N.Y. to Open 1st Public Gay High School

[Dreadsox]

NEW YORK - New York City is creating the nation's first public high school for gays, bisexuals and transgender students.

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/breaking_news/6402799.htm

I am sorry, but isn't this the same as segregation? Separate but equal?

I am not saying there are not problems that need to be adressed, but tell me this is not the answer!

 

[sue4u2]

No, it isn't the answer. on so many levels. I thought things were moving towards more understanding and diversity. I thought groups who felt alienated, wanted to be included instead of set off to themselves. I guess I am naive to be hopeful that this generation could be taught to understand. I have to admit I haven't been through what alot of groups have had to endure, so I can't say what I would truly feel if I were anything other than a single,white, female, lower income - based than the national standard- coming up on being classified as a "senior" because I'm 45 year old person. Just the fact I am single, put's me in a tax bracket different from others. I don't get any tax breaks.
Forgive me, I digress. Let me know if you hear of a school that will help me continue my education - at a time I can attend, and will also cover some expenses from my 20 something year old son. Keep in mind I am a senior citizen. (but, I Rock )

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

I am sorry, but isn't this the same as segregation? Separate but equal?

Pretty much, yeah.

Originally posted by Dreadsox
I am not saying there are not problems that need to be adressed, but tell me this is not the answer!

It shouldn't be.

Instead of having homosexual kids go to a separate school, why don't we have the kids who are doing the teasing and treating the homosexual kids like dirt be punished? Why don't we alert their parents about their behavior towards the homosexual kids and have the parents teach their children some manners and respect?

The homosexual kids shouldn't have to have their own school just because some kids at the school they go to now have a problem with it.

Angela

 

[80sU2isBest]

And while we're at it, let's teach the kids to leave other "unpopular" kids alone, also. I'm talking about short kids, fat kids, kids who don't have nice clothes, disabled kids, mentally slow kids.

When I was in elementary and junior high school, I was teased mercilessly for being short.

And the thing I hate more than anything is to hear kids use "retard" as an insult. But what's worse than when kids say it is when adults say it.

 

[Dreadsox]

And while we're at it, let's teach the kids to leave other "unpopular" kids alone, also. I'm talking about short kids, fat kids, kids who don't have nice clothes, disabled kids, mentally slow kids.

When I was in elementary and junior high school, I was teased mercilessly for being short.

And the thing I hate more than anything is to hear kids use "retard" as an insult. But what's worse than when kids say it is when adults say it.

I was saying to my wife after I read this....that we instead of dealing with issues as a society....create these solutions that do not really address the problem.

Your point above is a perfect example. I think of every band kid that has ever been harassed unmercifully for being in the band. There are plenty of examples that I can think of. That said though, one can put down the instrument and walk away from it and the harrasment stops. One cannot walk away from being who they are. I guess putting down the instrument and starting this school are the same in my eyes.

Good points 80's.

 

[verte76]

Yeah, it's divisive. I don't like it. With some kinds of learning disorders and such they have to have special ed teachers and other specialized things so it doesn't compare. This "gay school" thing is politics. Bad politics.

 

[verte76]

And while we're at it, let's teach the kids to leave other "unpopular" kids alone, also. I'm talking about short kids, fat kids, kids who don't have nice clothes, disabled kids, mentally slow kids.

When I was in elementary and junior high school, I was teased mercilessly for being short.

And the thing I hate more than anything is to hear kids use "retard" as an insult. But what's worse than when kids say it is when adults say it.

Very true. I posted before I read this note dammit.

 

[pax]

Just a note: if this functions anything like the Harvey Milk School in San Francisco, it's not that all gay students *have* to attend this high school. They can if they want, but they don't have to.

I wanted to clarify that so it doesn't seem like institutionalized segregation.

Carry on.

 

[Dreadsox]

Just a note: if this functions anything like the Harvey Milk School in San Francisco, it's not that all gay students *have* to attend this high school. They can if they want, but they don't have to.

I wanted to clarify that so it doesn't seem like institutionalized segregation.

Carry on.

Can straight students go there if they so choose?

 

[pax]

I don't know.

I'm not coming down on either side of the issue. Just clarifying.












hiya Dread

 

[Dreadsox]

I don't know.

I'm not coming down on either side of the issue. Just clarifying.


hiya Dread

 

[wolfwill23]

Re: Re: N.Y. to Open 1st Public Gay High School

Instead of having homosexual kids go to a separate school, why don't we have the kids who are doing the teasing and treating the homosexual kids like dirt be punished? Why don't we alert their parents about their behavior towards the homosexual kids and have the parents teach their children some manners and respect?


Angela

Because there is no accountability in this society. Not only should the kids causing the trouble be repremanded, but their parents should be held accountable for their children as well.

 

[deep]

Re: Re: N.Y. to Open 1st Public Gay High School

Instead of having homosexual kids go to a separate school, why don't we have the kids who are doing the teasing and treating the homosexual kids like dirt be punished? Why don't we alert their parents about their behavior towards the homosexual kids and have the parents teach their children some manners and respect?


Angela

Their parents probably have similiar attitudes.
Most prejudice is learned at an early age.

 

[Klaus]

When i first read the subject i thought there is a school where you can learn to become gay

Anyway, back to the topic, i don't think it is good to open a school were you are only allowed to attend with a certain sexual orientation. Also i understand the problems seperation is no solution to me.
Should we open schools for colored people again in areas where they are discriminated in regular schools or should we try to stop any discrimination?
I'm for the later

Klaus

 

[melon]

I don't think this is segregation, if gay students can choose to go there or not. The fact of the matter is that this wouldn't even be an issue, if the proper authorities had actually done their job over the decades and put a firm stand against homophobia. On the contrary, many school districts encourage it and some states even have laws that prohibit homosexuality to be mentioned in any light, except for negative comments about it.

Straight society, frankly, has failed these kids time and time again, and I hate having to watch yet another generation of gay youth come out disillusioned and broken, because of the crap that they have to endure just to be who they are. I agree that this isn't the answer, necessarily, but I don't think American society really even cares to solve it, considering the federal "Defense of Marriage" amendment proposal floating around their homophobic little skulls.

Melon

 

[Angela Harlem]

I think the long term consequences of having schools like this would be damaging for all parties concerned. The homosexual youth will sure have a safe and welcoming school environment which should be the right of any child, but what happens when these kids leave school and their peers who never had the opportunity to look past bias still retain the fear or revolt of homosexuality by becoming familiar and learned on it, are suddenly working side by side out in the real world and the problem is still there? Its not good enough putting the problem 'away' to be dealt with at a later stage. If we want our children to learn acceptance, we have to teach it while they are children.

Another thing is how many young kids really know where they're at? How many young girls for example might get a crush on a female teacher or school friend and get the teenage confusion about what's really happening? A lot of kids go through this phase and its troubling enough. Which kind of leads on to another problem homosexuals face which is 'coming out'. Many find it hard enough to do this when they've reached maturity, the backlash one can find is phenomenal and really something that can only be truly appreciated by someone who has gone through it. I don't know what the age is when American kids reach High School, over here it is 12-13. If its a hard time for an adult, I'd hate to think how difficult a time it might be for a 12 year old to suddenly find they need the inner strength and guts that most adults still battle with when they feel its time.

 

[pax]

I would like to continue this discussion, but I don't want to see the thread derailed. So that the discussion about taunting, which is good in itself, can go on, I'm doing a split.

This thread should remain focused on the issue of the gay school. Thread about teasing/taunting to follow shortly.

 

[Dreadsox]

I believe it is segregation. We have many different groups that cannot change who they are. Are we going to start a public school for women? There are plenty of examples of young women being harassed by students and teachers. Even still, there are studies that show that teachers call on boys more often then girls reinforcing all kinds of negative things. Many techers call on the first hands they see up, when studies have shown women/girls take slightly longer in processing time. Then we have the boys who do not keep their hands to themselves.

So why not?????

Aren't women as deserving of a place where they can learn?
What about African Americans?
What about Hispanics?
What about "insert here"?

It is wrong. Separate but equal was determined illegal in regards to race. It should be found illegal now if tax $$$ is being used to pay for it. Where are the adults in these schools? Why aren't they doing anything about it?

 

[joyfulgirl]

I agree with melon. While not a great permanent solution, I think it's an interesting experiment.

 

[BVS]

Skin color, race, gender...these are all things you can't change and with years and years of fighting stereotypes people are finally coming around to understand that their fears and hatreds are wrong. It's taken this long for many to realize they can't justifiy their prejudices against something a person can't change, and yet, still these are major issues today.

But people still think homosexuality is a choice. There are people in this very forum that believe this, and therefore they'll use religion, skewed logic etc. to call them sinners and to try and take away their rights. No kid should have to go through this, and not that I believe these schools will be the best answer but it may be a good band aid until the wound is actually healed. Until people actually see them through the same eyes they see there straight friend.

 

[Dreadsox]

No kid should have to go through this, and not that I believe these schools will be the best answer but it may be a good band aid until the wound is actually healed. Until people actually see them through the same eyes they see there straight friend.

Fund them privately then. Public MONEY should not be used to separate children.

Show me how separating black and white students helped to see them as equal when segregation in effect.

Separating people has not demonstrated that it changes the way people feel about one another.

 

[sulawesigirl4]

I think it should be pointed out however that it is choice, not forced segregation. That seems to me to be a vital difference.

 

[Klaus]

sulawesigirl4:
you're right, but i stil think that this sends out the wrong signals. Neither color of the skin nor sexual orientation should be any reason that you need a special school for them.
So called "normal" people have to accept that they exist and they have to get used to them. The money end the energy should rather be spent to raise acceptance in the "regular" schools

Klaus

p.s. naiming a "normal" school after that guy would maybe be a good start

 

[sulawesigirl4]

I'm not saying I think it's a good or a bad idea. I just think it is an interesting one.

 

[BVS]

Fund them privately then. Public MONEY should not be used to separate children.

Show me how separating black and white students helped to see them as equal when segregation in effect.

Separating people has not demonstrated that it changes the way people feel about one another.

Maybe it's partially the public school's fault for not doing their job to promote equality.

I agree separation doesn't change a damn thing as far as people's views, but it may bring short safe haven for those who didn't feel safe in "coming out" in a straight environment. Segregation was wrong, but do you think FORCED integration is better? It's obvious that homosexual adolescents are having problems in an environment that isn't exactly condusive to them learning.

Maybe a program within the schools is a better solution one where gay and lesbians feel comfortable coming out and straight kids learn understanding and tolerance.

 

[Dreadsox]

Maybe it's partially the public school's fault for not doing their job to promote equality.

First of all, I totally disagree that the schools are not doing enough to promote equality. 1/2 my Master's Degree classes dealt with different learning styles based on gender and race. An entire course was spent learning about diversity in reference to gender, sexual orientation, and race and how to adapt your teaching styles to improve learning. Most education programs towards certification deal with these topics.

I cannot say that every public school is not doing this but I can say that in my school we are dealing with this early on. I can say that we do 1 Hour a week in my elementary school on tolorence towards others and violence prevention. It does not get deep into sexual orientation, however, if the topic comes up it is addressed. As I said I can only speak to my experience as a teacher. At the high school there are organized groups and clubs that are specifically for gay and lesbian students. I teach in the lower grades so I am not part of this.

I can say that there are lessons in which parents have requested that their child not be allowed to attend. I firmly believe that we as teachers can teach until we are blue in the face about equality and tolorence, but IF the parents at home are racist biggots, you are not going to make a difference.

I agree separation doesn't change a damn thing as far as people's views, but it may bring short safe haven for those who didn't feel safe in "coming out" in a straight environment. Segregation was wrong, but do you think FORCED integration is better? It's obvious that homosexual adolescents are having problems in an environment that isn't exactly condusive to them learning.

Isn't FORCED integration what happened in the US about 50 years or so ago?

If you agree this will not change the views of people, how do you propose it will help change views? Will they be going onto Gay Colleges and into Gay jobs so that they can be shielded further? Aren't we reinforcing the perception that they are somehow unable to cope with their peers?

What about black students? In the other thread we have people protesting that white teachers cannot teach Black History to black students. Could it therefore be argued that straight teachers cannot teach to gay students?

What the hell happened to equality for all? I am going to have a hard time teaching that segregation is wrong this year.

Maybe a program within the schools is a better solution one where gay and lesbians feel comfortable coming out and straight kids learn understanding and tolerance.

There are programs. I am curious though, how much more time need be spent on these things in the classroom. It begins at HOME. What subjects should be cut short in order to fit this in?

 

[najeena]

It sure sounds like segregation to me, though a private gay school would be a different matter. Like the first black kids that had to deal with the hostility of an all white school, I'm afraid these first openly gay kids will have a hard time.

 

[BVS]

First of all, I totally disagree that the schools are not doing enough to promote equality. 1/2 my Master's Degree classes dealt with different learning styles based on gender and race. An entire course was spent learning about diversity in reference to gender, sexual orientation, and race and how to adapt your teaching styles to improve learning. Most education programs towards certification deal with these topics.

I cannot say that every public school is not doing this but I can say that in my school we are dealing with this early on. I can say that we do 1 Hour a week in my elementary school on tolorence towards others and violence prevention. It does not get deep into sexual orientation, however, if the topic comes up it is addressed. As I said I can only speak to my experience as a teacher. At the high school there are organized groups and clubs that are specifically for gay and lesbian students. I teach in the lower grades so I am not part of this.

You're very fortunate. We don't have these programs here. I have many close friends who are teachers and I've had this discussion with them.

I can say that there are lessons in which parents have requested that their child not be allowed to attend. I firmly believe that we as teachers can teach until we are blue in the face about equality and tolorence, but IF the parents at home are racist biggots, you are not going to make a difference. [/B]

I know. I've never taught in a public school, but I've worked with youth since I was a freshman in college, I know there are some kids you may never reach. But there are many you can.

Isn't FORCED integration what happened in the US about 50 years or so ago?
[/B]

Yes and that part I was playing more of devil's advocate than I was anything. But I'm curious as to if violence would have been curved if it was more gradual.

 

[Dreadsox]

Yes and that part I was playing more of devil's advocate than I was anything. But I'm curious as to if violence would have been curved if it was more gradual.

Interesting point....I wonder....however do you think that the leaders of the Civil Rights movement wanted it to be gradual?

 

[Dreadsox]

You're very fortunate. We don't have these programs here. I have many close friends who are teachers and I've had this discussion with them.

The problem too is that with the high stakes testing that is being brought into most states along with the requirements of no child left behind, the 1 hour a week would be the first thing that many teachers would cut from their plans to squeeze in content.

Peace