New Education System

Zooman91 · 03-04-2002, 05:59 PM

I heard that kids in Germany only go from school from 8:00 to 1:30. This got me thinking. At my high school, we're there from 7:35 to 2:30. We're there 1 hr 25 min longer (I think) and our system seems to be behind there (at least up to college). I propose that a 80% should be passing from 1-12. A B- Not only that, but we need less emphasis on attendance. In other countries, life France and Japan, the kids want to learn and wouldn't miss a day of school if their life depended on it. They realize that if they mees up in school, they're in for a shit life. We need the same thing - if kids really don't want to come to class, then fine, it's their future. We can't have these truant officers, but some badass cops roaming the streets. Anybody got some suggestions for my super (or not so super) system?

Lilly · 03-04-2002, 06:35 PM

BAH! Attendance shmattendance. I have skipped school plenty of times (and have gone great places, like the world's largest ball of twine!) and it hasn't hurt me yet. I understand that school is important, but there are days I just don't want to be there. I do my homework and get the credit and everything is fine. If I miss a day, it won't hurt. I think that we need to learn more in school. I don't believe that Americans as a whole are an educated people by any means and it is quite upsetting. I realize kids need to go to school to learn, but frankly I'm not missing anything when I'm gone. I'm in 2 AP classes and am preparing myself for 2 AP exams on my own. These are my only reasons for going to school right now. I am a second semester senior, I get good grades, I am a competant "articulate and intelligent" individual that after next Tuesday will have all of the credits she needs to graduate.

Minnesota kids also attend school from 7:35 to 2:25, but I don't think that time frame has anything to do with anything (other than it being REALLY early in the morning). Education needs to be started in the home at an early age, by the time kids are in high school age their educational future is pretty much in their hands. If they don't have a strong background supporting education backing them up, then it will be more of a struggle for them to become educated. It all depends on what happens at home, that's the key. And besides, the government is already WAY too far into the school system, no more regulations!

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*Proud owner, maker, and baker of THE U2 cookies*

Vorsprung · 03-04-2002, 07:09 PM

As for france students. As far as I know they don't really like going to school either. Japanese? Well, their system really stinks. It's not that Japanese kids really like school that much, they know they'll have to go there to succeed. Nothing wrong with that you might think. Maybe, but the pressure of performing well at school there is enormous. Not performing simply means becoming an outcast and many many japanese students can't handle the pressure at school. Mainly because of this Japan also has by far the highest amount of suicides amongst teenagers, so I don't think that's what you may call a super educational system. As for me, in The Netherlands. I attended high school from 8.30 till 14.05 or 14.55 most of the time. Maybe that's less than in the US. I also know that high school students over here have fewer days off than American students (about 20 days per year if I'm right). The biggest difference between the american and european school systems is, as far as I know, the fact that after primary school, students go to different schools with different levels of education that fit their level of intellectual performance.

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Vorsprung durch Technik

Zooman91 · 03-04-2002, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vorsprung:
Japanese? Well, their system really stinks. It's not that Japanese kids really like school that much, they know they'll have to go there to succeed. Nothing wrong with that you might think. Maybe, but the pressure of performing well at school there is enormous. Not performing simply means becoming an outcast and many many japanese students can't handle the pressure at school.

Well, I do well at school and I'm an outcast, so that's one more point for my system.

Lilly · 03-04-2002, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zooman91:
Well, I do well at school and I'm an outcast, so that's one more point for my system.

Being an outcast is all in how you see it. Who gives a shit if the popular kids don't like you? It's their loss. People in high school don't understand that high school is the most bull shit thing ever. That high school only comprises about 5% of your entire life. That is insanely small for how much people care.

As for the way the European system works, well, I'm jealous. It would be nice to formally break up into classes based on intelligence. However, there are some key issues with that. Grades (A's, B's, C's, etc) don't mean anything here. So, if we were to place kids in these classes based on their letter grades, that be useless. Standardized testing always creates problems, apparently girls are bad at them as well as minorities (excuse me while I

). I guess in Minnesota we sort of do it in the only way we can. We offer "general", "advanced", and "advanced placement" courses. Where "general" is for everybody, "advanced" is for kids who are not in their last 2 years of school, but are smarter than average, and "advanced placement" (or AP) are college courses offered at the high school. I think that those are pretty much the only fair and legal (I don't think that's the word I want, but for lack of a better one I'm keeping it) way to separate kids.

On the other hand, studies are increasingly showing that separating kids based in intelligence is bad for their self-esteem. Which completely complicates everything now doesn't it?

------------------
*Proud owner, maker, and baker of THE U2 cookies*

Lemonite · 03-04-2002, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lilly:
Being an outcast is all in how you see it. Who gives a shit if the popular kids don't like you? It's their loss. People in high school don't understand that high school is the most bull shit thing ever. That high school only comprises about 5% of your entire life. That is insanely small for how much people care.

Ah Yes.. It never ceases to amaze me the huuuge amount of people who are both here in college with me, or grown up and thirty five years old.. Leaving any and all that will sit and listen, with the impression that High School is/was/ and will continue to be The Best years of their life.. "Oh Let me tell you about the summer of My Junior Year.", "OMG.. Our Tenth Grade Drama Play performed Grease...".. Allow Me to Shit myself as I join in with your enthusiasm..

Yes.. High School is such a small part of your life, but seriously, Enjoy it for the Easiness of it all.. Compared to College.. Ya'll do nothing in High School... Hence my extreme laziness and avoidance of practically anything that puts a bitter taste in my mouth here in College cuz I've got the good ol 8-5 days of Dental School on the Horizon.. Yee Haw Jackasses.

L.Unplugged

Zooman91 · 03-05-2002, 09:13 PM

I don't really give a shit about the popular kids either, and I think I phrased it wrong. I'm not an outcast, just an oddball.

Besides, this isn't about me, it's about the stupid people of America. If they don't straighten up and fly right, we're gonna be screwed one day. They just need some more pressure on them. (People who can't take it are just wussies.)

[This message has been edited by Zooman91 (edited 03-05-2002).]

Lilly · 03-07-2002, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zooman91:

Besides, this isn't about me, it's about the stupid people of America. If they don't straighten up and fly right, we're gonna be screwed one day. They just need some more pressure on them. (People who can't take it are just wussies.)

wtf? By numbers alone we can't all be the brightest bulb in the box. Not too many years ago individual states (since education is not a federal thing all the time

) went about supporting things like "social passing" where, even if the kid obviously failed out of a grade, they would be moved up to protect his pride. Well, newsflash, his pride won't be too high when he graduates high school and is an idiot. A lot of education reforms need to happen. In our case, the finances are so messed up. School districts are SO poor (my district owed $6 million at one time), and people are so sick of voting for levees. Ventura isn't shifting one extra dime into education until schools figure out what the hell they're doing (which I agree with the concept, but it will create a tumultuous few years here). So sorry if you are realizing what idiots some Americans are, but there is no easy answer.

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Proud owner, maker and baker of THE U2 cookies.

melon · 03-07-2002, 05:39 PM

In defense of America, we educate everyone. As such, our test scores cannot be compared too easily to Europe or Japan or other parts of the world, who, at early ages, separate the "smart ones" from the "dumb ones" with different level of education as Vorsprung mentioned. I have a feeling our test scores are being compared against the "smart ones," while everyone's scores, smart or dumb, gets lumped together in America.

That is not to say that our system doesn't need reform, but that it isn't as bad as you'd think.

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time

Zooman91 · 03-07-2002, 09:09 PM

Okay, so my system has... several flaws. I guess it'll be some time before any system we have can go through a total reform.

But I must say, I think the reason it sucked is because it started as a joke I made up at school about a month back.

Lilly · 03-09-2002, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zooman91:

But I must say, I think the reason it sucked is because it started as a joke I made up at school about a month back.

Ahhhh yesss....joke schools! Generally made up in a fit of boredom at "real" school. I have several....

------------------
Proud owner, maker and baker of THE U2 cookies.

Zooman91 · 03-09-2002, 12:49 PM

You know it Lilly.

dream wanderer · 03-09-2002, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by melon:
In defense of America, we educate everyone. As such, our test scores cannot be compared too easily to Europe or Japan or other parts of the world, who, at early ages, separate the "smart ones" from the "dumb ones" with different level of education as Vorsprung mentioned. I have a feeling our test scores are being compared against the "smart ones," while everyone's scores, smart or dumb, gets lumped together in America.

That is not to say that our system doesn't need reform, but that it isn't as bad as you'd think.

Melon

I believe Melon is right...I have read articles to this effect. We are comparing the scores of the general American student population to the elite of Europe and Japan. If we compared our 'elite' to their 'elite' we might be pleasantly surprised at how well we compare...

But there is always room for improvements...

dream wanderer

Zooman91 · 03-09-2002, 11:23 PM

Maybe you're right dream wanderer. Maybe the education system neglects to average in MY test scores... we might be pleasantly surprised by how we compared, eh?

]{arao]{e · 03-10-2002, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zooman91:
Maybe you're right dream wanderer. Maybe the education system neglects to average in MY test scores... we might be pleasantly surprised by how we compared, eh?

That's the whole downfall of the current education system...comparisons. It's all very scientific now...we do have to compare how some methods are better than others...but have we come to a STANDARD. Never will that happen. People are constantly in COMPETITION for recognition so THEY can be in control of the system and then set a STANDARD for everyone else. COME ON PEOPLE! This is not survival of the fittest when it comes ot the education of our children. I believe the system FAILS when people stop loving to teach all kinds of kids...outkasts and inkasts. There is definitely a hotbed of cast systems within public schools in the U.S. The blacks are still segregating themselves in HS and everywhere else, eventhough Brown vs. Board of Education of Topeka was passed 48 years ago. When MLK said to judge people by the content of their character he did NOT mean by how well they knew the Bible or Arithmetic. He meant if they could be trusted and be leaders and have integrity.

Getting up everyday at the same time and being where you're supposed to be is tantamount to building integrity.
Whether or not it's at 9 or 8 or 7 'o clock doesn't make a difference. Japan, France and Spain and many other countrys churn out people who can hold down a job in a steel mill so we can drive our cars to work at 6AM every morning.

[This message has been edited by ]{arao]{e (edited 03-10-2002).]

Zooman91 · 03-11-2002, 10:36 PM

Well, I don't think I was promoting social Darwinism. I just think that people need to start living up to the standards set, which only part of the population lives up to. All we need is a few bars to be raised and put the pressure on them............ unless that is social Darwinism, then you're right.

Lilly · 03-12-2002, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zooman91:
............ unless that is social Darwinism, then you're right.

Miss MacPhisto · 03-12-2002, 07:20 PM

You dont learn shit in US schools. Especially not the ones in this state.
Its a waste of time, really. You learn how to hate and how to fear, and that is basically it.
Many of the most important things to know in life, and to know about people, the country, its problesms, and how to solve them/what needs to be done here...cannot be learned in most schools. They will not teach you, and you will not learn.
To really gain knowledge, you MUST go out in the world, OBSERVE people and the world around you, talk to others, listen, and think.
A formal education CAN be a wonderful thing if youre fortunate enough to be able to get it, but LIVING is even more important.

------------------
Look...look what you've done to me...You've made me poor and infamous, and I thank you...

My name is MISS MACPHISTO...I'm tired and i want to go HOME...

"Well you tell...Bonovista,that i said hello and that my codename is Belleview" - Bono before opening night of Anaheim Elevation concert

Well tonight thank God it's them, instead of you...

[This message has been edited by Miss MacPhisto (edited 03-12-2002).]

03-04-2002, 05:59 PM	#1
Zooman91 The Fly Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Carol Stream, IL Posts: 156 Local Time: 06:17 AM	New Education System I heard that kids in Germany only go from school from 8:00 to 1:30. This got me thinking. At my high school, we're there from 7:35 to 2:30. We're there 1 hr 25 min longer (I think) and our system seems to be behind there (at least up to college). I propose that a 80% should be passing from 1-12. A B- Not only that, but we need less emphasis on attendance. In other countries, life France and Japan, the kids want to learn and wouldn't miss a day of school if their life depended on it. They realize that if they mees up in school, they're in for a shit life. We need the same thing - if kids really don't want to come to class, then fine, it's their future. We can't have these truant officers, but some badass cops roaming the streets. Anybody got some suggestions for my super (or not so super) system? __________________

03-04-2002, 06:35 PM	#2
Lilly Rock n' Roll Doggie FOB Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: back and to the left Posts: 8,523 Local Time: 12:17 AM	BAH! Attendance shmattendance. I have skipped school plenty of times (and have gone great places, like the world's largest ball of twine!) and it hasn't hurt me yet. I understand that school is important, but there are days I just don't want to be there. I do my homework and get the credit and everything is fine. If I miss a day, it won't hurt. I think that we need to learn more in school. I don't believe that Americans as a whole are an educated people by any means and it is quite upsetting. I realize kids need to go to school to learn, but frankly I'm not missing anything when I'm gone. I'm in 2 AP classes and am preparing myself for 2 AP exams on my own. These are my only reasons for going to school right now. I am a second semester senior, I get good grades, I am a competant "articulate and intelligent" individual that after next Tuesday will have all of the credits she needs to graduate. Minnesota kids also attend school from 7:35 to 2:25, but I don't think that time frame has anything to do with anything (other than it being REALLY early in the morning). Education needs to be started in the home at an early age, by the time kids are in high school age their educational future is pretty much in their hands. If they don't have a strong background supporting education backing them up, then it will be more of a struggle for them to become educated. It all depends on what happens at home, that's the key. And besides, the government is already WAY too far into the school system, no more regulations! ------------------ Proud owner, maker, and baker of THE* U2 cookies* __________________

03-12-2002, 07:20 PM	#18
Miss MacPhisto Banned Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Planet Pleba Posts: 1,957 Local Time: 10:17 PM	You dont learn shit in US schools. Especially not the ones in this state. Its a waste of time, really. You learn how to hate and how to fear, and that is basically it. Many of the most important things to know in life, and to know about people, the country, its problesms, and how to solve them/what needs to be done here...cannot be learned in most schools. They will not teach you, and you will not learn. To really gain knowledge, you MUST go out in the world, OBSERVE people and the world around you, talk to others, listen, and think. A formal education CAN be a wonderful thing if youre fortunate enough to be able to get it, but LIVING is even more important. ------------------ Look...look what you've done to me...You've made me poor and infamous, and I thank you... My name is MISS MACPHISTO...I'm tired and i want to go HOME... "Well you tell...Bonovista,that i said hello and that my codename is Belleview" - Bono before opening night of Anaheim Elevation concert Well tonight thank God it's them, instead of you... [This message has been edited by Miss MacPhisto (edited 03-12-2002).] __________________

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03-04-2002, 07:09 PM	#3
Vorsprung War Child Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Netherlands Posts: 976 Local Time: 07:17 AM	As for france students. As far as I know they don't really like going to school either. Japanese? Well, their system really stinks. It's not that Japanese kids really like school that much, they know they'll have to go there to succeed. Nothing wrong with that you might think. Maybe, but the pressure of performing well at school there is enormous. Not performing simply means becoming an outcast and many many japanese students can't handle the pressure at school. Mainly because of this Japan also has by far the highest amount of suicides amongst teenagers, so I don't think that's what you may call a super educational system. As for me, in The Netherlands. I attended high school from 8.30 till 14.05 or 14.55 most of the time. Maybe that's less than in the US. I also know that high school students over here have fewer days off than American students (about 20 days per year if I'm right). The biggest difference between the american and european school systems is, as far as I know, the fact that after primary school, students go to different schools with different levels of education that fit their level of intellectual performance. ------------------ Vorsprung durch Technik

03-05-2002, 09:13 PM	#7
Zooman91 The Fly Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Carol Stream, IL Posts: 156 Local Time: 06:17 AM	I don't really give a shit about the popular kids either, and I think I phrased it wrong. I'm not an outcast, just an oddball. Besides, this isn't about me, it's about the stupid people of America. If they don't straighten up and fly right, we're gonna be screwed one day. They just need some more pressure on them. (People who can't take it are just wussies.) [This message has been edited by Zooman91 (edited 03-05-2002).]

03-07-2002, 05:39 PM	#9
melon ONE love, blood, life Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Ásgarðr Posts: 11,789 Local Time: 02:17 AM	In defense of America, we educate everyone. As such, our test scores cannot be compared too easily to Europe or Japan or other parts of the world, who, at early ages, separate the "smart ones" from the "dumb ones" with different level of education as Vorsprung mentioned. I have a feeling our test scores are being compared against the "smart ones," while everyone's scores, smart or dumb, gets lumped together in America. That is not to say that our system doesn't need reform, but that it isn't as bad as you'd think. Melon ------------------ "He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time

03-07-2002, 09:09 PM	#10
Zooman91 The Fly Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Carol Stream, IL Posts: 156 Local Time: 06:17 AM	Okay, so my system has... several flaws. I guess it'll be some time before any system we have can go through a total reform. But I must say, I think the reason it sucked is because it started as a joke I made up at school about a month back.

03-09-2002, 12:49 PM	#12
Zooman91 The Fly Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Carol Stream, IL Posts: 156 Local Time: 06:17 AM	You know it Lilly.

03-09-2002, 11:23 PM	#14
Zooman91 The Fly Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Carol Stream, IL Posts: 156 Local Time: 06:17 AM	Maybe you're right dream wanderer. Maybe the education system neglects to average in MY test scores... we might be pleasantly surprised by how we compared, eh?

03-11-2002, 10:36 PM	#16
Zooman91 The Fly Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Carol Stream, IL Posts: 156 Local Time: 06:17 AM	Well, I don't think I was promoting social Darwinism. I just think that people need to start living up to the standards set, which only part of the population lives up to. All we need is a few bars to be raised and put the pressure on them............ unless that is social Darwinism, then you're right.