Nixon - conservative or liberal?

[financeguy]

Richard Nixon...

- Started detente with Red China

- Appointed gays to work for him

- Expressed reservations about unrestrained capitalism in the Reagan era

- Introduced the EPA

- Was in favour of (temporary) welfare for those who fell on hard times

- Ended the Vietnam war

- Was unhappy with Patrick Buchanan's speech to the 1992 Republican Congress

- Met Clinton to give him advice

- Didn't like Bush (sr) much

- Respected JFK

- Thought religion was best kept out of politics



Richard Nixon.....a closet liberal?

 

[BonosSaint]

Here go all my liberal credentials.

What he did with Watergate was creepy. There was something so paranoid about him he could not trust anyone, could not trust the American people, the press. But I think he had the potential to be a great President. I think he had a marvelous long range perspective on things. I think this was a man who had a handle on the future, progression. It was the small things he could not handle. I think he is an impossible man to figure. What was the fatal flaw that brought him deservedly down--beyond the paranoia, the insecurity, and apparently the love of intrigue? He was always a puzzle to me.

 

[financeguy]

According to Nixon himself (not an entirely unbiased source I admit!) Robert Kennedy was the worst for bugging people, etc. It was the culture of the time - that would be Nixon's defense, I guess.

I'm not saying Nixon didn't get what he deserved with Watergate - he probably did - but taking an historical view I would think that the positives of Nixon outweigh the negatives, for me anyway.

 

[BonosSaint]

When all the hullabulloo of Watergate was over, and enough time passed and I read more, my opinion of Robert Kennedy (whom I revered) went down and my opinion of Nixon went up.

 

[DaveC]

Nixon...worse than GWB?

 

[financeguy]

Nixon...worse than GWB?

How do you mean? I think it's too early to judge GWB's presidency, but GWB seems to have had almost everything handed to him on a plate, one of the reasons I respect Nixon is, he had to work for everything he ever got.

 

[Dreadsox]

- Didn't like Bush (sr) much

ummmm.....I would check my research on this statement.

 

[financeguy]

Re: Re: Nixon - conservative or liberal?

ummmm.....I would check my research on this statement.

Do you not think I can back up all those points with quotes from Nixon? I certainly can.

 

[financeguy]

Here's just one quote:-

"It does seem to me that people are looking for real leadership - someone to fill the void that neither Bush, nor Perot, nor Clinton, seems up to filling."

Here is another:-

"His major problem, apart from not showing any ideological backbone, is that he has some real difficulty in communicating with regular people."

(Nixon on Bush Sr)

 

[Dreadsox]

According to Nixon himself (not an entirely unbiased source I admit!) Robert Kennedy was the worst for bugging people, etc. It was the culture of the time - that would be Nixon's defense, I guess.

Bobby used the FBI to illegally wiretap against many...

One blaring use by Bobby and JFK was to wiretap the steel industry leaders.....and threaten them if they didn't keep steel prices down.

Another blaring abuse of power by Bobby was to illegally deport Carlos Marcello, Godfather of New Orleans out of the country...dumping him in Guatemala....Mr. Marcello was flown back into the US by non other than David Ferrie, former Civil Air Patrol trainer of non other than Lee Harvey Oswald.

I digress....The Kennedy's were my hero's during my liberal youth. The amusing thing to me is the Kennedy's were probably more conservative than their legacy indicates.....and Nixon was probably more liberal than his legacy indicates....

 

[Dreadsox]

Here's just one quote:-

"It does seem to me that people are looking for real leadership - someone to fill the void that neither Bush, nor Perot, nor Clinton, seems up to filling."

That doe not mean he did not like Bush. Bush was someone he had TREMENDOUS respect for when he was President. He may not have felt he was the right man for the job, and I think the lack of a second term proves Nixon correct.

I think he enjoyed being the elder statesman....and loved his country very much. I do not hink he looked at his role as a past president as being a partisan position.

 

[financeguy]

The amusing thing to me is the Kennedy's were probably more conservative than their legacy indicates.....and Nixon was probably more liberal than his legacy indicates....

I agree.

 

[Dreadsox]

Re: Re: Re: Nixon - conservative or liberal?

Do you not think I can back up all those points with quotes from Nixon? I certainly can.

I understand you are looking at it from a perspective of would Bush Sr. make a good President.

That does not mean he did not have respect or like the man.

You may want to ease up on the testosterone...

 

[financeguy]

That doe not mean he did not like Bush. Bush was someone he had TREMENDOUS respect for when he was President. He may not have felt he was the right man for the job, and I think the lack of a second term proves Nixon correct

I cannot prove Nixon didn't like Bush sr, but I have read so many negative things that Nixon said about Bush sr that frankly I find it hard to judge whether it was just disagreement on political tactics, or actual personal dislike.

 

[BonosSaint]

How do you mean? I think it's too early to judge GWB's presidency, but GWB seems to have had almost everything handed to him on a plate, one of the reasons I respect Nixon is, he had to work for everything he ever got.

I was just thinking that myself. He didn't seem to have that sense of entitlement so many of our leaders have nowadays. He knew he had to do more than just be. He certainly did persevere. I admired him as an advisor after his Presidency.

 

[DaveC]

"What we are looking at on all our TV sets is a man who finally, after 24 years of frenzied effort, became the President of the United States with a personal salary of $200,000 a year and an unlimited expense account including a fleet of private helicopters, jetliners, armored cars, personal mansions and estates on both coasts and control over a budget beyond the wildest dream of King Midas . . . and all the dumb bastard can show us, after five years of total freedom to do anything he wants with all this power, is a shattered national economy, disastrous defeat in a war we could have ended four years ago on far better terms than he finally came around to, and a hand-picked personal staff put together through five years of screening, whose collective criminal record will blow the minds of high-school American History students for the next 100 years."
- Hunter S. Thompson, Rolling Stone #144 (September 27, 1973)

 

[melon]

Nixon is liberal only when stacked up to the jokers that have succeeded him.

Melon

 

[BonosSaint]

Nixon is liberal only when stacked up to the jokers that have succeeded him.

Melon

Point taken.

 

[Dreadsox]

before I head off to bed....

Prescott Bush.....Bush Sr.'s Father...Recruited Nixon to run for Congress....and went to Eisenhower to get Bush on the ticket as VP.

Nixon supported Bush's 1964 campaign for the Senate.

When Nixon won re-election he ordered that he wanted everyone eliminated except for George Bush saying "Bush would do anything for our cause."

Nixon Appointed Bush Ambassador to the UN 1970

Nixon appointed Bush Chairman of the Republican National Committee...1972

bed calls.

 

[financeguy]

before I head off to bed....

Prescott Bush.....Bush Sr.'s Father...Recruited Nixon to run for Congress....and went to Eisenhower to get Bush on the ticket as VP.

Nixon supported Bush's 1964 campaign for the Senate.

When Nixon won re-election he ordered that he wanted everyone eliminated except for George Bush saying "Bush would do anything for our cause."

Nixon Appointed Bush Ambassador to the UN 1970

Nixon appointed Bush Chairman of the Republican National Committee...1972

bed calls.

That's probably why he didn't like the Bushies

Cos he was initially dependent on them, then felt obligated to appoint him to all these posts, and Bush didn't live up to expectation.

And of course there's the persistent Deep Throat rumours!

George Bush - CIA man in the White House.

 

[phanan]

Nixon is liberal only when stacked up to the jokers that have succeeded him.

Melon

 

[melon]

- Appointed gays to work for him

I should mention that this is generally a meaningless gesture. Nixon had Jews in his cabinet, such as the ever shadowy, Henry Kissinger, but it didn't stop him from being a raving anti-Semite.

And on the other side, our favorite frothy mixture, Sen. Rick Santorum, has a gay chief of staff and communications director, Robert Traynham. Just as there's the stereotype of the "self-hating Jew," there seems to be plenty of self-hating homosexuals more than willing to dig their own grave for power and money by working for the Republican Party.

Melon

 

[financeguy]

Re: Re: Nixon - conservative or liberal?

I should mention that this is generally a meaningless gesture. Nixon had Jews in his cabinet, such as the ever shadowy, Henry Kissinger, but it didn't stop him from being a raving anti-Semite.

And on the other side, our favorite frothy mixture, Sen. Rick Santorum, has a gay chief of staff and communications director, Robert Traynham. Just as there's the stereotype of the "self-hating Jew," there seems to be plenty of self-hating homosexuals more than willing to dig their own grave for power and money by working for the Republican Party.

Melon

To be fair, Nixon knowingly appointed gay people to senior positions, never made a homophobic statement in his life (to my knowledge) and, as I said already, criticised Buchanan for his gay-bashing. Fairness, Melon, fairness!

In Nixon's own words: - "So many people are gay - or go both ways. I don't care. I don't want to hear about it. And I don't want to hear about abortion. That's peoples' own business. Tolerance in this party is far too low..........We've got to reach out to people - and mean it." page 109, 'Nixon off the Record', by Monica Crowley.

 

[melon]

As someone once said to me during Nixon's final years, if he had been that intelligent and thoughtful during his presidency, he might have been remembered as a really good president.

I guess the same goes for Carter too; another man who has had a fairly memorable post-presidential life.

Melon

 

[financeguy]

As someone once said to me during Nixon's final years, if he had been that intelligent and thoughtful during his presidency, he might have been remembered as a really good president.

I guess the same goes for Carter too; another man who has had a fairly memorable post-presidential life.

Melon

Well, in all fairness, what did you expect Nixon to do? Legalise gay marriage while in office? Give up on Vietnam the day he was appointed to office? Give the West over to the Soviets? He was a product of his time. So was Kennedy. They all were. All I'm saying is, Nixon could have been a lot worse. A hell of a lot worse.

I'm still not sure why Nixon is such a bugbear for liberals, truly I don't understand it.

 

[melon]

I'm still not sure why Nixon is such a bugbear for liberals, truly I don't understand it.

He wasn't all that liberal. 1972 might have been the apex of the working class' buying power (having gone completely downhill ever since), but Nixon was the one that started the chain of deregulation that culminated in Reagan's war on the working class--hence eroding the working class' buying power. Nixon was also the one, when approached by OPEC about rising costs, told them to pass them on to the consumer. It's been said that Nixon's actions started the chain that led to the oil crisis of the late 1970s.

What he'll always be remembered for, however, is how he campaigned on pulling out of Vietnam in 1968 and then accelerated the war dramatically, coupled with the mess that was "Watergate." His White House tapes, of course, don't help, but they are an invaluable resource on how presidents likely operate behind the scenes. Notice how no president has taped their conversations since.

All in perspective, I guess.

Melon

 

[Harry Vest]

Nixon was NOT "Liberal" athough compared to guys like Bush Sr., Bush Jr. and in some cases...dare I say...even Bill Clinton he sure comes out looking alot more to the so called "left".

 

[verte76]

Nixon was a moderate conservative with some interesting ideas. I miss moderation in politics, it's not there anymore. If the guy hadn't screwed up with Watergate and Vietnam he'd have a better reputation.