Michael Moore's "Good Friday/Passover/Easter, 2002

[KevM]

[quote]Originally posted by 80sU2isBest:

I would say it would be akin to a millionaire visiting a village in Ethiopia with starving children all around, and complaining that he's hungry because they didn't serve lunch on the plane ride over.

Humm. That sounds ironic to me.

[80sU2isBest]

Originally posted by KevM:
Humm. That sounds ironic to me.

Actually, that isnt irony. Irony is when you say one thing, but you mean exactly the opposite. But it is a very ridiculous and insulting thing for that millionaire to be doing, in the same way that Michael Moore equating his troubles with Christ's suffering is ridiculous and insulting.

[This message has been edited by 80sU2isBest (edited 04-03-2002).]

[Danospano]

I hardly have the energy to write this post. I have a paper due tomorrow and I got about 2 hours of sleep last night. Somehow, I'm still compelled to respond.

80sU2isBest has stated his opinion on Moore. I haven't heard him say one truly, good word about the man's thoughts, which is very odd by itself. I'm sure that they have at least SOME things is common. Nevertheless, he's beating a dead horse. I understand that you don't agree with Moore, so it gets a little repeatitive whenever you sound-off on every letter I post. I'm not telling you to stop responsed. I'm wishing you would stop. Not because I believe in censorship, but because every freakin' person in this chatroom knows how you feel. Whatever, do what you want to.

I don't want to argue about religion, because that one can never be won.

I'm tired of the double standard seen between what is humourous, but I know that humour is in the eye of the beholder. I happen to think that Pauly Shore is the complete opposite of funny, while someone else obviously does or should I say, did. This Moore letter makes the reader think about the way religious leadership spins historic events to fit their own personal agenda, and being raised Christian, and then reaching the age of reason, I can see humour in every religion. Be it Christianity or whatever.

People take themselve too seriously, and 80sU2isBest DOES symbolize the political outlook of U2 in the 1980's: serious. But remember that with age comes wisdom, much like the U2 of the 1990's and the present. I don't know how old you are, 80sU2, but I'm only 22 and I've already discovered that life and everything around it is not to be taken seriously. That's based on reading Chomsky, Hemingway, Plato, The Bible, Michael Moore, countless other authors, and most of all, YOUR POSTS.

[U2Bama]

but every freakin' person in this chatroom (sic*) knows how Moore feels too.

*message board.

[Danospano]

True. But......

Shut up, U2 Bama

LOL

[80sU2isBest]

Originally posted by U2Bama:
but every freakin' person in this chatroom (sic*) knows how Moore feels too.
*message board.

Exactly right, Bama, and thanks for that grand re-entrance into my cyberlife!
Dano, we do indeed all know how Moore feels about everything by now. But you just keep posting it, don't you? Even though you know how I feel, and you know that he gets me so riled up. Listen, surely by now you know how important faith is to me. You've seen me defend my faith time after time. Did you really think I wouldn't defend it against this insulting column written by Moore?
And about humor; I think that life is 95% serious. There are big issues in this life - faith, hope, love, death, etc. But somethings I do treat humorously. Not this column. In my opinion, it wasn't intended to be funny and it's not funny.
By the way, I'm 34. I'm glad you've read so many books about life. But I have faced many things in my life that have ingrained into me how serious life is. I have had to face the deaths of 3 grandparents, my father, my brother and my son. You never know how long your loved ones will have life, so you damn well better take care of things while they're here to benefit from it.


[This message has been edited by 80sU2isBest (edited 04-04-2002).]

[new orleans]

Moore you are a bigger ass than I thought. Do yourself a favor and don't think. All you do is whine. A true liberal.

[Danospano]

All I'm saying is that nobody should let life get them down. Religion and everyone's personal beliefs legitimize life. They give people a reason to get up in the morning. Without faith in God, most people would take life less seriously. I happen to "think" that God has a pretty damn good sense of humor. I also think he could care less what happens to each and every human being, let alone mammals in general.
This is MY OPINION, and I don't care if you agree or not, I'm just stating it.
My outlook on life is based on logic, scientific proof, and occassionally I flirt with the faith. I see life as a one-night stand, where we should have fun while we're here. Before all of us know, we'll be breathing our last breathe. We'll look back on our lives and wonder, "Did I have fun, or did I take matters too seriously?" I for one, what to look back and realize that I live life to the highest and tried many different ventures. I will be glad I stopped to smell the roses, practiced a chrisian faith for 10 years of my life, explore the issue of religion and how it interacts with the "big picture", and so forth.
I know many people whom I make it a point NOT to talk about religion, because they've been hypotized to the point of no return. They feel that everything they're told by the church is true. At least the things they WANT to believe. It's funny how a lot of Christians practice pre-martial sex (even peity members are being caught these days), drink alcohol, kill their fellow man, destroy the environment that God gave us, and think going to church gives them a clean slate.

Okay, I'm off the point of my rant....

Basically, I think that are times when people should take things seriously. We have laws and regulations that keep people from acting like looney-tunes in my front yard, okay? We have schools were people are forced to learn the skills that will make them productive in society. But humour is essential to live a happy life. I mean, how many people know someone who's always straightfaced and serious? EVERYONE, right? Well, those are the people that ruin life for the rest of us. They make us feel guilty for everything, which really pisses me off.

(I think this is the longest, most directionless post I've ever written, but you must realize that I am now operating on less than 8 hrs of sleep in the last 60 hrs)

GOD! Why must we be serious 95% of the time? That's insane. I can honestly say that if I was straightlaced, serious 95% of the time, and everyone else was as well, we'd have constant fighting between EVERYONE. We'd be drones that go to work, go home, sit in silence (worrying about the future), and never getting a good night's sleep, because we'd be dreaming about how serious life is.

LIGHTEN UP! Please, lighten up. It feels great to take life with a grain of salt. If someone close to you dies, its okay to cry or mourn. But realize that everything dies and focusing on the worst in life and toiling in depressing moments, is not a way to live a life. Unless your into that sort of thing. I think one of my friends is into that...you know, self-mutilation. (oh, charlie, will you ever learn ).

[80sU2isBest]

Originally posted by Danospano:
I also think he could care less what happens to each and every human being, let alone mammals in general.

then you would be wrong. God loves every being, especially humans, that lives on this earth. He takes an active interest in the thinga that happens in our lives.

Dano wrote:
My outlook on life is based on logic, scientific proof, and occassionally I flirt with the faith. I see life as a one-night stand, where we should have fun while we're here. Before all of us know, we'll be breathing our last breathe. We'll look back on our lives and wonder, "Did I have fun, or did I take matters too seriously?" I for one, what to look back and realize that I live life to the highest and tried many different ventures. I will be glad I stopped to smell the roses, practiced a chrisian faith for 10 years of my life, explore the issue of religion and how it interacts with the "big picture", and so forth.

80sU2isBest:
You accuse me of taking life too seriously; If you see life as a one night stand, then you don't take life seriously enough. Look around you, Dano, there are wars all over the place - people are being murdered, people are looking for answers. And you call this a "one night stand"? When I look back on my life, I don't care if I can say yes to "Did I have fun? Did I take life too seriously?" What I want to know is that I can answer yes to "Did I tell people the truth of the Gospel?" and "Did I love the Lord?" and "Did I love people the way I would be loved?" That's how I measure success. I want to make a difference in this life, and thinking of life as a "one night stand" doesn't cut it.

Dano wrote:
It's funny how a lot of Christians practice pre-martial sex (even peity members are being caught these days), drink alcohol, kill their fellow man, destroy the environment that God gave us, and think going to church gives them a clean slate.

80s writes:
First, there is no Biblical rule against drinking alcohol. The Bible simply says "Don't get drunk". Secondly, you'll never catch ME saying that going to church gives you a clean slate. If you know anything at all about my beliefs, you'll know that I am a "grace" man. I am saved only by God's grace, not by anything I have done.

Dano wrote:
But humour is essential to live a happy life. I mean, how many people know someone who's always straightfaced and serious? EVERYONE, right? Well, those are the people that ruin life for the rest of us. They make us feel guilty for everything, which really pisses me off.

80s wrote:
Now, sir, I will tell you again - I am not an unfunny person. Ask my friends, and tehy will tell you that I have quite a sense of humor. You are judging my sense of humor on how I react to Michael Moore. That's ridiculous. He's not freaking funny! How can you judge a peron's sense of humor on the fact that they don't find an unfunny man funny? What do I find funny? The comedian George Wallace - HE's funny. The Bernie Mac show - that's a riot! The George Lopez Show - ha ha ha! Old shows especially, like "Leave It To Beaver", "Andy Griffith" and "I Love Lucy" - those are things I find funny! Insulting columns by a bitter writer - I don't find that funny.

Dano wrote:
GOD! Why must we be serious 95% of the time? That's insane. I can honestly say that if I was straightlaced, serious 95% of the time, and everyone else was as well, we'd have constant fighting between EVERYONE. We'd be drones that go to work, go home, sit in silence (worrying about the future), and never getting a good night's sleep, because we'd be dreaming about how serious life is.

80s writes:
Ok, dano, you're starting to upset me a little bit here. First, I did not say I was serious 95% of the time. I said life is 95% serious. There is a difference. And why do you think badly of "seriousness" anyway? Do you think "seriousness" means walking around with a frown all the time? No, that's not what it means! Some people who are too serious do that, but seriousness to me is being fully aware that life is no cosmic mistake, and doing my best in my life's mission. I am serious about life. But that doesn't mean I don't smile, or cut jokes. Again, if you knew me, you would know that. I am known for my opyimism around my family and friends. You've got a wrong definition of seriousness, Dano.

Dano writes:
LIGHTEN UP! Please, lighten up. It feels great to take life with a grain of salt. If someone close to you dies, its okay to cry or mourn. But realize that everything dies and focusing on the worst in life and toiling in depressing moments, is not a way to live a life. Unless your into that sort of thing. I think one of my friends is into that...you know, self-mutilation. (oh, charlie, will you ever learn ).

80s writes:
Finally, don't you DARE to presume to tell me how to handle grief. Have you ever lost a brother and son within a year of each other, only to lose your father 3 years later? If not, you can't speak of that at all. It is devastating.

If I wanted to spend my life "focusing on the worst in life and toiling in depressing moments", that's none of your business. It just so happens that's NOT how I handled those deaths. I did indeed grieve, but I have a great God in Heaven who has comforted and strengthened me through it all. What those experiences taught me was (1)To appreciate and love people while they're alive and (2)Tell people God loves them.

Despite what you might think (without even knowing me, I will add), I am not some serious, sourpuss old grouch. But I will not NOW or EVER pretend I see humor in an article that insults my faith or my God.

[joyfulgirl]

80s, I really do understand that you are a man of deep faith and convictions and you seem to strive hard to really walk your talk. I appreciate that in anybody. I, too, have deep faith--different from yours, but no less profound for me--and try as I might, I cannot imagine being this offended if someone who is known for being more or less a political satirist and comedian (as well as a real activist), made similar comments about that which I hold sacred. I really don't think I'd be offended--but then again, I'm not easily offended in general. Why get so worked up over someone you think is a jerk? Just consider the source and let it go.

I like Moore, but this particular article I actually thought was kind of dumb (but don't stop posting them, Dano!). It's just one slob's viewpoint, 80s. The God I believe in has a pretty wild sense of humor and I doubt if God or Jesus are sweatin' too much over this one. You shouldn't either. I mean, you can if you want, but I honestly think you're making a big deal over a lot of nothing. Yes, he took a little jab at Jesus--so what? Shrug it off. You know what you believe--that's all that matters.

[bonoman]

80's walk away. Dont get yourself worked up over something so petty. He doesnt deserve an answer. He posted this to make you reply he succeeded, he wanted you to reply angrily he succeded, he is making you look mad.

I know your better then this and many others do. just walk away from this shit!

------------------
Running to Stand Still-"you gotta cry without weeping, talk without speaking, scream without raising your voice."

"we're not burning out we're burning up...we're the loudest folk band in the world!"-Bono

[U2Bama]

Originally posted by Danospano:
It's funny how a lot of Christians ...drink alcohol...and think going to church gives them a clean slate.

Seriously, where does it say "Thou Shalt Not Drink Michelob Light?" Heck, I know Christian ministers who drink, but don't abuse, alcohol, just as Christ did. In fact, I heard a "daily thought" segment on a local talk radio station that happens to be Christian-owned, and it was an evangelical minister saying that Christ actually wants us to enjoy life on Earth, as He did, enjoying occasional feasts, drinking with friends, etc., and we should remember that it was Paul who spoke more of the "worldly" sins.

Having said that, I may go pop open a cold one.

~U2Alabama

[Danospano]

I may have a few facts wrong, specifically the alcohol statement, but those of you that are trying to discredit my general statement on religion based on that one premise are avoiding the main point.

Here's my final word on this thread: evidently there a some people in this forum that hold dramatically different opinions on religion that I do. That's fine. My problem with those people is that they think they're 100% right when speaking on the issue of faith. As if they actually knew why humanity exists in the first place! It's that arrogance that makes me want to argue and put them in their place. It's that arrogance that makes me ask, "where do they get off thinking that Christianity is the only answer to life's questions?"

I'll keep posting Moore's diary, so don't worry about that. I've received lots of compliments for doing so. Anyone who disagrees is welcome, in my opinion, to argue Moore's stance on issues.

and now....go with god. (Notice I didn't capitalize 'god'?

[Not George Lucas]

Michael Moore is a big idiot who needs to be kissed in the forehead with a cement block.

------------------

Truth is offensive.
I'm morally opposed to rape, and I would never rape anyone, but I think, ultimately, it's up to the rapist and no one else.

[popsadie]

I feel a bit conflicted on this issue. Actually, I loved "Roger and Me" and have enjoyed reading Moore's articles in the past. This one I felt did go too far...but it is only the experience of the one writing it..it is the way MOORE sees Jesus and the crucifixion. Its not written as an objective truth, but rather as a subjective association. While I wish in my heart that Moore didn't see Christianity as flippantly as he does...it doesn't take away from him a willingness to question his world and write articles that encourage us to question it.
So, while I disagree with the way Michael views Christian tradition, much of what he writes interests me..and yeah..I plan on seeing him speak tonight at my campus.

[80sU2isBest]

Originally posted by popsadie:
I feel a bit conflicted on this issue. Actually, I loved "Roger and Me" and have enjoyed reading Moore's articles in the past. This one I felt did go too far...but it is only the experience of the one writing it..it is the way MOORE sees Jesus and the crucifixion. Its not written as an objective truth, but rather as a subjective association. While I wish in my heart that Moore didn't see Christianity as flippantly as he does...it doesn't take away from him a willingness to question his world and write articles that encourage us to question it.
So, while I disagree with the way Michael views Christian tradition, much of what he writes interests me..and yeah..I plan on seeing him speak tonight at my campus.

Heckle him in my name, please.
Before you go frothing at the mouth, Danospano, I'm kidding.

[Anthony]

I thought it was rather amusing, actually. It was quite funny, though I have a very odd sense of humour - I found the last half hour of TITANIC funny, but you gotta admit, I was onto something.

However, as funny as the article may have been, I disagree heartily with what you said about 80s, Danospano; he isn't humourless, and he isn't the broad generalisation you made him to be, nobody is. I can see why some people would find it offensive, but as long as they don't become hell-bent on censoring it or become activists against it, I don't really mind.

In accordance with your own theory of seeing life as a one night stand, (I too, think of life as a one night stand, but my one night stand is usually followed by a really bad headache in the morning) you shouldn't really have drilled into 80s as you did, especially when you claim that you don't give a damn about what he thinks. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that you did mind. Inevitably, if you put Moore's article out for everyone to see, you will invariably get certain Conservatives reading it and disliking it.

I found it funny, though.

Ant.

[gvox]

Wow! I came over here because someone at Wire said I might like the way I can pick and choose topics to train my lasers on...

I want to ask: Can I be Christian, liberal, have a sense of humor and not find that Moore piece particularly funny all at once? Is that possible?

OK, 80s, Ive been graced with reading alot of your posts over the last hour and I have to say that really, its not worth it. You seem to get quite worked up when you cant convert others to your way of thinking. Ive been down that path and its just a waste of time, and not worth it. There are MILLIONS of people out there that think that the whole story is a crock of shit (IM NOT ONE OF THEM) and you will never convince them by beating them into submission with your Bible. As Bono sings 'let it go!'!

Having said that, when we have persons of a religious faith who are regulars on a board, is it in good taste or loving to post an article that we definately know will offend alot of people? There are idiots out there in alternative press websites writing utter garbage, some of which Im sure someone finds funny somewhere, about black people, Muslims, Hindus etc...do we post them up here, or is it in bad taste to do so? Sure, we have freedom of speech, but with freedom begins responsibility.

I read the piece, and Im Christian. In the first sentence, I laughed. However, after the first sentence it became tiredly repetitive. Notably, there were at least 10 more paragraphs where there was little if no reference to his original rant..This is honestly the first Ive read of this guy, but his humor strikes me as too...I dont know...well, not refined anyways. I always admired the humorist that can jab you or someone without even realizing it on the first read, that sort of dry subtle wit that makes you pause and laugh. His is just crude, something like those teen-sex-comedy movies where the rudeness just doesn't end, so you just laugh at how utterly rude it is. Not exactly the most intelligent form of humor, but whatever turns your crank, I suppose.

Anyways, its kind of funny to get all worked up about a holiday that doesn't even fall on the right dates Jesus died anyways, one that somewhere along the way got mixed up with all the paganisms of the Roman's fertility festivals...I don't recall the Easter bunny making a cameo in the Bible, but then again Im getting irreverant too so Id better can it...


------------------
"...well the God I believe in isn't short of cash, mister!"
BTBS, Rattle and Hum

[This message has been edited by gabrielvox (edited 04-15-2002).]

[popsadie]

I asked Moore about this topic during the question and answer segment...he said he didn't mean it to be as offensive as some of you guys see it and that it was an example of Irish Catholic humour. Perhaps it was a poor example...but an example none the less. Personally..I loved the talk, and the majority of the ideas he expressed tonight I believe I could stand behind. He seemed a bit taken back when I mentioned how it had offended some..and went on for about 10 minutes talking about Christianity...and how the conservatives have hijacked it..He quoted some scripture about how it is easier for a camel to enter the eye of needle than a rich man to enter heaven and talked about Jesus's parable of the sheep and goats. Anyway...I really enjoyed the speech and he was really cool and approachable during the book signing...signing out...

Megan

[brettig]

Originally posted by popsadie:
He quoted some scripture about how it is easier for a camel to enter the eye of needle than a rich man to enter heaven and talked about Jesus's parable of the sheep and goats

gday popsadie!

I found it fascinating to read Bono's take on that scripture, and his thinking that it referred to a certain gate in Jerusalem rather than a literal Needle's eye.