New global warming plan - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-17-2002, 07:46 PM   #21
I'm a chauvinist leprechaun
 
Lemonite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Notre Dame, IN, 46556
Posts: 1,072
Local Time: 08:20 PM
The recession is officially over, our last period showed an increase in economic growth.. Consider yourself informed...

Bush did not start this recession, nor has he influenced its continuation.. That was the terrorists.

Even with the tax cuts included in the budget, there is a Projected SURPLUS in the 10 year forcast.. which should manifest itself in a couple of years.. I've posted this before, but apparently you chose not to listen to it.

And with the 18% reduction, linked with the output of the economy.. yes, those who don't pay attention may not realize exactly what it is saying, I however, do, and what he is proposing is still a reduction over what would be out there in the atmosphere.. As we've all seen.. the best way to cut emissions is for a country to go into an economic shithole, just like Russia...

L.Unplugged


__________________

Lemonite is offline  
Old 02-17-2002, 07:51 PM   #22
ONE
love, blood, life
 
FizzingWhizzbees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: the choirgirl hotel
Posts: 12,614
Local Time: 08:20 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Lemonite:
the best way to cut emissions is for a country to go into an economic shithole, just like Russia...

Actually the best way for a country to cut harmful emissions is for its businesses and government to invest in energy-saving technologies or alternative forms of energy.
__________________

FizzingWhizzbees is offline  
Old 02-17-2002, 08:08 PM   #23
I'm a chauvinist leprechaun
 
Lemonite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Notre Dame, IN, 46556
Posts: 1,072
Local Time: 08:20 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees:
Actually the best way for a country to cut harmful emissions is for its businesses and government to invest in energy-saving technologies or alternative forms of energy.
Allow me to rephrase with best.. 'Easiest'

And to you point.. you might add...

Actually.. they must be economically efficient as well.

L.Unplugged
Lemonite is offline  
Old 02-17-2002, 09:41 PM   #24
War Child
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Clare, Ireland
Posts: 647
Local Time: 08:20 PM
You can talk all night and day about the economics, but the basic fact is that the world is going to shit, look outside your window, god, the off-licence near my uni house has a lake behind it nowadays, it could be flooded soon!!! This is beer we are talkin about you foools!!! Stop the madness now before it is too late!!!
But seriously, there is a lake there, there is flooding all over the place and fucked up weather conditions, fuck the economics, ya'll ain't gonna be worried bout the economics when you got no world to enjoy your life on. It is that simple, and the Kyoto agreement was damn feasible, a bit less greed and we'd be looking at a bit of hope. There's a solution to almost everything, and jaysus, if it gets that bad, I know I would gladly do what I had to.

And haha....ha at the Russia shit, at least they don't have feckin hurricanes and floods to deal with(yeah I know they got fucked up weather too, always have)

And Lemonite......
Someone should re-plug you
lazyboy is offline  
Old 02-17-2002, 10:11 PM   #25
Refugee
 
Danospano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,415
Local Time: 03:20 PM
Why is George W. Bush still serving as President. Every time I read ANYTHING about his policies I start to cry. I'm being sarcastic, but still...come on?!

Another thing that pisses me off is that nobody is actually contesting Bush's policies. Sure, there are a few meagerly populated activist organizations, but why aren't more people speaking out and putting pressure on the President?

I ask this question, but I know the answer. I know that people are afraid that criticizing the President or anyone in his cabinet will ultimately label themselves as "un-American". What's funny, is that those people calling everyone "un-patriotic" are essentially wanting everyone in our country to bow before Bush as if he were a god that could do no wrong.

This is scary! Not only are we "watching" our own environment wither away...or should I say, be drilled away, but we are also afraid to take "a stand", whether it be in favor or not. I'm completely with Bono on this issue. Indifference is the feeling we must rebel against.

In the end, the Earth's environment will still be here. Up until the very last second before the Earth is engulfed by the sun, our eco-system, not matter how alter it may appear, will still be here. Humans, on the other hand will be dead, with nothing left but their bones.

Mother Nature doesn't need our protection. Our future generations need our protection.

Ciao, Dano
Danospano is offline  
Old 02-17-2002, 11:02 PM   #26
I'm a chauvinist leprechaun
 
Lemonite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Notre Dame, IN, 46556
Posts: 1,072
Local Time: 08:20 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by lazyboy:
And haha....ha at the Russia shit, at least they don't have feckin hurricanes and floods to deal with(yeah I know they got fucked up weather too, always have)

The Kyoto treaty was going to f#ck our country economically.. Everyone agrees on that, and it was not a feasible option in our eyes. Maybe for ya'll, as I've seen eggs still sitting out of refridgeration.. which no doubtedly shot off CFC's in a photysynthetical manner.. on a shelf in grocery stores in Ballybunion.. CUz ya'll don't have any emissions to even worry about.. (A short and drastic statement, but due to studying, all that is needed).. Anyways.. When we pulled out of it.. NO COUNTRY HAD RATIFIED THE KYOTO TREATY... Explain that?

The world is not going to shit, It's a great place to live, I'm thankful for every day here, and even for Interference.. Hahaha.. just a hobby, but still a place where we can talk and discuss.. something many people would do anything to have this opportunity.

Also, I'll be the first to say that George W. is not some god immune to criticism.. There's a big big issue that is practically a nonissue to everyone in this country.. Campaign Finance REform.. something that is not needed, and the proposals are violations of our first ammendment constitutional right.. Now.. if this bill somehow passes to Bush's desk, and he does NOT veto it.. i'll be the first to call out this travesty.

L.Unplugged

[This message has been edited by Lemonite (edited 02-17-2002).]
Lemonite is offline  
Old 02-17-2002, 11:07 PM   #27
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,782
Local Time: 03:20 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Lemonite:
Maybe for ya'll, as I've seen eggs still sitting out of refridgeration.. which no doubtedly shot off CFC's in a photysynthetical manner..
Roll call...



Melon

------------------
"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
melon is offline  
Old 02-17-2002, 11:35 PM   #28
I'm a chauvinist leprechaun
 
Lemonite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Notre Dame, IN, 46556
Posts: 1,072
Local Time: 08:20 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon:
Roll call...



Melon

Melon, It saddens to see you resorting to such childish antics, even further below anything I have ever dropped.

This has become nothing more than one of those famous pissing contests you are Well known for.. However correct or Off You may be.

Anthony.. Here is your role model.

Moderators.. Even I, the epitome of a proud American.. who for effect will rant and randomize here, am embarrassed to be a part of this thread.. I think it has had its day.

L.Unplugged

Melon, we continue to pray for you.

[This message has been edited by Lemonite (edited 02-17-2002).]
Lemonite is offline  
Old 02-17-2002, 11:41 PM   #29
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,782
Local Time: 03:20 PM
Hmm...deja vu...

6) if your opponent consistently overturns your "correct" stories (anything told by Rush Limbaugh), use ad hominem attacks.

Pardon my embitterness, but your posts are often so hysterically incomprehensible, I cannot help but give stupid responses to them.

Yes, this thread has had its day.

Melon

------------------
"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
melon is offline  
Old 02-18-2002, 01:13 AM   #30
War Child
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 940
Local Time: 08:20 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem:
And also, the Aus PM has his head wedged firmly up the American Prez's arse. Bush could say Im gonna make farting illegal and lil Johnny would reply "Fantastic idea, can I just give your arse a little kiss while Im here?"
Don't bash my country! You're obviously not very smart! You're a terrorist! You don't know what you are talking about! We are the best greatest country in the world! We should make farting illegal! Johnny's right! Johnny's always right! Australia is always right! If you don't like it move to Communist China! Fart all you want there! Australia is the greatest! Greatest country in the whole world! Don't shit on Johnny!
TylerDurden is offline  
Old 02-18-2002, 01:41 AM   #31
you are what you is
 
Salome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 22,044
Local Time: 09:20 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Lemonite:
The Kyoto treaty was going to f#ck our country economically..
how is that?

------------------
Salome
Shake it, shake it, shake it
Salome is offline  
Old 02-18-2002, 02:18 AM   #32
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Popmartijn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 32,815
Local Time: 09:20 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Lemonite:
The Kyoto treaty was going to f#ck our country economically.
As Salome said in the post above, how? I have to say that I don't know the US projections, but it is estimated for the EU that complying to the Kyoto treaty will cost less than 1% of GNP. It may be that the US is already a relatively heavy polluting and oil improductive country, so it may cost a little bit more for them to get to an as advanced level technologically (regarding environment protection) as the EU, but still. I don't expect the cost for the USA to be above 2% of GNP (and I assume it is going to be closer to 1%).

Quote:
Everyone agrees on that, and it was not a feasible option in our eyes.
That are a mighty many people. I think you should read my argument above.

Quote:

Anyways.. When we pulled out of it.. NO COUNTRY HAD RATIFIED THE KYOTO TREATY... Explain that?


When the US pulled out, the Kyoto treaty was not completed yet. The US didn't pull out when the whole treaty was complete. After the Kyoto round there was another round of negotiations (forgot where it was, The Hague?) and the US didn't even bother to show up there. Instead, they started criticising it, pulling away from being part of the solution.

Marty

P.S. It is one of the most childish cop-outs when you say you're not going to do good just because somebody else also isn't doing this. Based on this cop-out we should start polluting right away. We can also dismantle that International Court Of Justice and let's take the first step by releasing Milosovic immediately! When one country doesn't want to comply, why even do it?

------------------
People criticize me but I know it's not the end
I try to kick the truth, not just to make friends

Spearhead - People In Tha Middle
Popmartijn is online now  
Old 02-18-2002, 05:31 AM   #33
Refugee
 
Klodomir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Denmark
Posts: 1,198
Local Time: 09:20 PM
Well, you'll soon be rid of Popmartijn, Salome, DrTeeth and me... we'll be the first to go when Greenland melts. Living below sea level sucks.
Klodomir is offline  
Old 02-18-2002, 06:31 AM   #34
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Popmartijn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 32,815
Local Time: 09:20 PM
Well, Greenland isn't the region I'm so much afraid of. Although it is on the other side of the earth, I'm more afraid of Antartica. There's a whole lot more of ice over there.

However, IIRC, when the sea level rises enough to swallow the lowlands, New York will also be under water. So it's just a question if Bush wants to sacrifice New York for his economic-environment policy.

Marty


------------------
People criticize me but I know it's not the end
I try to kick the truth, not just to make friends

Spearhead - People In Tha Middle
Popmartijn is online now  
Old 02-18-2002, 08:26 AM   #35
ONE
love, blood, life
 
FizzingWhizzbees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: the choirgirl hotel
Posts: 12,614
Local Time: 08:20 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Popmartijn:

However, IIRC, when the sea level rises enough to swallow the lowlands, New York will also be under water. So it's just a question if Bush wants to sacrifice New York for his economic-environment policy.
I agree with you, but I'd say that the immediate problem is the impact global warming is having right now on countries such as Bangladesh and other countries which have been badly affected by flooding on a regular basis in recent years.

What industrialised countries do has a disproportionate impact on other countries and that's why I believe they have a responsibility to act now to reverse, or at least limit that impact.
FizzingWhizzbees is offline  
Old 02-18-2002, 09:01 AM   #36
War Child
 
zoomerang II's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: melbourne, terra australis
Posts: 657
Local Time: 07:20 AM
The following points are my ramblings on the issue:

1. The globe is increasing in temperature due to human activity, evidenced over the last 50 years, and potentially since the onset of the industrial revolution. Indeed there is enough evidence that by rights, we should be in a period of global cooling if it wasn’t for human intervention.

2. We do not know what the environmental consequences of all of this will be. Whilst it is likely to result in increased sea levels, on a regional scale we just don’t know. There is a body of evidence to suggest that global sea currents could be dramatically altered and some areas dramatically rise in local temperatures while other areas cool dramatically, but it is in generally speculation. However, when you hear on the tv that the local storm that took your roof off was from the greenhouse, that is likely to be rubbish. Unfortunately we wont know the real consequences until they have already occurred, and most of the consequences will be for future generations.

3. There is no evidence to suggest that increased environmental conditions impose a long-term economic burden on society. Society already has done an enormous amount. We phased out lead in petrol. We are now removing MTBE from petrol.
We have banned a host of pesticides, herbicides and fungicides. We have banned freon and other CFCs. We have imposed stricter waste regulations and encouraged recycling. There are restrictions on the use of thousands of chemicals. We have developed occupational and environmental health based exposure limits on the use of almost every single substance we come into contact with.
Did people kick up a fuss at the time? Of course some industry did.
Who implemented all these things? Most of the leadership has come from the US – via the EPA and state based regulators which has then been adopted by other countries. All of these things were said to come at a cost to industry - but they don’t, because industry can adapt readily and change. In fact, all of these things come at a net benefit to society. People live longer and are healthier, and think of all the peripheral industries - waste companies, consultants (like me) redevelopment and urban renewal etc – in fact Kyoto could actually mean MORE jobs (long term).

4. What the Kyoto debate is about is basically a sibling fight between Europe and America to say that “he gets more than I do, and I want to be able to swap my marbles for his”. Bush acknowledges that something must be done by the mere fact that he has come up with something alternative. Most of the western world believes that the time has come to encourage only sustainable development and energy use. Is it right that an African child worrying about what they are going to eat the next day has to suffer? No, of course not, so western countries, and in particular America, must take the initiative and not use them as a poor excuse.

5. The only reason the original Kyoto agreement wasn’t signed by America was not because it would cost Americans jobs - in fact, it would probably generate a large amount of employment in the implementation - but because of vested interests. Lets be honest, even Shell and BP Amoco recognise the greenhouse effect and are spending billions on new renewable energies, but some American companies have a vested financial interest in the status quo. Americans are leaders at the development and implementation of new technologies that will enhance and modernise economies – the only thorn in this side is from weak leadership controlled by vested interests instead of visionary leadership controlled by pragmatists.

[This message has been edited by zoomerang II (edited 02-18-2002).]
__________________

zoomerang II is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com
×