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Old 10-26-2007, 09:31 PM   #21
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^^ Not to mention that quite a few jobs require very specific uniforms or dress codes, but I've never heard adults complain.
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Old 10-26-2007, 09:36 PM   #22
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^^ Not to mention that quite a few jobs require very specific uniforms or dress codes, but I've never heard adults complain.
Well I can use this as an argument against dress codes by saying this may be the only time in your life when you truly get to express yourself with what you wear, or how you wear, or your haircut, etc...
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Old 10-26-2007, 09:57 PM   #23
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Well I can use this as an argument against dress codes by saying this may be the only time in your life when you truly get to express yourself with what you wear, or how you wear, or your haircut, etc...
Well, I don't know anyone who is now scarred for life for having to wear a uniform as a kid. If uniforms are such a huge deal, there are other schools that don't use them, just like there are plenty of jobs that don't require them. Personally, anything that saves me even 30 extra seconds getting ready in the morning, I'm all for!!
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Old 10-26-2007, 10:03 PM   #24
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Well, I don't know anyone who is now scarred for life for having to wear a uniform as a kid. If uniforms are such a huge deal, there are other schools that don't use them, just like there are plenty of jobs that don't require them. Personally, anything that saves me even 30 extra seconds getting ready in the morning, I'm all for!!
No one said anyone is scarred for life, but expressing one's identity is a very important part of development, and very productive to learning. Now I understand that uniforms can take away certain distractions, but like many have stated earlier, there will always be something to bully someone over and maybe we should spend more time trying to address the root of the problem rather than covering it up.

And on the other point, yes it does make it easier, but that should never be a reason to mandate it.
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Old 10-26-2007, 10:08 PM   #25
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Honestly, we also just looked better and neater. I didn't have to look at guys who had their pants down to their knees and so on. And they weren't ugly uniforms you would think of, either. Nowadays schools have fleece sweaters, nice sweatshirts, cute cardigans and so on.

Having gone to both schools with and without a mandated uniform, I can tell you that I prefer the latter BY FAR.
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Old 10-26-2007, 10:10 PM   #26
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Hey I never said there was a correlation between uniforms and bullying/not bullying. I'm just saying I don't really believe that they are a bad thing, at ANY stage in life.
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Old 10-26-2007, 10:11 PM   #27
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Fair enough...
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Old 10-26-2007, 10:12 PM   #28
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Are you serious? That's dangerous thinking...
Quite the contrary, actually. I know my uniform was never singled out for being unstylish. It's certainly not dangerous thinking, in any way. If clothes and trends dictate confidence, then we're missing the bigger picture - and THAT is a dangerous thing. Your writing off of Amy's post flies in the face of most Australian schools surviving on uniformity and conformity and us all growing up as adjusted as our US counterparts.
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Old 10-26-2007, 10:21 PM   #29
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Quite the contrary, actually. I know my uniform was never singled out for being unstylish. It's certainly not dangerous thinking, in any way. If clothes and trends dictate confidence, then we're missing the bigger picture - and THAT is a dangerous thing. Your writing off of Amy's post flies in the face of most Australian schools surviving on uniformity and conformity and us all growing up as adjusted as our US counterparts.
I just think preaching conformity, especially at the high school level is dangerous. It reminds me of 'Brick in the Wall'; "we don't need you thought control".

Why would you preach conformity to the future of your country? We're sold this idea all throughout high school that you are the future, you're the next generation, dream, go out and change the world... how can you do that and preach conformity at the same time?
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Old 10-26-2007, 10:27 PM   #30
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Conformity to what? It's just an outfit..... Forcing everyone to take the EXACT same curriculum, write on the EXACT same paper topics, read all the same books, repeat word for word what the teacher is saying, rinse wash repeat....THAT is what I call conformity, not a plain sweater and pair of slacks.
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Old 10-26-2007, 10:28 PM   #31
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While as a general principle I am strongly against brainwashing teenagers by forcing ideas into their heads (e.g., religion) and forcing them to wear uniforms, I can also see the merit of the arguments in favour of uniforms.

If we're going to go enforcing sartorial standards on kids, I think we should probably start by taking a look in the mirror.

The deterioration in sartorial standards amongst adults in recent years is absolutely disgraceful. If you look, for example, at movies from the 1950's or even look at photos from that era, and compare them to today, you will see what I am talking about.

There was a time when adults, particularly and especially the middle class and the upper class, dressed properly and appropriately, and personally I'm all for bringing it back.

I admit, I haven't always lived up to these high standards myself.

I'm thinking of making a New Year's Resolution never to be seen in public without wearing a suit, preferably tailormade. Tailormade suits are not necessarily expensive, by the way. I bought a very decent one recently in Malaysia for only €250 or so.

It's about time someone set some decent standards.

It's about time gracious living came back, and our vulgar common modern mass produced consumerism was set aside.
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Old 10-26-2007, 10:32 PM   #32
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While as a general principle I am strongly against brainwashing teenagers by forcing ideas into their heads (e.g., religion) and forcing them to wear uniforms
Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy

There was a time when adults, particularly and especially the middle class and the upper class, dressed properly and appropriately, and personally I'm all for bringing it back.

Quite a contradiction...

You don't believe in brainwashing ideas or forcing ideas, but yet there's only one "proper" way to dress.
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Old 10-26-2007, 10:37 PM   #33
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We are asked to conform to some extent every single day of our lives. As Lies stated, in school, you have a mandatory curriculum, mandatory tests and classes. Continues on into college. You enter the workplace and there is a certain standard set.

The idea that there is some inherent danger in high school uniforms just doesn't fly, because I've lived it and I don't see any evidence that my character was stifled during those years or negatively impacted me. Like I said, kids are still different, with different personalities and styles and means of expression, and that comes across no matter what you are dressed in. So we may as well look neat and take away the clothing wars and massive spending on inappropriate clothes.
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Old 10-26-2007, 10:39 PM   #34
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Originally posted by Liesje
Conformity to what? It's just an outfit..... Forcing everyone to take the EXACT same curriculum, write on the EXACT same paper topics, read all the same books, repeat word for word what the teacher is saying, rinse wash repeat....THAT is what I call conformity, not a plain sweater and pair of slacks.
Well I agree, although I would argue that although they may have the same subject to write on they can write on that subject anyway they'd like(hopefully) and there's really only one answer to 2 + 2...

I was just debating the subject in general that conformity is needed in HS, but I do agree that dress is a small part of it.

To some people it's not just an outfit. Being able to wear a ONE t-shirt, a band t-shirt, or skirt you made yourself speaks about who you are, some kids need that, some don't.
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Old 10-26-2007, 10:41 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Quite a contradiction...

You don't believe in brainwashing ideas or forcing ideas, but yet there's only one "proper" way to dress.
I knew that you would react to my post, and find some way of snidely misinterpreting it.

I did not say that there was only "proper way" to dress. I said absolutely nothing of the sort.
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Old 10-26-2007, 10:41 PM   #36
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i think you're hearing conformity and you're having vietnam, fight the man flashbacks.

Of course its not going to stop kids getting teased at school, or some people being evil bitches/arseholes, but unfortunately thats LIFE. The fact of the matter is, a uniform gets rid of 'what brand are you wearing' at school at least, its provides a sense of comraderie, because everyone is wearing the same thing, a unification if you will - you always know who goes to what school when you're down the street and seeing another people in the same uniform, its like 'oh heeeey!'
it also cuts down on trying to find something to wear, which is a reason especially in high school when i used to walk up 15 mins before class and loved the fact i could slip on a school dress and head out the door
and also, like antitram said, it looks nicer, thens a sense of pride when you wear your uniform, of course there are the 5% who will buck the system, and thats life to still have arseholes no matter what

but the fact is im not talking about some mind control, drone, communistic society in the future, but school is a bit like that, you have to do what you're told, learn what you're given, there is one overlord on which your life at school hangs if you screw up etc but its just school, not life.

Yay for uniforms!
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Old 10-26-2007, 10:43 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
We are asked to conform to some extent every single day of our lives. As Lies stated, in school, you have a mandatory curriculum, mandatory tests and classes. Continues on into college. You enter the workplace and there is a certain standard set.

The idea that there is some inherent danger in high school uniforms just doesn't fly, because I've lived it and I don't see any evidence that my character was stifled during those years or negatively impacted me. Like I said, kids are still different, with different personalities and styles and means of expression, and that comes across no matter what you are dressed in. So we may as well look neat and take away the clothing wars and massive spending on inappropriate clothes.
While I largely agree with the above, it does depend on the particular uniform. I have seen some reasonably elegant uniforms, and others that are not nice at all.
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Old 10-26-2007, 10:51 PM   #38
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While I largely agree with the above, it does depend on the particular uniform. I have seen some reasonably elegant uniforms, and others that are not nice at all.
Yeah, that's true. I was lucky in that we had a really nice one (our colours were navy/charcoal), and we had a nice mix of clothes we could buy. They were modern, not overly stuffy, but just sort of perfect for what they were being used for.
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Old 10-26-2007, 11:00 PM   #39
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I knew that you would react to my post, and find some way of snidely misinterpreting it.

I did not say that there was only "proper way" to dress. I said absolutely nothing of the sort.
I think you took it too personally. There was nothing snide about my post.

I just think it's an "oh the good ole days" way of thinking that;
Quote:
There was a time when adults, particularly and especially the middle class and the upper class, dressed properly and appropriately, and personally I'm all for bringing it back.
Who is to say what's proper and appropriate?
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Old 10-26-2007, 11:07 PM   #40
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


I just think preaching conformity, especially at the high school level is dangerous. It reminds me of 'Brick in the Wall'; "we don't need you thought control".

Why would you preach conformity to the future of your country? We're sold this idea all throughout high school that you are the future, you're the next generation, dream, go out and change the world... how can you do that and preach conformity at the same time?
It's not about thought control. It's a visual leveller of students. Stripping dressing freedoms in students is not removing a sense of identity or stiffling the chance for one to develop. It's not creating a society of potential communists. It really is just a dress code. I think it's an interesting observation that can be made in here, too, that it is people from the countries without dress codes or uniforms who object mostly to the concept of them. It seems as though you (all) perceive a list of potential problems in the individuals and the society these kids become an active part of, which doesn't actually exist. Teaching to go forth and do great things, to stand out and be counted, doesn't contradict the concept of conformity as much as you'd think, either. Remember, a uniform is a superficial covering. It's put in place to be the all-essential leveller. "All students are equal and will not be seperated by social class or race". Underneath their clothes are individuals who are still taught to leave school and do their best. No one at my school could tell by my uniform that my family had no car, nor a telephone in the house until I was about 16. No one could pick on me because I usually only owned about 2 pairs of jeans and an assortment of t-shirts. Clothes were never my thing, and they aren't now, as I sit here in tracksuit pants typing away to you all. I never went through school thinking I had to conform based on what I wore. The uniforms just made us dress the same and allow us to concentrate on learning and exceeding in our particular skill areas.
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