New Jersey embraces civil rights for all couples

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Irvine511

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[q]New Jersey Court Backs Rights for Same-Sex Unions

By LAURA MANSNERUS
The State Supreme Court in New Jersey said today that same-sex couples are entitled to “the same rights and benefits enjoyed by opposite-sex couples under the civil marriage statutes.” But the court, in its 4-3 ruling, that whether that status would be called marriage, or something else, “is a matter left to the democratic process.”

The court’s eagerly awaited decision found that an arrangement similar to that of Vermont, which authorizes civil unions between same-sex couples but does not call them marriages, would be consitutional in New Jersey under the equal protection guarantees. The court gave the legislature a six-month deadline to enact the necessary legislation to provide for same-sex unions.

The decision leaves Massachusetts as the only state to authorize same-sex marriages as such. Since the Massachusetts Supreme Court held in 2003 that that full marriage rights were required for all couples under that state’s constitution, gay-rights advocates have suffered a string of defeats in other states. The Court of Appeals of New York rejected a similar argument in July.

Steven Goldstein, the chairman of the gay-rights group Garden State Equality, said the court’s decision was disappointing.

“Those who would view today’s ruling as a victory for same sex couples are dead wrong,” he said. “Half-steps short of marriage — like New Jersey’s domestic-partnership law and also civil union laws — don’t work in the real world.”

Mr. Goldstein promised an immediate campaign to change the state law.

According to the 90-page description of their ruling published by the court today, the justices acknowledged that “times and attitudes have changed.” “ There has been a developing understanding that discrimination against gays and lesbians is no longer acceptable in this state,” they wrote.

But the justices wrote that this case and other federal cases cited by the plaintiffs “fall far short” of establishing a fundamental right to marriage, which is an institution the court termed “deeply rooted in the traditions, history, and conscience of the people of this state."

“Despite the rich diversity of this state, the tolerance and goodness of its people, and the many recent advances made by gays and lesbians toward achieving social acceptance and equality under the law, the Court cannot find that the right to same-sex marriage is a fundamental right under our constitution,” the court wrote.

But the court also said that denying same sex couples “the financial and social benefits and privileges given to their married heterosexual counterparts bears no substantial relationship to a legitimate governmental purpose.”[/q]



i'm fine with this. it basically requries NJ to have civil unions, and then let the people decide what to call them. fine. i'm taking a bit of a "let the baby have his bottle" attitude. if the word "marrige" is so precious to heterosexuals who shit out countless kids in and out of wedlock (and who need the word "marriage" to protect children from the dangers of rampant heterosexuality, as the NY State Court ruled earlier this year) and divorce 50% of the time, then leave that word to them. but it's refreshing to see the court insist that while there might not be a right to Marriage, as culturally understood, there is a right to equal treatment under the law. this seems thoroughly sane and well-reasoned and entirely rational. marriage is not being imposed; civil unions are. and this is in no way "activist." is there a logical option other than to apply the equal opportunity clause to everyone? i pay taxes, therefore i'm entitled to the same civil treatment by the government as Joe Heterosexual 6-Pack. if the majority heterosexual citizens of NJ need to have a vote to impose a label on these unions that will be, by definition, derogatory and impose a colliquial status of "less-than" in comparison to marriage, i suppose that's just one more slap in the face gay people will have to endure. nothing new. and that horrible 1996 DOMA law -- that prevented Gerry Studd's husband from getting any federal death benefits -- keeps this in NJ only.

what's there to complain about?

now, let's see how Rove can spin this to scare the Christofascists out to the polls ...
 
Well, it's still a wimpy decision and still reeks of "separate but equal."

And i don't understand why, for the basis of their decision, they would compare NJ legislation to Vermont's situation and not Massachusetts'.

But if "civil unions" provide exactly the same legal rights as "marriages" and all the existing state and municipal gov't laws are changed to reflect that equality, i suppose that would be good enough...for now.
 
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None of it will be good enough until federal benefits, such as same-sex immigration and Social Security benefits for same-sex widow(er)s, are permitted.

Until then, I think very little of all of this posturing.

Melon
 
after two years of defeats for the most preposterous of reasons, i'm just happy to make at least a little progress, and given the mood of the country where a majority support civil unions but people still freak out about the word "marriage," this looks like a good stepping stone.

:shrug:

baby steps.
 
It's a step in the right direction, but they need to do what they did in Massachusetts and call it marriage with all the benefits of a married couple. I don't see why two people of the same sex can't marry.
 
Irvine511 said:
after two years of defeats for the most preposterous of reasons, i'm just happy to make at least a little progress, and given the mood of the country where a majority support civil unions but people still freak out about the word "marriage," this looks like a good stepping stone.

:shrug:

baby steps.

I mean, you're right. Any step in the right direction IS progress, regardless of the size.

But I couldn't help but yell "UGH! Hurry the fuck UP!" when I was reading this. It's still frustrating...but like you said, it is something.
 
verte76 said:
It's a step in the right direction, but they need to do what they did in Massachusetts and call it marriage with all the benefits of a married couple. I don't see why two people of the same sex can't marry.

:yes:
 
verte76 said:
It's a step in the right direction, but they need to do what they did in Massachusetts and call it marriage with all the benefits of a married couple. I don't see why two people of the same sex can't marry.

:up:
 
Now - if only we can get polygamy and incestual marriage legalized - then nobody who wants to marry will be denied.
 
martha said:

Shut the f**k up about this.

Wow, so much for tolerance :)

Seriously though, why shouldn't we allow ANYONE - regardless of how many many or how related - to marry if they want? I haven't seen a good argument against this. Maybe there was one, but I missed it.
 
AEON said:


Wow, so much for tolerance :)

Seriously though, why shouldn't we allow ANYONE - regardless of how many many or how related - to marry if they want? I haven't seen a good argument against this. Maybe there was one, but I missed it.

Yes you have, a whole thread in fact about your nonsense. You just choose to ignore it, for it makes your stance against gay marriage baseless.
 
AEON said:
Now - if only we can get polygamy and incestual marriage legalized - then nobody who wants to marry will be denied.



what's so hard about 2 unrelated consenting adults?

or are you so desperate to preserve your assumption of the superiority of heterosexuality over homosexuality that you resort to comparing it to crimes?

you know, things that are illegal and that harm people.

homosexuality isn't illegal; homosexuality doesn't harm anyone. in fact, it's homophobia that harms people.

and doesn't the slippery slope work in the opposite direction?

when you start to say, "one man and one woman," what's the next step? "one christian man and one woman of the same faith?" or "one man and one woman of the same race?" or "one man and one woman no more than 10 years age difference?"
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:


Yes you have, a whole thread in fact about your nonsense. You just choose to ignore it, for it makes your stance against gay marriage baseless.

Why is this nonsense? Why shouldn't Man A be able to marry his sister Woman B? Assuming they are both consenting adults.
 
verte76 said:
It's a step in the right direction, but they need to do what they did in Massachusetts and call it marriage with all the benefits of a married couple. I don't see why two people of the same sex can't marry.

:up: absolutely

Right On Martha
 
Irvine511 said:




what's so hard about 2 unrelated consenting adults?

or are you so desperate to preserve your assumption of the superiority of heterosexuality over homosexuality that you resort to comparing it to crimes?


Are you saying that if incest and polygamy were legal, THEN it would be okay to marry?
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:


Incest is illegal right now, isn't it?

:huh:

Like I asked before, if we oveturned the laws against incest - then you would think it's fine for them to marry? Is this correct? And I imagine that you would use the same reasoning in support of polygamy. Correct?
 
AEON said:


Like I asked before, if we oveturned the laws against incest - then you would think it's fine for them to marry? Is this correct? And I imagine that you would use the same reasoning in support of polygamy. Correct?

:huh: I hope you're listening to yourself, because you aren't making a lick of sense...

What does this have to do with gay marriage?
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:


:huh: I hope you're listening to yourself, because you aren't making a lick of sense...

What does this have to do with gay marriage?

Maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way. Why do homosexual couples want to marry?
 
AEON said:


Maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way. Why do homosexual couples want to marry?

Why do straight couples who aren't brother and sister and don't want to have kids get married?

Just face it, there's a reason you are against it and none of it has to do with logic.
 
AEON said:


Are you saying that if incest and polygamy were legal, THEN it would be okay to marry?



this twists the issue.

there are reaons why incest and polygamy are illegal. if you can convince society that it is a crime for these two things to be illegal, and then you can convince a legislature to decriminalize incest and polygamy, THEN we can talk about mentioning these two activities in the same breath as a contemporary homosexual relationship.

gay people have stood up and asserted their humanity and the legitimacy of their relationships over the past 30 years. laws and much of society has recognized them. if incest participants and polygamists wish to do the same, they are more than welcome. but they have yet to do so, and something tells me that it's a far, far harder argument to make. let's not forget, laws do change. in the 1960s, in the South, you could be married at 13. chances are, Mary gave birth to Jesus when she was about 13. do you want your 13 year old to be able to get married? or has understandings of marriage evolved with the milennia?

and, again, i'll politely overlook the comparison your making between myself and my boyfriend and between a drunk uncle and his 14 year old neice.

AEON -- do you really think that your relationship with your wife is somehow better by definition than my relationship with my boyfriend, even if the two of us were to get married (or whatever's available) in the not-so-distant future?
 
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