newt gingrich on Iraq

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Irvine511

Irvine511

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[q]"It was an enormous mistake for us to try to occupy that country after June of 2003. We have to pull back, and we have to recognize it," Newt Gingrich.

http://www.time.com/time/quotes/0,26174,1182460,00.html

[/q]



it some ways, this gets to the heart of the situation: many cases can be made about the strategic and moral good of removing Saddam Hussein.

however, what good does a removal do when the occupation has gone as badly as it has?

is Iraq simply un-occupiable, or has this administration been uniquely incompetent?
 
U2democrat said:
A guy in my leadership class is being sent to Iraq on Monday :sad:
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That's a shame that he might have to pay with his life for someone's else's mistakes. This situation is pissing me off big time. :mad: :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored:
 
Irvine511 said:
the BF and i watch her every sunday morning at 10:30.
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:tsk:

Call me uppity, but I could fix you a Southern meal ten times more authentic and vibrant than her Cheez Whiz-'n'-canned-cream-of-mushroom-soup laden heresies. I cried when I saw her fix collard and cream cheese wontons for a "Low Country" buffet party.

She's got camera-ready Southern charm in spades though, I'll grant her that. Maybe I'm just sore because I'm from the wrong side of the mint-tea-sipping tracks. If you find the pageantry of all that stuff entertaining, Being Dead is No Excuse: The Official Southern Ladies' Guide to Hosting the Perfect Funeral is a very funny cookbook and ode to unpretentiously pretentious Southern affectations, told from a thoroughly eccentric Delta country point of view.


lol...this thread has strayed pretty far from Gingrich, hasn't it?
 
and that would mean what?




Newt Gingrich Considers Presidential Run

Sunday , January 09, 2005



WASHINGTON — Newt Gingrich (search) is taking steps toward a potential presidential bid in 2008 with a book criticizing President Bush's policies on Iraq and a tour of early campaign states.

The former House speaker who led Republicans to power a decade ago said he soon will visit Iowa (search) and New Hampshire to promote his book, try to influence public policy and keep his political options alive.

"Anything seems possible," including a White House race, Gingrich told the Associated Press.
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yolland said:

:tsk:

Call me uppity, but I could fix you a Southern meal ten times more authentic and vibrant than her Cheez Whiz-'n'-canned-cream-of-mushroom-soup laden heresies. I cried when I saw her fix collard and cream cheese wontons for a "Low Country" buffet party.
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how dare you insult the southern grandma i never had!

:angry:

and i just told on you to the BF (who's from outside of Memphis so he's all authentic and stuff), and he had this to say:

[q]"your online professor friend IS uppity -- if she is so smart and can cook better than Paula, then why doesn't she have her own TV show"[/q]
 
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on a side note, i'm plotting a trip to Savannah and a dinner at The Lady and Sons for the BF's birthday in October ...

:shh:
 
nbcrusader said:
Sounds like Gingrich might be making another run for office.
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He may. But whatever, I never thought I'd agree with Newt Gingrich on anything, and I basically do agree with this. I've always been pessimistic on Iraq, and I still am.
 
It's just been announced that a car bomb blew up in a Shi'ite neighborhood, killing 13 people. Man, those Wahhabists think all Shi'ites are "dirty infidels".
 
I cant imagine how much longer this is going to go on for, and now that they are openly producing nuclear fuel.. it could get so much worse so fast.
 
Irvine511 said:
how dare you insult the southern grandma i never had!

:angry:

on a side note, i'm plotting a trip to Savannah and a dinner at The Lady and Sons for the BF's birthday in October...
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Oy. I didn't realize I was treading on sacred ground, I thought you just meant you got a kick out of her TV show. Well Savannah is always a good travel choice, it's a beautiful city and very walkable. I highly recommend visiting a couple of the nearby plantations and restored old houses while you're there, as well as going to the beach of course...Hilton Head is beautiful, despite the annoying wealthy-snowbirds vibe. For what it's worth, my friends who live there say if you want to avoid long lines of tourists at Lady & Sons, you should go in the morning, give the hostess your name, then let her recommend a time to come back for quick seating. (The place doesn't take reservations, apparently.) They also recommend Sweet Potatoes, Mrs. Wilkes' Boarding House (warning: "Boarding House" usually means communal seating) and a place run out of a church kitchen, the "United House of Prayer," for the best Southern food in Savannah. Erm, the latter is probably not too gay-friendly though.

Me on television lol, now that would be a disaster. I don't think the Mumbling Jewish Misanthrope Show could compete very effectively for Food Network audiences with the Adorable Southern Grandma Show, plus no one trusts a skinny Southern cook. I'd rather be fixing South Indian food anyhow, truth be told...though I do still love my greens, grits and Q, much to my family's dismay.

I was just being tongue-in-cheek though.
 
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verte76 said:
It's just been announced that a car bomb blew up in a Shi'ite neighborhood, killing 13 people. Man, those Wahhabists think all Shi'ites are "dirty infidels".
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How do you know that it was Wahhabists? why not Salafis or Qutbees
 
Kind of a continuation of the link Justin posted...
Quotes: Former generals criticize Rumsfeld

Associated Press
April 14, 2004

Quotes from the retired generals who are calling for the ouster of Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld:

"We went to war with a flawed plan that didn't account for the hard work to build the peace after we took down the regime. We also served under a secretary of defense who didn't understand leadership, who was abusive, who was arrogant, who didn't build a strong team." - Retired Army Maj. Gen. John Batiste.

"My sincere view is that the commitment of our forces to this fight was done with a casualness and swagger that are the special province of those who have never had to execute these missions - or bury the results." - Retired Marine Lt. Gen. Gregory Newbold.

"They only need the military advice when it satisfies their agenda. I think that's a mistake, and that's why I think he should resign." - Retired Army Maj. Gen. John Riggs.

"We grow up in a culture where accountability, learning to accept responsibility, admitting mistakes and learning from them was critical to us. When we don't see that happening it worries us. Poor military judgment has been used throughout this mission." - Retired Marine Gen. Anthony Zinni, former chief of U.S. Central Command.

"First, his failure to build coalitions with our allies from what he dismissively called 'old Europe' has imposed far greater demands and risks on our soldiers in Iraq than necessary. Second, he alienated his allies in our own military, ignoring the advice of seasoned officers and denying subordinates any chance for input. He has shown himself incompetent strategically, operationally and tactically, and is far more than anyone responsible for what has happened to our important mission in Iraq. ... Mr. Rumsfeld must step down." - Retired Army Maj. Gen. Paul Eaton.

"I really believe that we need a new secretary of defense because Secretary Rumsfeld carries way too much baggage with him... I think we need senior military leaders who understand the principles of war and apply them ruthlessly, and when the time comes, they need to call it like it is." - Retired Army Maj. Gen. Charles Swannack.

"[The Army, Marines and Special Ops] need 100,000 more troops...If you're going to fight a long war, if this war is generational, and if our grandchildren are going to be fighting this war, and if this war continues to be principally ground warfare, then it just seems overwhelmingly obvious that over the long term we are going to need a bigger ground force." - Retired Army Maj. Gen. Robert Scales, former commander of the Army War College
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:huh: The last two quotes are a bit disturbing in ways that have little to do with Rumsfeld, but anyway...
from the New York Times, April 13
Current and former officers said they were unaware of any organized campaign to seek Mr. Rumsfeld's ouster, but they described a blizzard of telephone calls and e-mail messages as retired generals critical of Mr. Rumsfeld weighed the pros and cons of joining in the condemnation.
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So far as I know, of the above only Newbold opposed the invasion outright, saying he considered it "peripheral" to defeating al-Qaeda. So I guess these men, at least, wouldn't generally agree with the idea that Iraq is inherently "un-occupiable."

On the other hand, hindsight is always 20/20, and they can freely admit to that without losing face; Rumsfeld can't. They often cite as a key example (Army Chief of Staff) Shinseki being dismissed for telling Rumsfeld that several hundred thousand, not 100,000, troops would be needed to secure Iraq, but who knows how many of them really agreed with Shinseki at the time. And then there's the everpresent question of whether a focus on "applying the principles of war ruthlessly," to quote Swannack, would really constitute an adequate way to manage all those pesky social and political problems intertwined with the security issues. Not that I think Rumsfeld really has a handle on striking that balance either.
 
A_Wanderer said:
How do you know that it was Wahhabists? why not Salafis or Qutbees
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I'm not positive. But a heck of alot of people who've been busted for this sort of thing have turned out to be Wahhabists from Saudi Arabia, also it's true that Wahhabism teaches that all Shi'ites are infidels and I'm not even sure it's legal to practice Shi'ite Islam in Saudi Arabia, I seem to remember reading where you had to be Sunni Muslim in that country.
 
yolland said:
So far as I know, of the above only Newbold opposed the invasion outright, saying he considered it "peripheral" to defeating al-Qaeda. So I guess these men, at least, wouldn't generally agree with the idea that Iraq is inherently "un-occupiable."
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Im pretty sure that retired General Anthony Zinni also opposed it throughout.

Maybe Iraq is unoccupiable and the mistakes made have certainly cost lives, perhaps dissolving these oil states into a more balkanised set would have advantages in the long term, no one state could ever have enough resources to be a threat and no one ethnic group could dominate over others - Kurdistan could be quite an ally.

As a sideaway the funding of Hamas by the Iranian government shows that the division between Shiite and Sunni, even Arab and Persian is not irreconcilable,
 
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