Mistakes Led to Tube Shooting

[meegannie]

I can't find a better article, but the news reports are really interesting.

Mistakes led to tube shooting
6.57PM, Tue Aug 16 2005

ITV News has obtained secret documents and photographs that detail why police shot Jean Charles De Menezes dead on the tube.

The Brazilian electrician was killed on 22 July, the day after the series of failed bombings on the tube and bus network.

The crucial mistake that ultimately led to his death was made at 9.30am when Jean Charles left his flat in Scotia Road, South London.

Surveillance officers wrongly believed he could have been Hussain Osman, one of the prime suspects, or another terrorist suspect.

By 10am that morning, elite firearms officers were provided with what they describe as "positive identification" and shot De Menezes eight times in the head and upper body.

The documents and photographs confirm that Jean Charles was not carrying any bags, and was wearing a denim jacket, not a bulky winter coat, as had previously been claimed.

He was behaving normally, and did not vault the barriers, even stopping to pick up a free newspaper.

He started running when we saw a tube at the platform. Police HAD agreed they would shoot a suspect if he ran.

http://www.itn.co.uk/news/1677571.html

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I have to wonder what the "positive identification" was

that picture is awful

 

[deep]

So if this article is true,

We had a pack of lies before.


He ran to catch a train



and all the people who jumped on board
saying he brought it on himself
were dead wrong

just a bunch of lackeys?

 

[melon]

just a bunch of lackeys?

Probably not that devious. I think, frankly, most people were just plain shocked by the whole thing, and I think that, after hearing what happened, a lot of people want to rightfully justify what happened. For most people, it is unconscionable to think that their government could kill someone that indiscriminately.

But, apparently, that's exactly what happened.

Melon

 

[meegannie]

Sorry about the picture. I would have posted a warning about it, but it wasn't there when I first looked at the site (or if it was, I didn't notice it since I was listening to the report on TV at the same time).

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

It's OK about the picture, don't worry about that we can't hide from the reality

 

[financeguy]

Ok, so he wasn't even running AWAY from the police, he was running for the TRAIN.

Now as I recall it, when the initial story was posted some posters on here decided the guy kind of deserved it cause he was allegedly running from the police, so, hey, he must have been 'up to something', so he kind of, sort of, had it coming, etc....

I wonder if those people have any comments to make now?

 

[VertigoGal]

What a horrible misunderstanding.

 

[martha]

It's a bitch having brown skin nowadays.

 

[verte76]

What a horrible mistake. You're right, martha, it's a pain in the ass to be brown-skinned these days.

 

[trevster2k]

I just hope this whole affair, if this is indeed the true account of what happened, gets the media coverage necessary to ensure that this kind of thing does not happen again and clear the name of Jean Charles de Menezes. Also, the investigation better determine why such misinformation was deemed credible especially the remarks about "bulky winter coat" and "running into the tube". How could the police allow such remarks to be used by the media when they would have known right from the beginning that this was false?

 

[DaveC]

Ok, so he wasn't even running AWAY from the police, he was running for the TRAIN.

Now as I recall it, when the initial story was posted some posters on here decided the guy kind of deserved it cause he was allegedly running from the police, so, hey, he must have been 'up to something', so he kind of, sort of, had it coming, etc....

I wonder if those people have any comments to make now?

I was one of those people. Information that we had previously been given was obviously wrong, and we were working off incorrect information.

It happens.

 

[A_Wanderer]

I was not one of those people; this is not the full investigation and we only have a portion of it, I still reserve judgement until it is complete.

The firing of the shots, the following prior, the conflicting reports and possible misinformation are all very important.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

What makes me furious (beyond the fact that his happened at all, obviously) is that so many lies were told about this. The police justified their decision by claiming he was running away? Not so. He vaulted a ticket barrier? Not so much. He was wearing a bulky coat? Try a light denim jacket.

I think a lot of people in the UK will have lost trust in the police over this incident, not only because the police killed an innocent person, but also because it's clear the police were willing to tell blatant lies in order to 'justify' their actions.

 

[dazzlingamy]

No, i dont care if you're "working off incorrect information" mostly you need to step back and not take in everything you read, but actually stand back and view it with your own eyes with all the information you've been given.

People are way to quick to judge people these days. Sad that it had to end in a human life, which many posters couldnt grasp that fact.

 

[Axver]

I may or may not be one of these people referred to, and my defence is simple: while people were quickly crucifying the police, I was simply pointing out we didn't have all the information, that what we had didn't quite add up, and the police may have had justification for what they did.

This still doesn't completely add up. Why would police shoot a man without giving him a chance to go peacefully? I await the full results of an investigation. Let's not hang anyone yet.

 

[martha]

Why would police shoot a man without giving him a chance to go peacefully?

Because they can.

It happens more than you'd like to think it does.

And usually to people of color.

 

[VertigoGal]

Do you think the police shot this man because they were racist or otherwise itching for a kill?

I think the problem lies in the initial positive identification, which turned out not to be.

 

[martha]

Would they have been so ready to shoot if he had been from Norway?

 

[A_Wanderer]

A brilliant theory except for the minor detail that the man was white? He certainly doesn't look like a Pakistani or Bangledeshi.

Maybe he got a heavy suntan in those years living in the UK.

 

[DaveC]

The guy was white.

And why do people assume that there is total systematic racism rampant in EVERY police force in the world? I've never quite understood that. Sure, there are some highly publicized cases of racist police, but to paint every police officer with the same brush, or to assume that if someone of color is shot that it's only because the police are racist seems rather closed-minded to me.

 

[VertigoGal]

So this guy was white? I mean, I know skintone can vary within ethnic groups...he could've been a dark Brazilian or the suspected terrorist may have been a light Arab. It's hard to believe the police would positively identify a suspect when there was something as obvious as skin color not in common...(and I'm not saying you're wrong, but that it would be hard to believe the police's version of events if that were the case).

 

[joyfulgirl]

 

[DaveC]

As white as me.

 

[Dreadsox]

The guy was white.

And why do people assume that there is total systematic racism rampant in EVERY police force in the world? I've never quite understood that. Sure, there are some highly publicized cases of racist police, but to paint every police officer with the same brush, or to assume that if someone of color is shot that it's only because the police are racist seems rather closed-minded to me.

We agree on something Division bell!!!!!

 

[DaveC]

Well, my stepmom is a Corporal in the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, and is in charge of a 6-person detachment in a small town, and it just pisses me off to no end that people assume that because she's a police officer, she automatically hates everyone who isn't white and is just looking for an excuse to shoot them.

And it scares me that there are some people on this forum that think that way (you know who you are).

 

[joyfulgirl]

Osman

So now we can conclude that the British police involved aren't racist, just blind or stupid.

 

[DaveC]

That kind of mistaken identification is bad policing, either on the end of the pursuing officers (who mistakenly sent the wrong details to the ID officers), or the identification officers made a wrong assessment. It doesn't mean that they were itching for a kill.

 

[VertigoGal]

Maybe it's the sun, but that guy's whiter than me. I don't even understand how they could have positively ID'd him as "Osmann"...I have a very hard time believing that.

 

[joyfulgirl]