this election.

There is an extremely noticeable divide in this country between the conservatives and liberals...even moderates have strong opinions these days. Per usual, Bush won the vote in virtually every state between the east coast and the west coast (aside from the upper mid-west (Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois).

I hope non-Americans understand that, while by shear numbers, Bush won the vote, the concentration of people who voted for Bush (and whose states gave Bush his electoral votes) lie in these very conservative, Bible-belt areas. The only thing that makes a conservative evangelist from Alabama like a liberal from New York is our rule under a common law. On opinions and ideologies, I'm not sure two people can differ more...

I can tell you for one thing, that in Chicago, there was absolute depression amongst many people I went to work with and saw on the streets. Some actually got physically sick the day after the election.

Now that Bush is president, I sincerely hope he concentrates both on uniting our very divided nation as well as uniting our allies better and not just on winning military battles.
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Old 11-04-2004, 05:33 AM   #19
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Bush says "We have one country, one Constitution and one future that binds us." Leaving aside the issue that this sounds suspiciously like Sauron from Lord of the Rings, I fail to see how a president who has actively been the most divisive in modern times can say this with a straight face.

With a record turnout and, excepting 2000, the closest race in a century, America is now one country but two deeply-divided nations: white religious fanatics and everyone else.

I am impressed that a majority of Americans obviously put morals and religion before their economic interests, but anyone seriously now say that USA 04 is that different from other recent examples of dangerous fundamentalism.

The anti-gay, anti (legal) abortion, racist, gun-loving, and apple pie brigade now have their era, possibly in a way never seen before. Add to that a couple of more nuts on the Supreme Court to upset the already difficult conservative/liberal divide and you have a serious problem.

Maybe Bush deserves a chance, but he said pretty much the same thing in 2000 and we all know what happened then.

9/11 has made him more rabid for sure. We are now, officially, in the era of Bush. As a non-citizen, it does not matter at all to me whether Americans are a majority of religious nuts. But non-citizens are entitled to annoyed when that fanatacism becomes part of mainstream foreign policy by the leading global power. I feel sorry for Palestinians waking up this morning to 4 more years of Bush.
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Old 11-04-2004, 05:37 AM   #20
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reflections from sub-saharan africa

This is a timely topic. Last night as I lay in bed, I found myself reflecting on the reactions of the Africans I live and work with. Since I have been living here in the last year, I have had many conversations with people who have asked me if Americans actually approved of the job Bush was doing. I told them honestly that I didn't know about others, but that I for one was very unhappy with his presidency. They always seemed relieved to find that some Americans have (their words, not mine) common sense and a global view. People told me all the time that they like America, the concept of it, but that they were dumbfounded by the policies of the Bush administration. Everyone assumed that no one would ever vote for him this time around, given his disastrous record, even though I assured them that not only would people vote for him, but he would probably win. People here honestly didn't believe me.

The day before the elections, one of my coworkers told me very insistently that it was crucial that I vote. He said, "you are the only vote, the only voice we have. And this election will affect us all. You have to vote against Bush."

Last night after the outcome was final, I was sitting around chatting with some of the young men in my neighborhood. One of them asked me why I looked down, and I told him that I was depressed with the election results. "Bush won," I said. "What???? It's not possible!" he exclaimed and kept repeating. His other friends started into a long description of the electoral college and the situation in Ohio and the provisional ballots...rather amazing when you consider how far removed these people are from the States. He then quoted the statistics of how many US soldiers had been killed in Iraq that day and how the majority of casualties had been incurred after Bush declared the war "over". I was surprised that they follow the news so closely.

One of my other colleagues asked me incredulously how it was possible that the people of the US could vote for a proven liar who presented himself as someone religious. He ticked off the long list of misrepresentations regarding the WMDs and the war in Iraq. I told him that I was as lost for an answer as he was.

In summary, the impression I get is this. People in the world may have been behind America in the days after 9/11. But the Bush administration has squandered every last dime of that goodwill. And now, this election has confirmed what people did not want to believe, that the American public actually approve of what he is doing and will continue to do to jeapordize the safety and peace of the world. I fear that the US is now well and truly "on it's own" and that not many people will waste their sympathy on us in the future.
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