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Old 12-07-2002, 02:53 PM   #1
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My Mainstream Muslim Concern..

How come the peaceful- mainstream Muslims have not been more vocal, more forecful in denouncing fanatical Muslims?
I have a problem w this.

The peaceful Muslims outnumber the fanatics AT LEAST 10 to 1. Could be 20 to 1.
For every 10 peaceful, rational Muslim there is 1 crack pot terrorist Muslim.
How come freedom peaceful Muslims have not united to snuff out the terrorists?

I dont get it.

In our country we snuff out religous and fanatical terrorist-whackos.. regardless of religous afflilation..

So whats up here.?

Its time rational ppl take action against irrational ppl to prevent future bloodshed..

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Old 12-07-2002, 03:17 PM   #2
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Re: My Mainstream Muslim Concern..

Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


In our country we snuff out religous and fanatical terrorist-whackos.. regardless of religous afflilation..

We DO?? Diamond, other than Waco, I can't even think of an instance where the U.S. government has "snuffed out" a fanatical terrorist wacko.

Here in the States, until a fanatic actually commits a crime, they are left free to spout off in any way they please. Free speech, and all that sort of rot. Whaddya gonna do? Jail people 'cause they proffer questionable ideals and ideas in public??

I think it's a hard call. In an authoritarian government, sure, you can nail people for their questionable speech, but the real terrorists are gonna be hard to find -- if they're smart.
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Old 12-07-2002, 03:21 PM   #3
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I think Diamond has a point. He is not just talking about the USA, he is talking about Muslims worldwide. Bin Ladin is probably hiding in Pakistan, perhaps with the aid of non-fanitical muslims.
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Old 12-07-2002, 03:35 PM   #4
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Re: Re: My Mainstream Muslim Concern..

Quote:
Originally posted by pub crawler



We DO?? Diamond, other than Waco, I can't even think of an instance where the U.S. government has "snuffed out" a fanatical terrorist wacko.

Here in the States, until a fanatic actually commits a crime, they are left free to spout off in any way they please. Free speech, and all that sort of rot. Whaddya gonna do? Jail people 'cause they proffer questionable ideals and ideas in public??

I think it's a hard call. In an authoritarian government, sure, you can nail people for their questionable speech, but the real terrorists are gonna be hard to find -- if they're smart.
Im talking of how we more or less know where Al Queda is hiding and no one close to them is saying -'Yo here are the bastards, right here, come grab em".


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Old 12-07-2002, 05:04 PM   #5
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That's because anyone close to them is one of them.
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Old 12-07-2002, 05:11 PM   #6
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right, and the kkk is abolished completely.

nazi's, ya, only millions of people agreed with their philosophy at one time.

diamond, though you raise a valid question, the same question could definately be placed on christianity, dont you think?
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Old 12-07-2002, 05:14 PM   #7
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Re: My Mainstream Muslim Concern..

Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
How come the peaceful- mainstream Muslims have not been more vocal, more forecful in denouncing fanatical Muslims?
Maybe it's because don't feel they have anything more to prove than you or I.
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Old 12-07-2002, 05:26 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zoomerang96

diamond, though you raise a valid question, the same question could definately be placed on christianity, dont you think?
I think there was a thread on this very idea a few months back when Mr. Falwell made some rediculous comments on 60 Minutes.

Radicals/Extremists no matter what religion or political persuasion seem to get the press while the moderates get left behind. It is unfortunate, because the rest of the moderates are left with the stigma of being associated with the extremes.

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Old 12-07-2002, 06:06 PM   #9
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well thats right dreadsox, and the bottom line is who do you think the media is going to focus on? someone who has nothing exciting to say or someone who is very vocal and extreme in their views?
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Old 12-07-2002, 06:15 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zoomerang96
well thats right dreadsox, and the bottom line is who do you think the media is going to focus on? someone who has nothing exciting to say or someone who is very vocal and extreme in their views?
Isn't that the way most talk radio shows are????? It's what makes Springer a success too!!!!!!

Moderates are boring and do not sell.

Peace
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Old 12-07-2002, 06:54 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zoomerang96
right, and the kkk is abolished completely.

nazi's, ya, only millions of people agreed with their philosophy at one time.

diamond, though you raise a valid question, the same question could definately be placed on christianity, dont you think?
no, not current day Christianity..
which is my point.
In this day and age if a Christain lunatic kills innocent ppl , in the general population here, we say "come get this lunatic", our citizens do not try and harbor them/him.

In the USA , if the KKK does something stupid or violent we are very quick to jail and proscecute the bastards and rightfully so..

I see a lack of urgency in the moderate Muslim world..to do the same w their whackos...

This is what is unsettling and aggravating..

thats all.
thank u-

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Old 12-07-2002, 08:13 PM   #12
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Well, to phrase this simply, I don't think its as easy as all that, its not as black and white. I think the parties concerned are divided into two groups, those who feel they dont have anything to prove, and the other, those who feel that there are more questions to be asked, as in; who's the lesser evil, Pro-Zionist America or Osama Bin Laden?

There are people, moderate islamic people in all areas accross the world, who have an image of Osama Bin Laden on their mobile phone screens, these are the ones who do not think the same way Bush's 'with us or against us' mentality. And, I am sorry to say, a very large proportion of such people make up the Islamic population. What these implications consist of, is another question altogether.

Ultimately, what does it matter if they renounce them? Saudi is doing a great job at renouncing terrorists, but I wouldn't politically put my head into their lion's mouth.

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Old 12-07-2002, 09:00 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
no, not current day Christianity..
which is my point.
In this day and age if a Christain lunatic kills innocent ppl , in the general population here, we say "come get this lunatic", our citizens do not try and harbor them/him.
Also, to the extent that there is a militant violent extreme to Christianity, mainstream Christians regularly denounce such activities, primarily from the pulpit.

After 9/11, mainstream Muslim groups denounced the terrorist attacks. Diamond, are you referring to the regular silence after other terrorist attacks?
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Old 12-07-2002, 09:27 PM   #14
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Well if you are talking about American Muslims I think they have done a fine job. Right after the attacks they seemed to be denouncing everything. Now if you are talking about Muslims in the MidEast then i wouldnt think of you to be the expert in the field. I think what ZOO saif about Christian and more specifically Catholics. After all the rapes in the church i certainly dont thikn the outrage has been what it should be. Look the priests that commited these crimes and the people that oversay them are still around not locked up in jail.

To attack the moderate Muslim for not jumping around denounceing 9/11 is an invalid attack. We dont live there we certainly dont know of the conversations between the people of the countries.
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Old 12-08-2002, 12:55 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Diamond, are you referring to the regular silence after other terrorist attacks?
Yes.

The almost silent complicity.

Im referring to the inaction of peaceful Muslims living abroad knowing where terrorist Muslims are currently hiding and not exposing them and offering them up.

American Muslims here and peaceful Muslims living abroad that denounce terrorism I applaud.

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Old 12-08-2002, 01:06 PM   #16
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Well think about it


when James kopp shot Dr. Slepian


Christian leaders openly said that that sort of violence is not acceptable and not condoned.


Now....all I hear from palestinian leadership is that "well suicide bombings are bad BUT......"



There is an overwhelmingly silent majority of islamic leaders around the world that are not stressing non violence as a means of protest.


How many non violent protests against israeli occupation do you see in the middle east?

Also you have the Saudi royal family...and ally of the US is funding terror on one end and denouncing it on the other...that's the strongest condemnation of violence in the middle east.

Where is the moderate press??? where are the moderate leaders? where is this commitment to peace ?


arafat had the best deal anyone could ask for on the table and turned it down. And then..turns around and tries to import arms from iran. Is that the most moderate leadership out there?

I'm not saying it's not their...but salman rushdie himself said that the moderate muslim population has to be more vocal. And I wholeheartedly agree.


American muslims are people I have a lot of symapthy and respect for they have had to put with and defend their faitha lot after 9/11 a position I don't particularly envy.
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Old 12-08-2002, 02:17 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Arun V
Well think about it


when James kopp shot Dr. Slepian


Christian leaders openly said that that sort of violence is not acceptable and not condoned.


Now....all I hear from palestinian leadership is that "well suicide bombings are bad BUT......"



There is an overwhelmingly silent majority of islamic leaders around the world that are not stressing non violence as a means of protest.


How many non violent protests against israeli occupation do you see in the middle east?




arafat had the best deal anyone could ask for on the table and turned it down. And then..turns around and tries to import arms from iran. Is that the most moderate leadership out there?

I'm not saying it's not their...but salman rushdie himself said that the moderate muslim population has to be more vocal. And I wholeheartedly agree.


American muslims are people I have a lot of symapthy and respect for they have had to put with and defend their faitha lot after 9/11 a position I don't particularly envy.
yes
Arun this is part of my aggravation.



I did have a conversation w a person a bit more knowledgeable than I.
He said although most of the Muslim world is not openly violent the Shite Muslim which is about 20 percent is the most violent and feared by the majority.

I do not know if this is accurate or not.

I do not think a reg Muslim..a "Joe Muslim" wants to kill ppl of any religion.
Even though there was violence in their pasts and orgins of current day mainstream-

-Muslims
-Catholics
-Mormons
-Protestants

mainstream members of these faiths are not violent ppl.

Its high time the minstreamers stamp out the fringe lunatics of all faiths who choose to kill.

Out-
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Old 12-09-2002, 09:59 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
I do not think a reg Muslim..a "Joe Muslim" wants to kill ppl of any religion.
Actually, I think the proper translation would be "Yusef Islam." That is the name Cat Stevens took when he converted to Islam, and it would translate to Joseph "Joe" Muslim. He did, however, accept the Ayatollah Khomeini's fatwa against Salman Rushdie, causing Natalie Merchant and 10,000 Maniacs to pull the Cat Stevens song "Peace Train" from all futute pressings of hte IN MY TRIBE CD.

~U2Alabama
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Old 12-09-2002, 10:28 PM   #19
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i see.
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Old 12-09-2002, 11:53 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
i see.
i hereby declare to sing no more Cat Steven's songs at future Karaoke gigs

thank u-

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