New political ad by Michael J. Fox

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If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
diamond said:


i knew he wouldn't keep me on his ignore list for long.:sexywink:

poor lad.

dbs



sweet pea, i'd never put your adorable mug on an ignore list. you've got me confused with some other poster.

and i'm totally convinced that you're only, at best, 90% hetero.
 
Justin24 said:
Here is a Rebutal Ad for the Michael J. Fox one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nguJQ_dRPXw

I saw this comment that was posted to this video on youtube;

theprits (47 seconds ago)
There is an easy solution here. Those who oppose stem cell research can just refrain from recieving any treatment that is developed from the research.

They do not have the right to tell me I can't have the treatment.


:up:

Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
Every thought and instinct I have tell me that I should support any and all hope that all stem cell research can offer-we don't even know for sure what that is yet, so how can we dismiss it?
:up:
 
diamond said:




Futhermore if there was proven success in embryonic cells in any of the listed maladies I listed above or the thousands that I'd missed, of course I'd would be all for the ethical research and government funding of embryonic stem cell research.

It's quite simple.

I hope this explains my position to you and people like maycocksean.



dbs

Care to elaborate on the nature of "people like me"?

Your post sort of explains your position. But it still doesn't address why you would be okay with private companies doing the research. Is it one of those things that, like adultery, is definitely wrong but not wrong enough to outlaw it outright?

And what would qualify as "ethical" research for you? What aspects of current stem cell research are unethical in your mind?
80's mentioned "abortion mills"--I could understand the opposition to that, but aren't most stem cells taken from unused IVF embroyos that will be destroyed anyway?
 
maycocksean,

as i stated before, maybe you missed it, i would be against buying dead embyros from abortion mills, and i would think that would be unethical medical practice. i mentioned it twice already, perhaps you missed it, but it's there in my previous posts in this thread.

until private companies (who are better at research in my estimation than public ones, in initial stages) prove success with embyronic cells than i would be all for public funding of this research, as long as it remained ethical.

i sense youre trying to pick a fight and i'm not going to be baited
into that action.

i've been here half a decade and it becomes easy to read ppl in this forum.

that said, let me know if i'm wrong.

good day,

dbs
 
diamond said:

until private companies (who are better at research in my estimation than public ones, in initial stages)

Here is a perfect example of how you are misinformed. Thank you for providing it.

Having worked in this area for years, I can tell you that it is very common for the private sector to dump money to public sector research institutes (independent and university affiliated) to do the initial research. I have worked on such projects on many occasions, and we would do the preliminary studies before the private entities took over but only AFTER we were able to show that there was some promise in some protocol we were doing. There are many reasons for this, some of it has to do with the fact that academic research is far better suited to the initial optimization of experiments, there is more collaboration in academia than in the private sector and more public labs have access to restricted substances and/or viruses (biohazard clearance is tightly regulated and not uncommon to have only a handful - or even just one or two - level IV clearance areas in a country and you can bet your ass they're not at a private corporation!).

I have no idea where your "estimation" comes from, but it's dead wrong.
 
martina,

I believe you hail from Canada, not the USA, correct?

And you're an expert on private research in my country?

didn't think so.

thank you very much.

good evening,

dbs
 
My PI was American. Most of our funding was from American private companies, LOL. Biohazard clearance works almost identically in your country - check with the CDC and NIH if you wish.

Go on being wilfully blind, indignant and ignorant, diamond.

Just don't expect others not to call you on it.
 
meegannie said:


I don't know who any of those people are (with the except of Patricia Heaton who I saw on the Hill when she was speaking about stem cell research a few years ago and I was working on the issue), but what kind of connections do they have to this issue?

Jeff Suppan is a pitcher for the St. Louis Cardinals (baseball)

Kurt Warner is a former quarterback for the St. Louis Rams (football)

and Mike Sweeney is a player for the Kansas City Royals (baseball (kind of))

they are all sports "celebrities" in Missouri, and are all quite religious, so I'm guessing that's why they decided to do the ad to counter the Fox one.
 
diamond said:

i sense youre trying to pick a fight and i'm not going to be baited
into that action.

i've been here half a decade and it becomes easy to read ppl in this forum.

that said, let me know if i'm wrong.

good day,

dbs

Diamond,

I'm not trying to pick a fight and I apologize if I've been perceived to be doing so.

The "people like me" comment was half joking, but really also half serious, especially in light of your stated ability to read people on this forum. I am genuinely curious as to exactly what you perceive me to be like.

I can tell you, and I'm sure you can attest to this, that I usually try to avoid getting into snappy reparte with people here on FYM. I'm not sure why I've wandered into that territory on this particular thread--perhaps because there seems to be a lot of it going around, I don't know. But I certainly mean no offense. It seems like a lot of the digs in your direction from other posters have been much more severe than anything I've had to say. Perhaps that is a privelage reserved people who've been on the forum for many years?
 
diamond said:

as i stated before, maybe you missed it, i would be against buying dead embyros from abortion mills, and i would think that would be unethical medical practice. i mentioned it twice already, perhaps you missed it, but it's there in my previous posts in this thread.

I just went through your posts again on this thread and I assume you mean this:

diamond said:
or any other host of diabilitating diseases or conditions were to be cured by embryonic stem cell research I would be for harvesting embyros who were killed by miscarriage, or thru an accidental death of the embyro.

and this

diamond said:
but even my father always taught us about the sacnity of innocent life, that it was sacred and even he would recoil at the thought of unethical embryonic stem cell research; you see there is a difference; if there is a naturally aborted embyro or and embyro who's mother has died, then i think this would be appropiate situation for research and hopefully cure these blasted deseases.


My apologies, I was quoting you, not 80s when I mentioned the abortion mills.

Let me see if I understand you correctly:

Ethical research is research that does not use aborted embryos, correct? If so, then again I ask, aren't most of the embryos being used coming from embryos that were not used in IVF and are going to be destroyed anyway? Wouldn't that meet your standard of ethics? Or, in fact, are most embryos coming from abortion clinics? Understand, I don't know a whole lot about this subject so these are honests requests for information, not "bait."


diamond said:
until private companies (who are better at research in my estimation than public ones, in initial stages) prove success with embyronic cells than i would be all for public funding of this research, as long as it remained ethical.

And let me ask again, why you would be okay with private companies doing the research. Is it one of those things that, like adultery, is definitely wrong but not wrong enough to outlaw it outright? Assuming of course that they are using embryos from abortion mills.
 
maycocksean said:

aren't most of the embryos being used coming from embryos that were not used in IVF and are going to be destroyed anyway?

In my limited knowledge and understanding, yes. But I guess some people feel that it is tantamount to abortion to "kill" those embryos for the purpose of stem cell research. And I guess some people try to use it as some sort of scare tactic, to somehow imply that we will one day be aborting fetuses in order to harvest stem cells.

My way of looking at it is-if those embryos are not going to be used to create a life, what better purpose could they have than to possibly save other lives and possibly cure disease?

Also Michael J Fox has said that he is opposed to cloning and to egg farming. People are also trying to misrepresent what he supports.
 
MrsSpringsteen said:


My way of looking at it is-if those embryos are not going to be used to create a life, what better purpose could they have than to possibly save other lives and possibly cure disease?


I completely agree. I've been a Christian my entire life and I'm still not sure how that implies stem cell research is immoral...? I don't know the science behind it, but if my sister were dying and they told me they could save her with cells generated from my eggs, I'd donate them in a heartbeat, just like I'd give her a kidney if she had kidney failure.

Morals and religion aside, I'm not sure how I feel about government funding, since I'm not a science person and I don't know how that usually works. If the government has funded research for other diseases, then I don't see why they would step up to the plate here. I do have a problem with the government refusing to fund this because of some pseudo-theological hang-up.
 
anitram said:


Here is a perfect example of how you are misinformed. Thank you for providing it.

Having worked in this area for years, I can tell you that it is very common for the private sector to dump money to public sector research institutes (independent and university affiliated) to do the initial research. I have worked on such projects on many occasions, and we would do the preliminary studies before the private entities took over but only AFTER we were able to show that there was some promise in some protocol we were doing. There are many reasons for this, some of it has to do with the fact that academic research is far better suited to the initial optimization of experiments, there is more collaboration in academia than in the private sector and more public labs have access to restricted substances and/or viruses (biohazard clearance is tightly regulated and not uncommon to have only a handful - or even just one or two - level IV clearance areas in a country and you can bet your ass they're not at a private corporation!).

I have no idea where your "estimation" comes from, but it's dead wrong.



:up:

bingo. i've been too tired to do much in this thread other than make passes at sexy diamond, so i'm so glad you made the very fundamental point that without public funding, there's not much science, whether in the US or Canada or the UK or wherever else.

as for Rush ... well, i suppose he's an expert on when one is or is not on the drugs, isn't he?

dispicable.
 
Chizip said:


Jeff Suppan is a pitcher for the St. Louis Cardinals (baseball)

Kurt Warner is a former quarterback for the St. Louis Rams (football)

and Mike Sweeney is a player for the Kansas City Royals (baseball (kind of))

they are all sports "celebrities" in Missouri, and are all quite religious, so I'm guessing that's why they decided to do the ad to counter the Fox one.


and it was bookended by Jesus! don't forget that.
 
participants-

let it now be understood i'm swamped at work in the midst of writing 3 loans for clients, think not that i'm avoiding this topic nor your questions.

i will address your questions and queries as time permits.

thank you for kind words earlier mrs springsteen re my father.

little irvine one day we will have words, and i hope you can handle them.


and martina we're not finish i'm only busy.

late,

dbs
 
MJF is going to be rallying for Jim Webb in Arlington next Thurs...I am VERY tempted to go, and if I can find someone to go with me I definitely will go.


Irvine you should go too :sexywink:
 
U2democrat said:
MJF is going to be rallying for Jim Webb in Arlington next Thurs...I am VERY tempted to go, and if I can find someone to go with me I definitely will go.


Irvine you should go too :sexywink:


:scream:

i'm filming outside of Pittsburgh.

i would have totally been up for it.
 
Sweet, several people want to go with me next Thursday...Michael J. Fox here we come!!!


We all said he'll probably have us in tears when he's done...it's so painful to watch him. :sigh:
 
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