New mayor for London

[A_Wanderer]

His Wodehousian verbiage says yes

[pgv]

Originally posted by financeguy



Sorry, but this just reads like class war drivel to me.

Of the small number of Oxford educated people I have met, I don't consider any of them 'assholes'. Most, incidentally, were from very ordinary lower middle class backgrounds.

I'm not referring to 'oxford educated' people in general, I'm referring to Nick Griffin and other specific people (..who happen to be very educated and able to get their highly racist party out of tight situations with the law).
Don't label something as 'class war drivel' when you seem to have little understanding of it. The majority of the BNP supporters seem to be misinformed working class people, so this has nothing to do with social status as I would refer to myself as working class too.

[vaz02]

Originally posted by deep








is this an "old school boy" image?

My quote was "old public school boy image ", and when you get a bunch of eton boys together expect the fallout of pretentious arrogance and unsympathetic policies of the deluded middle class. They dont know what real issues are, there idea of real issues are clearing their conscious of global warming and raising the inheritance tax threshold only because it effects their interests.
The man on the street couldn't careless about global warming because the big players on the global scene are dragging their heels which would totally undermine are efforts. The man on the streets wants lower taxes, an efficient NHS, safer streets, value for money, control of immigration and a referendum on the EU.

I have no problem with the middle class as long as they stop pretending to know the working classes problems because they simply dont. The phrase daddys gonna pay for your crashed car springs to mind old boy.

[vaz02]

Some things you might find of some interest about Cameron.

Three members of his shadow cabinet and 15 members of his front bench are old Etonians. David Cameron has more Etonians around him than any leader since Macmillan, represent Britain from such a narrow base ?

David and Samantha Cameron are valaued at £30 mill +.

[financeguy]

Originally posted by vaz02
Some things you might find of some interest about Cameron.

Three members of his shadow cabinet and 15 members of his front bench are old Etonians. David Cameron has more Etonians around him than any leader since Macmillan, represent Britain from such a narrow base ?

David and Samantha Cameron are valaued at £30 mill +.

It's a fair point.

But, mind you, Tony and Cherie Blair are not exactly impoverished, are they?

[financeguy]

Originally posted by vaz02
I have no problem with the middle class as long as they stop pretending to know the working classes problems because they simply dont. The phrase daddys gonna pay for your crashed car springs to mind old boy.

Your second sentence is spot on, if you're referring to Cameron and his elitist friends.

Your first sentence...honestly, what's middle class? What's working class? Thatcher and Major were from the working class....
once again...the class war thing...is it healthy?

[the iron horse]

And a conservative methinks

[vaz02]

This is how i see the definitions of class.

Middle class: I believe those from a middle class background have to an extend financial independence compared to those from the working class. Your average middle class citizen generally lives in the suburbs of the towns and may be a professional such as a doctor, universicty educator or lawyer or another profession of high responsibility. Those in the middle class socialize within their own circle and largely look down on the lower class blue coloured workers. The middle class like to pretend to listen to classical music and understand the works of shakespear. Many parents often feel the need to ship their children of to boarding school or public school to broaden their childs education. The middle class have have deluded aspirations of grandeur which often portrays them as snobby.

Working class: The working class are often the worst effected by increases in tax as they the lowest paid and have the least economic independence out of the three classes. The working class are your john smiths or joe bloggs who keep the country ticking, they drive your buses, police your streets, file your mail, fight your fires, keep the shelves stacked etc etc. Due to the limitations of wealth it is often hard to brake from this social class but not impossible. The working class like TV and think terry Wogan is one hell of a guy, we dont lie about are overuse of porn and we dont pretend to like books, we enjoy reading.

Its not healthy because like in Russia it sparked a revolution but its a fact of life and this social spectrum still dominates life today as much as it did two centuries ago.

[financeguy]

Originally posted by vaz02
This is how i see the definitions of class.

Middle class: I believe those from a middle class background have to an extend financial independence compared to those from the working class. Your average middle class citizen generally lives in the suburbs of the towns and may be a professional such as a doctor, universicty educator or lawyer or another profession of high responsibility. Those in the middle class socialize within their own circle and largely look down on the lower class blue coloured workers. The middle class like to pretend to listen to classical music and understand the works of shakespear. Many parents often feel the need to ship their children of to boarding school or public school to broaden their childs education. The middle class have have deluded aspirations of grandeur which often portrays them as snobby.

Working class: The working class are often the worst effected by increases in tax as they the lowest paid and have the least economic independence out of the three classes. The working class are your john smiths or joe bloggs who keep the country ticking, they drive your buses, police your streets, file your mail, fight your fires, keep the shelves stacked etc etc. Due to the limitations of wealth it is often hard to brake from this social class but not impossible. The working class like TV and think terry Wogan is one hell of a guy, we dont lie about are overuse of porn and we dont pretend to like books, we enjoy reading.

Its not healthy because like in Russia it sparked a revolution but its a fact of life and this social spectrum still dominates life today as much as it did two centuries ago.

Reading your descriptions, I think that I cannot be middle class, as I don't earn enough to send my kids to private school (in fact, I don't even earn enough to have kids. It would involve too many lifestyle sacrifices).

I also think that Terry Wogan is one hell of a guy, so I must be working class.

But to be serious, from my perspective I genuinely think this distinction that you've painted between the middle and working classes is essentially a false, out-dated, even neo-Marxist distinction. In my opinion, the fundamental distinction is between the super-rich and/or ruling class and the rest of us - comprising middle class, working class and every other class that isn't the ruling class and/or super-rich.

I will state that I don't live in Britain (though I've plenty of relatives that do) so your perspective is very probably more accurate than mine.

[financeguy]

Originally posted by partygirlvox


I'm not referring to 'oxford educated' people in general, I'm referring to Nick Griffin and other specific people (..who happen to be very educated and able to get their highly racist party out of tight situations with the law).
Don't label something as 'class war drivel' when you seem to have little understanding of it. The majority of the BNP supporters seem to be misinformed working class people, so this has nothing to do with social status as I would refer to myself as working class too.

Can you explain why you think that working class people who support the BNP are misinformed?

[blueeyedgirl]

Can you explain why a party espousing racist views is a good thing?

[A_Wanderer]

He didn't say that, and I would venture that an explanation for support for the BNP isn't because those people are white supremacists but because they have been fucked over by politicians who ignored their issues in favour of garnering certain ethnic votes.

That would be an explanation, but it does affirm a reason without saying that racism is a good thing and I would suppose that is the type of answer financeguy would use.

[pgv]

Originally posted by financeguy


Can you explain why you think that working class people who support the BNP are misinformed?

Anyone that votes for the BNP is misinformed. I don't see why anyone would try and defend that neo-nazi group that threatens such violence and hatred.


And Vaz, that argument about Cameron's cabinet mostly comprising of Etonians is spot on

[vaz02]

People who vote BNP are disillusioned with British politics and are sick of being lied to and let down, a lot of BNP voters are not particularly racist but see them mainly as a protest vote, a protest against laxed immigration policy, political correctness and mainstream politics pandering to the minorities.

I think it was a bit ignorant to say " misinformed". At least parties like BNP say what they mean and dont heavily depend on sound bytes for the media and spin, now that is misinformed.

Im not a BNP supporter by the way.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Voltaire

[pgv]

Originally posted by vaz02
People who vote BNP are disillusioned with British politics and are sick of being lied to and let down, a lot of BNP voters are not particularly racist but see them mainly as a protest vote, a protest against laxed immigration policy, political correctness and mainstream politics pandering to the minorities.

I think it was a bit ignorant to say " misinformed". At least parties like BNP say what they mean and dont heavily depend on sound bytes for the media and spin, now that is misinformed.

Im not a BNP supporter by the way.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Voltaire

The BNP party is founded on racist prejudice - their core belief is that immigration is the root of all problems, and surely that is racist? If they are encouraging their members to go and 'do someting about it' ?
I must think that BNP voters are misinformed else I loose all faith in the human race whatsoever. I prefer to think of these people are 'misinformed' rather than just plain 'bad' - because in my opinion the views aired on their website are just wrong.

But yes - I still think that these people have the right to say what they think. I just wish they didn't think like that.

[1stepcloser]

Originally posted by partygirlvox


I must think that BNP voters are misinformed else I loose all faith in the human race whatsoever. I prefer to think of these people are 'misinformed' rather than just plain 'bad'

i recently became friends with a guy who votes BNP, but i didn't know he did until i asked him who he voted for due to the recent council elections.

i'd been chatting to him for ages about music and football and stuff and he told me that he'd recently been laid off and had been on the dole. he's a really lovely bloke so i was a bit surprised when i found out he voted BNP. therefore i do think that he is 'misinformed' rather than 'bad'. he probably just sees immmigrants taking jobs as an excuse for his situation. looking for a scapegoat i suppose.

i'm not going to stop being his mate though just because of the political party he aligns himself with, i'm not that self-righteous enough to do that.