My bank is crooked

[Green Light 711]

I knew credit cards did this, but banks?? I am in the hole right now, and I think they did it on purpose. I just had 4 debit card purchases 'bounce' on me, though at the store they said 'approved' when I bought them. Then I went to the bank to take out 20 bucks from the ATM and it told me I did not have that much money in the bank! I checked the balance and it said I was $160 dollars in the hole! I called them up and asked them, was I overdrawn when they approved those last 4 debit purchases, and they said YES! I was under the impression that if you had no money to cover the purchase, and the bank was well aware, it should have come up as a DECLINE at the store, right? I said, WHY did you approve me when I had no money in the bank?? They said it was their 'descretion' well, I am sure it's because they WANTED me to go over so they could hit me for 30 f-ing dollars each time, and then again a second time! WHY else would they possibly approve me, knowing I was overdrawn? They never said it was a mistake, they admitted they did it on purpose! What else could it be? So here I sit on New Year's Eve, not getting paid until Friday, knowing they will all come through again tonight and charge me another $120 in 'fees!' Not since the days of debtors' prison has there been anything so unfair and crooked to the already destitute. For the record, this is a very large well known bank that operates in 3 states.

 

[BVS]

I think most banks do this.

No offense, but isn't it your responsibility to balance your account?

 

[kobayashi]

its common practice.
granted, its a shock the first time you experience it but it is hard to avoid.

otherwise, how do you expect the banks to post billion dollar profits?

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

yes i fell into this trip too... the banks tell you "oh sure... take this debit card and use it just like a credit card! it'll take the money out of your checking account!" to which i respond "so if i don't have the money it'll show up declined?" to which they say "of course it will!"

what they fail to mention is that certain service locations... gas stations and the like... only need 1 cent in the account in order to activate the debit card. so if you have .5 cents in your account, ya go to the local hess station, pump in 25 bucks of gas, you can get it... then when you check your statement you'll have the -$24.95, plus a 30 dollar charge for over-drawing your account, a 5 dollar charge for taking too long at the atm, 7.50 for not throwing out your reciept with 2 minutes and 37 seconds, and a 10 dollar convenience charge... just for your convienece. you'll be 100 down in no time.



my favorite bank issue... the reason why i'm no longer with fleet... happened 2 years ago. i deposited a 1500 dollar check into my checking account durring lunch time on friday. now my checking account is, or rather was, with fleet, and my work, who the check came from, also uses fleet. so it was a fleet check going into a fleet account.

the following day i took a few friends out for lunch in manhattan... my treat. the lunch is over... the bill is like 110 bucks or so... so i give them my debit card to pay for it. it comes back declined... i'm like "that can't be possiable." i had the money to cover it in cash, so i just through down the money in cash and we left. i then tried to use the account again, and it was declined again. i call fleet up and ask them what's the problem? they tell me that the check i deposited friday won't clear till tuesday afternoon. so i ask them a few simple questions... "if i had just gone their with my check and cashed it, you would've given me the money on the spot, correct?" and they answer yes... "ok, if i then took that cash and deposited it into my fleet checking account, it would be available immediately, correct?" again... yes. "so can't you help me out here and make the money that you know is valid because it's already in your system available so i can go out tonight like i planned on?" no sorry sir... i can't do that.

fuckers... i just took a few bucks out of the ol' savings account and spent that, then transfered the money over tuesday. i hate banks.

 

[Green Light 711]

If most banks do this, it's news to me, and they're all crooked. Of course that's how they post billions in profit, off the backs of the poorest people who can't afford it.

I'm sorry Headache Thanks for understanding and telling your story too. That was awful! I do believe they do it on purpose. And dammit, if you have no money in the bank, they shouldn't keep letting stuff go through unless they are trying to rip people off, which is what I believe. I hate banks too. My neighbor has not had a bank account in years because of the way they operate, bouncing your check in the middle of the night, yet telling you a deposit takes several days to post, come on. Now I know why old miserly men bury their cash in the backyard.

 

[Elvis]

Cash is a wonderful thing.

Cash can't be bounced.

Cash can be used pretty much anywhere.

Cash can be used when the power is out.

Cash won't give up personal information.

Cash doesn't require access codes or a signature to use it.

Cash is to the point.

Don't get mugged

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

Admittedly I've only ever used two banks, but both of them had the same policy. I guess you just have to be careful that to know exactly how much money is in your account before you can use your debit card. Having to pay your bank money for something like this is so annoying though.

 

[ILuvLarryMullen]

same thing has happened to me too. At some places (especially gas stations) when you use your debit card it doesn't post to your account until like three days later, so you check your account balance and end up thinking you have more than you do because things haven't gone through yet.


What I hate is ATM fees. I don't have a problem with paying the 1.50 or whatever that I get charged when i use a different bank's atm, but what drives me insane is that my own bank (wells fargo) charges me another 2 dollars on top of what the other bank charged me. So it ends up costing me 3.50 to take $20 out of the bank . I know that there are other banks that don't do this, which makes me even madder

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

i'm with elvis on this one... i go with chase for now, just because ya need to have some sort of account, but i keep the bare minimum in my accounts... most of my check goes to el banko de headacheo... which is located directly below this keyboard. cash is the way to go... ya spend a lot less when you can actually visably see what you have. this is especially true at bars... i'm still paying for some of the bar tabs i've run when i use a credit card...

 

[joyfulgirl]

A friend of mine fought with his bank over this same issue and lost. He, however, had been sent a letter explaining the new policy and originally thought it was really cool that he had access to a $750 line of credit for a $25 fee (each time he used it, he would conveniently forget). But he abused it and got screwed (or rather, screwed himself). You should have at least been told in writing about the policy if it began after you were already a customer.

I'm not sure if my bank has this policy or not since I have never *knockonwood* overdrawn. But I miss the good ol' days when for a measly $6 monthly service charge, my old bank extended overdraft protection up to $500 with no additional fees. That truly helped me out one year when I had a lot of unexpected expenses. I lived in the red on that line of credit until I got my finances sorted out.

 

[BAW]

I love the little thing my bank calls "uncollected funds"

I'm self employed and have 2 accounts...business and personal. I do most of my banking online and when its time to pay myself, I simply do an electronic transfer from one account into the other. The funds are obviously available because I am able to make the transfer.

The problem happens when I actually go inside the bank and pay myself by check. Its the exact same procedure as an electronic transfer...my money goes from one of my accounts to the other. Nothing needs to clear because my balance is right there and the teller couldn't do it if funds weren't sufficient.

On occasion, for some strange unknown reason, the money that I've transfered into my personal account is held as "uncollected funds" Instead of bouncing, checks written on that account will clear but I'm charged $25 per transaction, just like a bounced check fee! The money is THERE and according to the bank, there is NO HOLD but the funds aren't available.

I've complained about this SO many times and have had my fees refunded twice but I've never been able to get an explanation as to why they do this.

 

[ILuvLarryMullen]

cause they're probably hoping you won't notice Char

 

[tiny dancer]

I think I have changed my mind on getting a Debit Card.

 

[U2Kitten]

I agree with everyone's gripes and have suffered very much myself. Electronic money is too abstract and easy to spend, for me anyway. Cash does show you just how fast it's going. I have been so stupid, or really scared and depressed, that I haven't checked my balance because I just didn't want to know how broke I was Lame move, because it only leads to being broke, not knowing it and getting into trouble. It really sucks to always be so close to overdrawn. Damn I wish I was rich

 

[melon]

my favorite bank issue... the reason why i'm no longer with fleet... happened 2 years ago. i deposited a 1500 dollar check into my checking account durring lunch time on friday. now my checking account is, or rather was, with fleet, and my work, who the check came from, also uses fleet. so it was a fleet check going into a fleet account.

the following day i took a few friends out for lunch in manhattan... my treat. the lunch is over... the bill is like 110 bucks or so... so i give them my debit card to pay for it. it comes back declined... i'm like "that can't be possiable." i had the money to cover it in cash, so i just through down the money in cash and we left. i then tried to use the account again, and it was declined again. i call fleet up and ask them what's the problem? they tell me that the check i deposited friday won't clear till tuesday afternoon. so i ask them a few simple questions... "if i had just gone their with my check and cashed it, you would've given me the money on the spot, correct?" and they answer yes... "ok, if i then took that cash and deposited it into my fleet checking account, it would be available immediately, correct?" again... yes. "so can't you help me out here and make the money that you know is valid because it's already in your system available so i can go out tonight like i planned on?" no sorry sir... i can't do that.

fuckers... i just took a few bucks out of the ol' savings account and spent that, then transfered the money over tuesday. i hate banks.

1) There are a few reasons why that could have been delayed until Tuesday. Was it in an ATM? Over a holiday weekend? Do you have lots of past NSF activity that would make your account suspect for fraud? Needless to say, you should have cashed it out first before you deposited it. Fleet automatically puts holds on the checks it deposits, because the idea is to prevent check fraud. A Fleet check in a Fleet bank should take one business day to clear otherwise, unless for those above mentioned reasons.

2) Even if those funds were not available right away, you could either have set up a cash reserve overdraft protection, which could have covered any overdrafts with no NSF fees, or you could have set up a savings account overdraft, which would take funds out of a savings account, if you overdrew the checking account, for a nominal fee.

Banks are tricky, yes, and Fleet has had some past customer service issues, but many of the complications in banking these days come less out of greed and more out of precautions to prevent fraud, which happens far more than one would realize. However, there are plenty of products out there to prevent these issues, if you understand how the banking system works.

From Interference.com's favorite Fleet employee...

Melon

 

[melon]

I love the little thing my bank calls "uncollected funds"

I'm self employed and have 2 accounts...business and personal. I do most of my banking online and when its time to pay myself, I simply do an electronic transfer from one account into the other. The funds are obviously available because I am able to make the transfer.

The problem happens when I actually go inside the bank and pay myself by check. Its the exact same procedure as an electronic transfer...my money goes from one of my accounts to the other. Nothing needs to clear because my balance is right there and the teller couldn't do it if funds weren't sufficient.

On occasion, for some strange unknown reason, the money that I've transfered into my personal account is held as "uncollected funds" Instead of bouncing, checks written on that account will clear but I'm charged $25 per transaction, just like a bounced check fee! The money is THERE and according to the bank, there is NO HOLD but the funds aren't available.

I've complained about this SO many times and have had my fees refunded twice but I've never been able to get an explanation as to why they do this.

They deposit the check like any other check--e.g., they are not cashing out your check before they deposit it. Hence, that check goes through the same funds availability rules as any other check that you have deposited. I'm guessing that what is happening is that you deposit the check, making the funds not available until the *next* business day. Overnight, you have checks clear on unavailable funds--hence the $25 fee per transaction.

I would suggest two things:

1) Just do all your transfers electronically from now on, whether through online banking or the ATM (if you have access to both accounts that way).

2) Force the tellers to cash the check first and then deposit the cash into the account. Cash deposits are not subject to funds availability, and, thus, are available immediately.

Melon

 

[melon]

If most banks do this, it's news to me, and they're all crooked. Of course that's how they post billions in profit, off the backs of the poorest people who can't afford it.

Either balance your checkbook (it is not the bank's responsibility to do that) or get overdraft protection. The latter will determine on how credit worthy you are.

The $25 per transaction NSF fee is to discourage people from bouncing their account, so, when you rack up those $160 NSF charges, you learn to balance your checkbook.

Melon

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

1) There are a few reasons why that could have been delayed until Tuesday. Was it in an ATM? Over a holiday weekend? Do you have lots of past NSF activity that would make your account suspect for fraud? Needless to say, you should have cashed it out first before you deposited it. Fleet automatically puts holds on the checks it deposits, because the idea is to prevent check fraud. A Fleet check in a Fleet bank should take one business day to clear otherwise, unless for those above mentioned reasons.

2) Even if those funds were not available right away, you could either have set up a cash reserve overdraft protection, which could have covered any overdrafts with no NSF fees, or you could have set up a savings account overdraft, which would take funds out of a savings account, if you overdrew the checking account, for a nominal fee.

Banks are tricky, yes, and Fleet has had some past customer service issues, but many of the complications in banking these days come less out of greed and more out of precautions to prevent fraud, which happens far more than one would realize. However, there are plenty of products out there to prevent these issues, if you understand how the banking system works.

From Interference.com's favorite Fleet employee...

Melon

it wasn't a holiday weekend... just a normal weekend. i had asked the teller to make the funds available immediately (cash the check, deposit the cash) which she said was not a problem. turned out to be a problem. my rating with them was fine. the only time i ever overdrew my account was my freshman year in college, and that was on a chase student account. with fleet i was in good standing. the teller just screwed up, it was obvious the teller screwed up, but customer service didn't seem to care. i switched banks the next week... i still hate fleet... no offense.

 

[Soul Always]

Long Live Credit Unions!!!!!! I don't have ANY of these problems.

 

[Ft. Worth Frog]

Melon, I am with you on your explanation. I worked for a few years for the Fargo and really learned a lot about the daily operations of the bank. I learned that once you are the teller, the customer often views you as the "enemy". The problem lies in the fact that few people actually understand the way banks operate-I sure didn't until I began working there. The whole "same day or next day availability" of deposits issue is pretty prickly.

About debit cards, there is no reason to be afraid of them. My advice is do not look at the balance given on the ATM or on the receipt, because it does not know what items have not cleared yet. Instead, always keep a running balance of your account so mishaps like this do not happen. BTW, I am no longer at the Fargo, but I like to put a good word in for my friends still there. They have a free checking account, and you can link a savings account as OD protection free of charge. If you have a WF Visa or MC that can also be linked to the account. It just take some research and openness to the banking industry to learn that we (well not "we" anymore) are not trying to steal money from account holders.

 

[melon]

the teller just screwed up, it was obvious the teller screwed up, but customer service didn't seem to care. i switched banks the next week... i still hate fleet... no offense.

It's true. The teller probably did screw up. Unfortunately, once it leaves the branch of deposit, there's absolutely nothing that can be done.

Melon

 

[Seabird]

Once I put my paycheck in on a Friday, then went out and wrote checks on it. All those checks bounced. They told me a check could come in any time, even 3 am, but the paycheck could take up to 10 days to post? Come on. I always heard deposits are put in before checks if the deposit came first which mine did, so what happened? I did change banks.

 

[melon]

The paycheck has to clear first! Anyone could write a bad check, including and especially businesses. That problem of yours could be solved with direct deposit, if you have that option.

Melon

 

[melon]

BTW, the maximum is five business days in the U.S., unless an exception hold is placed.

Melon

 

[Dreadsox]

I love direct deposit.

 

[BAW]

Thanks for the explanation Melon...it makes sense.


And I will be the first to admit that as much as I love to complain about my bank and their procedures, 99% of the problems/screw ups I've had have been my fault. I go to a small in-store branch and have a great relationship with the tellers...before I had the electronic transfer option, the bank manager used to call me if it looked like I was going to overdraw my account...they would give me time to come down and make a deposit.

That said, when I was a customer of a huge mega-bank, I had nothing but problems so maybe the key is using a smaller bank or credit union?

 

[sue4u2]

No offense Melon but sometime's THEY are wrong!! I went inside my the bank the day the direct deposit is "there for your use" (according to the automated line)
getting a balance from the teller of what is there - not counting the direct deposit. Everything ok right.. wrong three days later the nsf notices start coming in? This happened to me with $800.00 direct deposit sitting in the bank. and started with a 5.04 life insurance ach debit that came out when I was told I had $47.00 in before the deposit. Cust. serv. said having several transactions come in that night, but the direct deposit hasn't been posted yet, yeah but why was I told there for my use??
I'd been with the bank for 6 yrs. I went in to close my account and demanded the money I was screwed on and they replaced 5 out of 8 nsf chg's of $32 ea. I used the equivalent of the other three very quickly and withdrew the rest of my money before those transactions went thru. Underhanded yes, and I fought it thru having receipts and actually taped the conversation with cus.serv who couldn't figure out why anything bounced in the first place. I wasn't paying for their computer gliches. That was during the summer and I keep getting mail to come back to this bank. Sure, that's going to happen.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

cold hard cash... the only way to go. screw banks... banks are a business... the goal of a business is to make money. yeah most of the things that cause us regular non banking schmos to lose all this money could be avoided by us. but most of us don't have the time to break out a microscope and read, analyze and break down the 50 pages of small print given out when you open up an account.

 

[melon]

No offense Melon but sometime's THEY are wrong!! I went inside my the bank the day the direct deposit is "there for your use" (according to the automated line)
getting a balance from the teller of what is there - not counting the direct deposit. Everything ok right.. wrong three days later the nsf notices start coming in? This happened to me with $800.00 direct deposit sitting in the bank. and started with a 5.04 life insurance ach debit that came out when I was told I had $47.00 in before the deposit. Cust. serv. said having several transactions come in that night, but the direct deposit hasn't been posted yet, yeah but why was I told there for my use??
I'd been with the bank for 6 yrs. I went in to close my account and demanded the money I was screwed on and they replaced 5 out of 8 nsf chg's of $32 ea. I used the equivalent of the other three very quickly and withdrew the rest of my money before those transactions went thru. Underhanded yes, and I fought it thru having receipts and actually taped the conversation with cus.serv who couldn't figure out why anything bounced in the first place. I wasn't paying for their computer gliches. That was during the summer and I keep getting mail to come back to this bank. Sure, that's going to happen.

It wasn't a mistake. It's just bad policy. Your direct deposit was probably posted to the "memo ledger," which is where all transactions go before they are hard posted. I'm guessing that this bank does not let automatic credits be immediately available until they are hard posted, and, on top of it, does their debits before their credits, hence racking up maximum NSF charges. Again, though, if you had overdraft protection, this would probably have not been an issue.

Melon

 

[melon]

cold hard cash... the only way to go. screw banks... banks are a business... the goal of a business is to make money. yeah most of the things that cause us regular non banking schmos to lose all this money could be avoided by us. but most of us don't have the time to break out a microscope and read, analyze and break down the 50 pages of small print given out when you open up an account.

So why do you vote Republican then?

Melon