Michael Moore - brilliant and uplifting

[anitram]

Originally posted by Irvine511
i suppose that's an unanswerable question, but the capitalistic amongst us would point to that as a direct result of the free market. that government policies in the form of price controls imposed by national health-care systems harm the private sector. if the profits from the American market go down, then there will be less $$$ available for drug research.

But why do you accept this as a given? What about raising taxes and regulating pharmaceuticals so that Pharma doesn't lose significant profits and yet you, the consumer benefits from lower prices? Of course this is possible, but you'd have to pay higher tax rates like the rest of the world too. Sometimes you really can't have it all.

And it's questionable whether there would be less "$$$ for research" or whether the profit margins would simply decrease. Does a CEO need a $5 million bonus or can he do with $250K? Those numbers would have to be crunched too.

[Irvine511]

Originally posted by anitram


But why do you accept this as a given? What about raising taxes and regulating pharmaceuticals so that Pharma doesn't lose significant profits and yet you, the consumer benefits from lower prices? Of course this is possible, but you'd have to pay higher tax rates like the rest of the world too. Sometimes you really can't have it all.

And it's questionable whether there would be less "$$$ for research" or whether the profit margins would simply decrease. Does a CEO need a $5 million bonus or can he do with $250K? Those numbers would have to be crunched too.

it's less whether or not i accept it as a given, and more whether or not it is accepted as a given. it seems that is where this perception comes from, and people would point to the difference between American or American-based pharmaceuticals and their rates of innovations in comparison to their European and Japanese counterparts. whether or not this is accurate or fair is certainly up for debate, but i can tell you that's what would be pointed out by the free marketers.

you'll get no argument from me about profit margins and CEO pay, especially when it comes to something like medicine. perhaps someone with a better economic background than i can explain just how big a motivator a $5m bonus is compared to a $250K bonus. it's a huge difference to that individual CEO, but would that play itself out in overall company performance?

[MrsSpringsteen]

I'm going to see it tonight-it got 3 1/2 out of four stars in my local paper. I didn't read the reviews, I never do before I see a movie.

He is on Larry King tonight

[MrsSpringsteen]

Well that's interesting


The Associated Press
Updated: 6:01 p.m. ET June 28, 2007

LOS ANGELES - Michael Moore looked to his friend Borat to help muster the nerve to sail into Guantanamo Bay.

Moore met “Borat” creator Sasha Baron Cohen at last fall’s Toronto International Film Festival. Cohen was there to screen “Borat: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan,” which went on to become a $100 million hit, while Moore showed off footage shot for his health-care documentary, “Sicko,” which was to open nationwide Friday.

Cohen told Moore he had drawn inspiration from the filmmaker’s documentaries, in which Moore doggedly pursues corporate and political bosses and puts himself into uncomfortable situations.

Moore said Cohen thanked him for helping to provide the courage for his own daring adventures on “Borat,” in which Cohen’s Kazakh alter-ego wrestles naked with his portly producer and draws the ire of a rodeo crowd for butchering the national anthem.

“I said to him, ‘But yeah, I’ve never done anything like wrestle naked with another guy on the floor of an insurance-brokers or mortgage-brokers convention,” Moore told The Associated Press. “So after I saw ‘Borat,’ if he says I was an inspiration for those things, I now have to up the ante for him. So we sailed into the mined waters of Guantanamo Bay with sick 9/11 workers and a bullhorn.”

The scene in “Sicko” features Moore calling to guards at the U.S. prison in Guantanamo, Cuba, which houses terror suspects captured in military operations.

After seeing news reports about quality medical treatment the prison provided detainees, Moore went there to seek similar care for ailing Sept. 11 rescue workers who were having trouble getting health coverage in the United States.

Moore got no response from Guantanamo, so he took the workers to Cuba, where they received treatment. The U.S. Treasury Department began an investigation in May on whether Moore’s trip violated the trade embargo prohibiting travel to Cuba.

What was Moore thinking as he stood on the boat, calling through a bullhorn outside Guantanamo?

“Two thoughts. I’ve never seen anybody sail a boat into Guantanamo Bay in a movie or on TV. I’ve never seen that,” Moore said. “And the second thought: What the hell am I doing? There’s mines. This whole bay is mined, I think, by the Cubans and the Americans on each other’s sides. There’s guard towers, there’s soldiers with guns. How crazy is this?”

[joyfulgirl]

Analysis: 'Sicko' numbers mostly accurate; more context needed

By A. Chris Gajilan
CNN


(CNN) -- Michael Moore's "Sicko," which opened nationwide Friday, is filled with horror stories of people who are deprived of medical service because they can't afford it or haven't been able to navigate the murky waters of managed care in the United States.

It compares American health care with the universal coverage systems in Canada, France, the United Kingdom and Cuba.

Moore covers a lot of ground. Our team investigated some of the claims put forth in his film. We found that his numbers were mostly right, but his arguments could use a little more context. As we dug deep to uncover the numbers, we found surprisingly few inaccuracies in the film. In fact, most pundits or health-care experts we spoke to spent more time on errors of omission rather than disputing the actual claims in the film.

Whether it's dollars spent, group coverage or Medicaid income cutoffs, health care goes hand in hand with numbers. Moore opens his film by giving these statistics, "Fifty million uninsured Americans ... 18,000 people die because they are uninsured." (Review: "Sicko" a tonic despite flaws)

For the most part, that's true. The latest numbers from the Centers for Disease Control and Preventionexternal link say 46.3 million, or about 16 percent of Americans, were uninsured in 2006. For the past five years, the overall count has fluctuated between 41 million and 44 million people. According to the Institute of Medicineexternal link, 18,000 people do die each year mainly because they are less likely to receive screening and preventive care for chronic diseases.

Moore says that the U.S. spends more of its gross domestic product on health care than any other country.

Again, that's true. The United States spends more than 15 percent of its GDP on health care -- no other nation even comes close to that number. France spends about 11 percent, and Canadians spend 10 percent.

Like Moore, we also found that more money does not equal better care. Both the French and Canadian systems rank in the Top 10 of the world's best health-care systems, according to the World Health Organizationexternal link. The United States comes in at No. 37. The rankings are based on general health of the population, access, patient satisfaction and how the care's paid for.

So, if Americans are paying so much and they're not getting as good or as much care, where is all the money going? "Overhead for most private health insurance plans range between 10 percent to 30 percent," says health-care analyst Paul Keckley. Overhead includes profit and administrative costs.

"Compare that to Medicare, which only has an overhead rate of 1 percent. Medicare is an extremely efficient health-care delivery system," says Mark Meaney, a health-care ethicist for the National Institute for Patient Rightsexternal link.

Moore spends about half his film detailing the wonders and the benefits of the government-funded universal health-care systems in Canada, France, Cuba and the United Kingdom. He shows calm, content people in waiting rooms and people getting care in hospitals hassle free. People laugh and smile as he asks about billing departments and cost of stay.

Not surprisingly, it's not that simple. In most other countries, there are quotas and planned waiting times. Everyone does have access to basic levels of care. That care plan is formulated by teams of government physicians and officials who determine what's to be included in the universal basic coverage and how a specific condition is treated. If you want treatment outside of that standard plan, then you have to pay for it yourself.

"In most developed health systems in the world, 15 percent to 20 percent of the population buys medical services outside of the system of care run by the government. They do it through supplemental insurance, or they buy services out of pocket," Keckley says.

The people who pay more tend to be in the upper income or have special, more complicated conditions.

Moore focuses on the private insurance companies and makes no mention of the U.S. government-funded health-care systems such as Medicare, Medicaid, the State Children's Health Insurance Program and the Veterans Affairs health-care systems. About 50 percent of all health-care dollars spent in the United States flows through these government systems.

"Sicko" also ignores a handful of good things about the American system. Believe it or not, the United States does rank highest in the patient satisfaction category. Americans do have shorter wait times than everyone but Germans when it comes to nonemergency elective surgery such as hip replacements, cataract removal or knee repair.

That's no surprise given the number of U.S. specialists. In U.S. medical schools, students training to become primary-care physicians have dwindled to 10 percent. The overwhelming majority choose far more profitable specialties in the medical field. In other countries, more than one out of three aspiring doctors chooses primary care in part because there's less of an income gap with specialists. In those nations, becoming a specialist means making 30 percent more than a primary-care physician. In the United States, the gap is around 300 percent, according to Keckley.

As Americans continue to spend $2 trillion a year on health care, everyone agrees on one point: Things need to change, and it will take more than a movie to figure out how to get there.

A. Chris Gajilan is a senior producer with CNN Medical News. Intern Emily Breidbart contributed to this report.

[MrsSpringsteen]

Of course he can afford his own insurance, but at least it's a moral stand. And at least he's a physician who gives a damn. But I guess he's for "affordable" health care and not free health care.

Why I Declined My Congressional Health Coverage

Posted June 29, 2007 | 11:20 AM (EST)
Steve Kagen, U.S. Congress



As a physician and medical scientist, I know something about Band-Aids. You have to clean the wound first if you really want it to heal. A little strip of adhesive glue and gauze is not going to get the job done.

As a Congressman, I have learned that Band-Aids are what politicians are using to "fix" our nation's broken health care delivery system. But you don't have to be a doctor or a Congressman to understand that Band-Aids can't fix a fracture.

That's why I declined to accept the health care insurance offer from Congress. Plainly put, I will not accept health insurance coverage until everyone I represent in Wisconsin and across America is given the same opportunity. After all, I did not run for this office to get health care benefits.

I ran to change Washington and to guarantee access to affordable care for every citizen, everywhere in these United States.

Since voters sent me to Capitol Hill last November, I've been working hard to leverage support for a new approach. My purpose is not to destroy profit centers in medicine, as some insurance industry allies will falsely argue, but to allow everyone to benefit from the efficient delivery of affordable care in a transparent and competitive marketplace.

Here's how.

* Open Disclosure of all health care-related prices
* Unitary Pricing so everyone gets the same discount and pays the same price for the same product or service
* Form a Single Insurance Risk Pool to leverage down insurance prices for all citizens
* Deductibles set at three percent of a household's taxable federal income, and
* A Renewed Commitment to Cover all uninsured children and working parents.

I'm looking forward to seeing Sicko soon, and I hope it will serve as the kind of wake-up call for Washington on the need for serious health-care reform that Al Gore's An Inconvenient Truth has been on the urgent issue of global warming.

Everyone knows our health care system is broken. And there's no longer any mystery about why. Rising health care costs have outpaced wages. Solid middle-class families are being squeezed. How can people afford to purchase insurance policies when the average premiums are about $12,000 a year for a family of four?

People simply don't have the money.

Here's my bottom line: No citizen -- rich or poor, young or old -- should be denied access to affordable health care. Period. And no business should be be pushed to the brink of bankruptcy simply because it cares for its employees.

After more than 25 years helping to heal the wounds of families in my District, I understand our health care crisis is beyond a Band-Aid remedy. I'm pro-cure, and so are American families. Washington should be, too.

And until it is, I will decline my Congressional health coverage.

[MrsSpringsteen]

Check this out from his web site-contributions from the health industry to the Presidential candidates, January 1st to March 31st, 2007. The politicians are never going to change it on their own because so many of them are in bed with these people. We will change it when we demand it-but do we even care?

http://www.michaelmoore.com/sicko/si...le/candidates/

[joyfulgirl]

Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
Check this out from his web site-contributions from the health industry to the Presidential candidates, January 1st to March 31st, 2007. The politicians are never going to change it on their own because so many of them are in bed with these people. We will change it when we demand it-but do we even care?

http://www.michaelmoore.com/sicko/si...le/candidates/

Hillary Clinton

She's trying real hard to not earn my vote.

[MrsSpringsteen]

How many people will vote on health care though? As long as their butts are covered (they think, the movie discusses how that's not always the case) how much do they care about that? Obama got a hefty sum too-they all do. I guess they like Hillary since she got out of that pesky universal health care business.

[joyfulgirl]

Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
How many people will vote on health care though? As long as their butts are covered (they think, the movie discusses how that's not always the case) how much do they care about that? Obama got a hefty sum too-they all do. I guess they like Hillary since she got out of that pesky universal health care business.

I don't vote on one issue, but this one's pretty important, with a recent hellish experience with my insurance company fresh in mind. Hillary just makes me ill most of the time in general. She went from a lame attempt to overhaul the health care system to crawling into bed with them. Obviously I'm going to vote against the Republican candidate but occasionally I need to vent about Hillary, hoping she's not the candidate.

[MrsSpringsteen]

^Oh no I definitely agree about not voting on one issue, but that and Iraq are the most important for me after seeing this movie. And it points out that Hillary did just what you said. I just can't say enough about it-and honestly I cried more at this movie than I did at any other movie I've gone to see this year. When you see these real life stories it really hits home and it isn't just abstract statistics anymore. I urge everyone to go see this asap, it will make you want to start a revolution-well it made me want to. The theater was packed and people clapped at the end. There is humor in it as well but I just felt weird laughing when the overall message is so depressing. Very well done.

On Anderson Cooper last night they did a piece with Dr. Gupta about the accuracy of the movie, I'm sure the transcript is available soon if not already.

I guess the box office yesterday was excellent, I think it says on his web site that it's only playing on 400 something screens. I'd have to check that again, my memory could be wrong.

[joyfulgirl]

I saw Michael Moore on Larry King last night and he was great. Really great, articulate, kind, reasonable, handled tough questions excellently. Hope to see the film this weekend.

[MaxFisher]

Saw the film last night...it's manipulative, anecdotal, and hardly addresses any of the problems with nationalized health care.

It's also a superb piece of filmmaking. Scathingly funny and thought provoking.

4 out of 5 stars

[shart1780]

Sounds like typical Moore. I most likely won't be seeing it.

It really gets on my nerves when people show respect for this guy. Yes, he's articulate, he's talented, he's a good film maker and all that jazz, but he INTENTIONALLY tries to sway the public's opinion using deception. How is that respectable? I agree with him on the main points of the film, but I can still acknowledge that he's an ass.

[deep]

Originally posted by shart1780
Sounds like typical Moore. I most likely won't be seeing it.

It really gets on my nerves when people show respect for this guy. Yes, he's articulate, he's talented, he's a good film maker and all that jazz, but he INTENTIONALLY tries to sway the public's opinion using deception. How is that respectable? I agree with him on the main points of the film, but I can still acknowledge that he's an ass.

sicko.fact.check

[Diane L]

I saw SICKO this evening. I deliberately saw it opening weekend to help the box office take. It is my way of voting with my pocketbook.

Michael Moore is a great American and a true patriot.

America is broken, and it needs to be fixed.

[shart1780]

Good grief please, please tell me you're joking. The man who made Bowling for Columbine and Fahrenheit 9/11 is a great person? Are you fricking kidding me? What the heck kind of drugs are you on? Whether this film is more accurate or not, the majority of his work was meant to decieve. Is that really a good thing in your eyes?

He's a LIAR. How can you honestly tell me he's a great American when he intentionally decieves people?

Good God some of you absolutely amaze me.

[Lila64]

Originally posted by joyfulgirl
I saw Michael Moore on Larry King last night and he was great. Really great, articulate, kind, reasonable, handled tough questions excellently. Hope to see the film this weekend.

I agree - caught the replay of Larry King this evening

I hope to see the film soon as well. If you can't look at America and see there is a healthcare crisis, then I don't know what to tell you.

as for shart's comment

as always, backs out of FYM quickly!

[shart1780]

Could someone tell me why they find this liar to be a respectable guy? It really does upset me to see that Moore is respected by some. I'd like to know how some of you are willing to completely overlook the fact that he's a liar and claim he's a great guy.

[Diane L]

Originally posted by shart1780
Could someone tell me why they find this liar to be a respectable guy? It really does upset me to see that Moore is respected by some. I'd like to know how some of you are willing to completely overlook the fact that he's a liar and claim he's a great guy.

I believe he loves this country and wants to see it made better. If you saw the movie, and saw the quality of life in the UK, Canada and France as depicted therein, you would want to move tomorrow.

The benefits of the Cuban health system is a harder sell for me. Yes, they have top-notch medical care, but any society in which people are encouraged to spy on each other is not a good place, IMHO. One of my favorite people in the world fled Castro's Cuba in the '60's, and brought back photos of the crumbling infrastructure after a visit, apartments with walls missing and the like. SICKO made me think about what I consider more important...5 cent medication and being afraid of speaking your mind, or expensive medication and the ability to say that you dislike the current Administration. In Europe and Canada, they don't have to make this choice.

Quite frankly, it makes me giggle how Michael Moore riles up the Right, like the prospect of a Hillary Clinton presidency does. And if the choice is agreeing more with that fat loudmouthed filmmaker or a certain skinny blonde harridan I can think of...I'll take the fat guy.

I tend to stay away from FYM, because I'd rather discuss politics among like-minded people, such as the folks at DailyKos. But every once in a while I like to wind up the conservatives among us.

"What heck kind of drugs are you on?" Hey...I'm high in life!!!!!