MERGED: Unconstitutional!!! and Potential "Patriot Act" Expansion - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-08-2003, 05:13 PM   #1
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,782
Local Time: 03:59 AM
Normal Potential "Patriot Act" Expansion

Expansion of Patriot Act Criticized
Sat Feb 8, 6:33 AM ET

By CURT ANDERSON, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - The Justice Department is preparing to expand the 2001 Patriot Act to increase surveillance within the United States while restricting access to information and limiting judicial review, a nonprofit government watchdog group asserted Friday.

The Center for Public Integrity said it obtained a copy of the draft legislation from a government source. The document, labeled "confidential," was posted Friday on the organization's Internet site along with an analysis.

Justice Department officials said no final decisions have made on any such legislation, and it could change substantially before it is completed. Spokeswoman Barbara Comstock acknowledged the department is "continually considering anti-terrorism measures and would be derelict if we were not doing so."

"The department's deliberations are always undertaken with the strongest commitment to our Constitution and civil liberties," she added.

The original Patriot Act, passed by Congress in the weeks following the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks, gave the government broad new anti-terrorism powers to use wiretaps, electronic and computer eavesdropping, searches and the authority to obtain a wide range of other information in it's investigations. It also broke down the traditional wall between FBI investigators and intelligence agents.

According to the Center for Public Integrity, the draft expansion of the Patriot Act would be called the Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003.

Among other things, it would prohibit disclosure of information regarding people detained as terrorist suspects and prevent the Environmental Protection Agency from distributing "worst-case scenario" information to the public about a nearby private company's use of chemicals.

In addition, the measure would create a DNA database of "suspected terrorists;" force suspects to prove why they should be released on bail, rather than have the prosecution prove why they should be held; and allow the deportation of U.S. citizens who become members of or help terrorist groups.

"It really is a broadening and a deepening of the government's powers," said Charles Lewis, executive director of the Center for Public Integrity.

Congressional aides said they had not been consulted by the Justice Department on the development of such a bill and department officials say it has not been transmitted to Capitol Hill. However, several aids (news - web sites) have said they considered it likely that the Bush administration would propose some changes this year.

Rep. John Conyers of Michigan, top Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee, said the legislation "turns the Bill of Rights completely on its head."

"This draft bill constitutes yet another egregious blow to our citizens' civil liberties," Conyers said. "Among other things, the Bush administration now wants to imprison suspects before they are tried and create DNA databases of lawful residents who have committed no crime."

--------------------------------------------

Damn that terrorist EPA for humilitating our patriot corporations and their patriot chemical toxins.

Innocent until proven guilty? Unpatriotic!

Thank you, John Ashcroft, for showing us how unpatriotic our Bill of Rights really are.

Melon
__________________

melon is offline  
Old 02-08-2003, 05:44 PM   #2
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,593
Local Time: 12:59 AM
What the Orange Alert is a cover for?
__________________

deep is offline  
Old 02-09-2003, 06:29 AM   #3
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
sulawesigirl4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Virginia
Posts: 7,416
Local Time: 03:59 AM
lovely.
__________________
"I can't change the world, but I can change the world in me." - Bono

sulawesigirl4 is offline  
Old 02-09-2003, 07:28 AM   #4
Blue Crack Addict
 
U2girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: slovenija
Posts: 21,032
Local Time: 09:59 AM
Oh goodie!

Quote:
Originally posted by melon
force suspects to prove why they should be released on bail, rather than have the prosecution prove why they should be held
What kind of crappy judicial practice is that?
U2girl is offline  
Old 02-09-2003, 09:43 AM   #5
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,885
Local Time: 03:59 AM
I need more information than this article to understand this stuff. Presonally, it sound like a load of crap to me.......so far.

peace
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 02-09-2003, 06:09 PM   #6
New Yorker
 
sharky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,637
Local Time: 04:59 AM
The Patriot Act is one of the most unpatriotic pieces of legislation ever passed by Congress.

I was in college in Missouri when Ashcroft was senator. He's a scary guy and that hasn't changed now that he's moved from the Heartland to the Capitol.
sharky is offline  
Old 02-09-2003, 08:51 PM   #7
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
*BOOMCHAA!*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: may I touch you?
Posts: 9,106
Local Time: 02:59 AM
Re: Potential "Patriot Act" Expansion

Quote:
Originally posted by melon
"Among other things, the Bush administration now wants to imprison suspects before they are tried and create DNA databases of lawful residents who have committed no crime."

this scares the hell out of me.
what's next?
*BOOMCHAA!* is offline  
Old 02-09-2003, 10:41 PM   #8
Bordering Purgatory
 
Flag Pole Pear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 794
Local Time: 02:59 AM
holy shit.

sounds like they theyre doing eveything they can to summon the new world order and the anti-christ.
__________________
you could have it all
my empire of dirt
i will let you down
i will make you hurt
Flag Pole Pear is offline  
Old 02-10-2003, 02:28 AM   #9
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 01:59 AM
i know.
its bad ..

so so bad.
i think we should have tantrums in the streets..



thats the ticket.

life in this country is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, so, baaaaaaadd.....
oh dear me.
me.
me.
meme.


me.
more
me.

ok a lil more me.

thank u-

DB9
diamond is offline  
Old 02-10-2003, 02:30 AM   #10
War Child
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 754
Local Time: 03:59 AM
Faction 2

Quote:
Originally posted by Flag Pole Pear
holy shit.`

sounds like they theyre doing eveything they can to summon the new world order and the anti-christ.
Patriot Act I and II (aptly named, and classic Orwellian "doublespeak") is entirely unconstitutional; however, it shouldn't come as too much of a surprise seeing as there is ample enough evidence to show that the organic Constitution Of the United States of America has long since been indefinitely suspended by the yearly "state of emergency" declaration. I wasn't before this January aware that Bush considers the Lockerbie Pan Am 103 incident of 1988 so much a threat as to declare an offical state of national emergency in 2003 because compensation hasn't been fully awarded to the victim's families.

We have long since lost common law. We are at best under maritime law; and soon to be martial law, once shit really starts to hit the fan.

For good measure, throw in a healthy dose of your "Executive Order" scam - a system originally and only intended as a sort of "internal memo" within the executive branch - a system currently being widely and abusively exploited outside its constitutional framework`.

Let us also not forget the Federal Reserve fraud.

I'm relieved to find that I, as an American citizen (and unfortunately legally contracted to the corporation of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA) am no longer sovereign, and have been declared a potential "enemy combatant" under this act; a catch-all term heineously nebulous.

Now comes recent news that I - being an anti-war activist - am, along with other New Yorkers, going to be denied my consitutional right for assembly and free speech, because `"terror threats won't allow it". I am also delighted that by so doing, I am committing TREASON. At least is the opinion of The Ministry of Truth - in other words our CFR-controlled current media establishment.

I can rest assured that since I make numberous references to the Consitution, am a true patriot, and a defender of common law and the Constitution, I can be classified by the FBI as a terrorist threat and lumped with other bottom-feeders such as neo-nazi's, the KKK, and Islamic extremists.

I guess I will also never be "elite" enough to partake of the wonderously occultic and satanic ceremonies performed at our fearless leaders' lush summer camp, Bohemian Grove. I never really liked the idea of worshiping a 50 foot owl (the god moloch), and sacraficing a human being in effigy to the great owl of bohemia.

But puppets are puppets, and though Faction 1 thinks, and does indeed have the current momentum, I am going to place my soon-to-be worthless fiat federal reserve notes on Faction 2.

They hold the ultimate trump card. The genius of Nikola Tesla can not, and will not be underestimated once scalar longitudinal electromagnetic technology becomes overt. We are beginning to see the dissent rising in europe, NATO forces preparing an unprecidented occupation of IRAQ, and the warning shot has already been fired over Faction 1's bow.
elfyx is offline  
Old 02-10-2003, 04:43 AM   #11
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,555
Local Time: 03:59 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
i know.
its bad ..

so so bad.
i think we should have tantrums in the streets..



thats the ticket.

life in this country is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, so, baaaaaaadd.....
oh dear me.
me.
me.
meme.


me.
more
me.

ok a lil more me.

thank u-

DB9
Always good to see an intelligent, well-thought out response addressing the issue at hand.
Diemen is offline  
Old 02-10-2003, 06:33 AM   #12
pax
ONE
love, blood, life
 
pax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Ewen's new American home
Posts: 11,412
Local Time: 04:59 AM
Normal

Quote:
Originally posted by Diemen


Always good to see an intelligent, well-thought out response addressing the issue at hand.
As usual, Diamond hits it right on the head.
__________________
and you hunger for the time
time to heal, desire, time


Join Amnesty.
pax is offline  
Old 02-10-2003, 09:19 AM   #13
New Yorker
 
sharky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,637
Local Time: 04:59 AM
diamond-- just because I think the U.S. is a great country to live in doesn't mean it can't be better. Americans are luckier than most in the world but our freedon -- one of the things that makes this country so great -- is being compromised by Ashcroft and his henchmen.
sharky is offline  
Old 02-10-2003, 10:20 AM   #14
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,885
Local Time: 03:59 AM
The original Patriot Act, does not worry me so much. I have read enough and pretty much agree with the provisions. THis second thing, however, is another story. I am trying to find more information on it. Anyone have other links for the new changes that are proposed?

Peace
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 02-10-2003, 12:03 PM   #15
Bordering Purgatory
 
Flag Pole Pear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 794
Local Time: 02:59 AM
ya, i would like to read more about it too.
__________________
you could have it all
my empire of dirt
i will let you down
i will make you hurt
Flag Pole Pear is offline  
Old 02-11-2003, 02:39 PM   #16
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,885
Local Time: 03:59 AM
I am not sure I like the sounds of this. If they followed the constitution with a declaration of war they would not need one piece of this.

Feds Look to Expand Electronic Surveillance

Confidential proposal calls for increased monitoring of private e-mail messages, Web surfing, and other online activities.

Kyle Stock, Medill News Service
Monday, February 10, 2003

WASHINGTON--A confidential document leaked by the Department of Justice Friday calls for laws to expand the government's right to read private e-mail messages and monitor Web surfing, and privacy rights advocates are crying foul.

Drafted by Attorney General John Ashcroft, the 120-page "Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003" would greatly inflate the powers afforded by the controversial Patriot Act, pushed through Congress after the September 11 terrorist attacks. The act gave the FBI and the Justice Department broad new authority to use wiretaps, electronic eavesdropping, and a number of other information-gathering techniques.


Advertisement




The proposal is under fire from privacy advocates and consumer groups. "I think that the average Web surfer is not going to notice a thing. That's what is so scary," says Lee Tien, senior staff attorney for the Electronic Frontier Foundation.

Under Surveillance
The draft proposes a number of measures to expand the scope of government surveillance. Specifically, it would:

Allow the government to monitor Web activities for 90 days, as opposed to 30 days.
Allow electronic surveillance and wire taps after Congress authorizes the use of military attacks or after a national emergency, as opposed to after a declaration of war.
Make the use of encryption to conceal a crime a felony offense, punishable by at least five years in prison.
Allow the government to obtain an individual's credit report without a subpoena.
Allow the government to treat individual suspects as foreign powers, a designation that expands federal surveillance rights.
Exempt the names of detained terrorist suspects from Freedom of Information Act requests.
Authorize the government to create a DNA database of suspected terrorists.
A "control sheet" circulated by the Office of Legislative Affairs shows that copies of the proposal were sent to Vice President Richard Cheney and Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert (R-Illinois) last month. However, the Department of Justice insists that the draft is not a formal proposal.

Department of Justice spokespersons did not return phone calls.

Under Fire
The proposal is drawing criticism from nonprofit groups focused on consumer and privacy rights.

"We're still reeling from the original USA Patriot Act's impact on civil liberties and now the government wants more," says Cindy Cohn, legal director at the Electronic Freedom Foundation.

"Where is the evidence that the law passed less than two years ago is insufficient? When will Congress draw the line and say, 'This much of our civil liberties you've taken under the guise of terrorism--you may have no more'?"

Critics note that the proposal's treatment of encryption could have serious implications regarding file sharing, an action that increasingly requires coded information. Those found to be sharing music or other entertainment illegally would be subject to an additional five years in prison.

"In this day and age that's going to cut a very broad sweep," says the EFF's Tien. "More and more of our communications over the Internet are de facto encrypted."

Chris Hoofnagle, deputy counsel at the Electronic Privacy Information Center, says the proposal is part of a concerted effort to subject computer users to "incredible liability."

"It's the idea that using a computer is a kind of aggravated offense, that should create longer sentences than another infraction...it's remarkable," Hoofnagle says.

Becoming Law
While the report has privacy advocates up in arms, many are skeptical about the proposal's chance of becoming law. A number of lawmakers from both parties have questioned the Justice Department's use of the Patriot Act provisions--challenges that could stand in the way of a new round of surveillance powers.

The federal investigative body is also fighting a Freedom of Information Act request by the American Civil Liberties Union and the Electronic Privacy Information Center. The groups want federal investigators to reveal how they have been using their expanded surveillance powers since the terrorist attacks.

"I think anyone who reads this bill and remembers what's happened in the past two years...they're not going to be as easily convinced," Tien says.
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 02-11-2003, 03:36 PM   #17
Bordering Purgatory
 
Flag Pole Pear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 794
Local Time: 02:59 AM
thanks dreadsox for the followup. ashcroft is a creep.
__________________
you could have it all
my empire of dirt
i will let you down
i will make you hurt
Flag Pole Pear is offline  
Old 02-11-2003, 04:35 PM   #18
New Yorker
 
sharky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,637
Local Time: 04:59 AM
wow. so the government can watch how many statements I make against Bush in 90 days instead of 30? One of the scariest things is the restrictions on the Freedom of Information Act. it would allow the government to cover up so much more stuff.
sharky is offline  
Old 02-12-2003, 02:05 AM   #19
War Child
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 754
Local Time: 03:59 AM
Unconstitutional!!!

We need to understand this Act, and its consequences fully, and NOW. I can't believe what I am seeing with my own eyes. The mere fact that this bill has been drafted secretly, and targeted towards Americans is terrorism itself.

Please, please, I challenge you all to read the following article, or any of the other well written and thoughtfully analyzed articles on this, and CAREFULLY consider, point by point what this thing, and this administration is trying to do to us! If you value your freedom, and way of life, as an American and Patriot - please lets do all we can to stop this. If this thing gets passed, there can no longer be any safe dissent on the subject - in fact such dissent is defined as terrorism in this law. And, woosh - you can be silently swept away, with no one ever knowing what happened to you, and tried in a secret court. I'm not kidding! Neither is this bill. Holy shit, what's to become of us!? This is the most serious threat to every American we have perhaps ever seen...

http://www.rense.com/general34/takeover.htm

Ahh fuck, I meant to post this not as a new thread, but under the existing one.. maybe a moderator can fix this?
elfyx is offline  
Old 02-12-2003, 08:11 AM   #20
pax
ONE
love, blood, life
 
pax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Ewen's new American home
Posts: 11,412
Local Time: 04:59 AM
This thread bump is dedicated to Elfyx of Jersey City, NJ.
__________________

__________________
and you hunger for the time
time to heal, desire, time


Join Amnesty.
pax is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com
×