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Old 03-20-2003, 10:12 PM   #1
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To protest or not to protest

That is the question.

Protests have been happening worldwide today in opposition to war. I know in Toronto there were 2, one led by students on my own campus.

The thing is, regardless of my stance on war/peace, I just don't really see the purpose behind protesting. Canada is not involved in the war. They aren't protesting Canada's involvement. Protesting on a Toronto street, not in front of the House of Commons, not in front of parliament, miles and miles away from our Prime Minister, I just don't see what wil come of it. It will not change George W. Bush's mind as to attack and it will not Hussein's mind as to surrender.

A protest for peace. While the idea sounds nice, it just feels futile and hopeless in times like these.
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Old 03-20-2003, 10:17 PM   #2
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since canada is not participating, what difference does it make if you are in toronto rather than ottawa? or did i entirely misread that?
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Old 03-20-2003, 10:20 PM   #3
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as long as you break stuff, keep police busy baby-sitting you and keep everyone from getting to their jobs then it's well worth it!
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Old 03-20-2003, 10:29 PM   #4
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I think world opinion has made them perhaps, rethink their shock and awe plan.

Because nobody wants this war
they are concerned about large numbers of casualties.


This was not the case in Afghanistan,
we had world support, so the bombs flew a lot freer.
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Old 03-20-2003, 10:34 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by kobayashi
since canada is not participating, what difference does it make if you are in toronto rather than ottawa? or did i entirely misread that?
I'm just trying to figure out the merits behind protesting. I guess I just assumed that if you were in Ottawa you might make more of a 'noise' being in the capital city and all (although, yes, since Canada is not participating, it really doesn't seem to do much either way).
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Old 03-20-2003, 10:41 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by The_Sweetest_Thing


I'm just trying to figure out the merits behind protesting. I guess I just assumed that if you were in Ottawa you might make more of a 'noise' being in the capital city and all (although, yes, since Canada is not participating, it really doesn't seem to do much either way).
i dont think there is much point for anyone. unless youre an alliance supporter that is.
either way, there is a protest on saturday afternoon at the eternal flame on the hill from what i know.
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Old 03-20-2003, 10:57 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
I think world opinion has made them perhaps, rethink their shock and awe plan.

Because nobody wants this war
they are concerned about large numbers of casualties.


This was not the case in Afghanistan,
we had world support, so the bombs flew a lot freer.
I agree Deep. I think that, along with lucky bit of intelligence they got about Saddam's whereabouts have changed how this is going down. The Bush administration knows they are in deep shit if there are a lot of casualties. And as protests grow louder, I think they know just how much is on the line.

What bothers me is that many of these "peace" protesters are fighting with police, fighting with eachother, throwing rocks, glass and metal, destroying property, etc... It's sad, and really makes their cause look not as legitimate.
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Old 03-20-2003, 11:15 PM   #8
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Re: To protest or not to protest

Quote:
Originally posted by The_Sweetest_Thing
The thing is, regardless of my stance on war/peace, I just don't really see the purpose behind protesting.

It will not change George W. Bush's mind as to attack and it will not Hussein's mind as to surrender.
I agree. There are plenty of protests going on here on my campus, but I don't really see the point. It's not going to change anyone's mind, and I need to go to class. I feel sort of bad about not joining the protests just because I'm lazy or would rather be doing something else, but I don't feel like campus protests make much of a difference.
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Old 03-21-2003, 01:07 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep


Because nobody wants this war
they are concerned about large numbers of casualties.

incorrect, it's always US (and apparently 35 other nations) policy to kill as many civilians as possible
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Old 03-21-2003, 03:13 AM   #10
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As long as you protest, don't do it the way some idiotic people have been doing in San Francisco. they've been marching down the streets, effectively blocking traffic and causing entire streets to be shut down, which of course caused huge delays in people going to and from work. Nevermind whether these people are pro-war or anti-war, the protesters are going to mess up their day anyway. They had originally hoped to block some of the major freeways, but thankfully they had some tiny shred of reason left in them.
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Old 03-21-2003, 03:18 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by womanfish


I agree Deep. I think that, along with lucky bit of intelligence they got about Saddam's whereabouts have changed how this is going down. The Bush administration knows they are in deep shit if there are a lot of casualties. And as protests grow louder, I think they know just how much is on the line.

What bothers me is that many of these "peace" protesters are fighting with police, fighting with eachother, throwing rocks, glass and metal, destroying property, etc... It's sad, and really makes their cause look not as legitimate.
I think that the possibility that Saddam is dead may have a little to do with how this war is going right now, and the fact that they are holding off on the "shock and awe", but I think that the admin was going to be very careful about civilians all along, anyway. Bush has said from the very beginning that he would handle the civilians with care. Why else would he spend all that time, effort and money dropping millions of leaflets? If Bush didn't give a crap about the civilians, Iraq would have been just a giant crater (sp?) by now. It doesn't have jack crap to do with the protestors, though. All that's accomplishing is what The Wanderer said..."break stuff, keep police busy baby-sitting you and keep everyone from getting to their jobs "
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Old 03-21-2003, 03:31 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest

Why else would he spend all that time, effort and money dropping millions of leaflets?
i dont know how much time effort and money went into the pamphlets...they're just pamphlets. walter lippman was doing it in the 30s.
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Old 03-21-2003, 05:01 AM   #13
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I would join a protest if there were any in this small village. As it is, some of my friends were in Geneva yesterday and happened to go by the UN (which was closed) and also saw protestors being lobbed tear gas bombs in front of the US embassy. wow, that really warms my heart.
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Old 03-21-2003, 05:30 AM   #14
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I'm going to a protest tomorrow in Gothenburg, I think. First of all, it's important to separate the "real" protesters from the troublemakers who only are in 'cause it gives them a chance to fight the police which they have declared their nr. 1 enemy. I can't speak for other countries, but this is how it is in sweden at a lot of protests. Being leftist has come to be popular among young people. These troublemakers are often kids of pretty wealthy families and this just gives them a chance to rebell against their parents. It's a pity and a shame that these people are in 'cause they draw attention from the issue itself. I'm so sick of them.
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Old 03-21-2003, 06:07 AM   #15
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That sounds like all the kids in their Levi's protesting in the anti globalisation marches, U2FReAK, who probably eat McDonalds, drink Coke and no doubt have some kind of MS software on their computers.
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Old 03-21-2003, 10:41 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
That sounds like all the kids in their Levi's protesting in the anti globalisation marches, U2FReAK, who probably eat McDonalds, drink Coke and no doubt have some kind of MS software on their computers.
I think this statement helps us understand or help us questions what may be happening on our streets. It may sound simplistic, but when someone is chanting "No War" (which sounds like a perfectly reasonable statement), no one asks "what do you mean by No War"?

Is it all about loss of innocent life? No.

As I mentioned before, people die from preventable causes every day in every country. There are many things that could be done to lower the loss of life in this world. Are there mass protests outside tobacco companies? No. Do we demand that automobiles be unable to travel over 30 mph? No. Dare I ask, do the same protestors decry the death of unborn children? Is this really about loss of human life?

Is it about respecting the sovereignty of Iraq? Probably not. Not many Saddam supporters around.

Is it about the power of the US President? Maybe. Protesting is self-empowerment.

What is really driving these protests?
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Old 03-21-2003, 11:40 AM   #17
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War Protest.

Let me just state, I believe that this war is something that had to be done. I hope it is done as quickly as possible with as little loss of life as possible.


Now that everyone knows where I stand on the war let me say that I get the feeling that the people protesting in America are doing so for the wrong reason.

I have nothing to back this up with other than a feeling and an opinion. I do not get the feeling that the majority of these people give one red cent about peace. I dont think they really care about the people of Iraq. I dont think they care about the deaths that will be caused by this war.

I think that they care about how people view them. They are afraid of the rest of the world judging them and finding them guilty of being uncivilized, uncompassionate and worst of all unhip.

Like I said, this might be way off base but it is just the way I percieve the protesters of America. The rest of the world have other reasons to protest and since I dont live in the rest of the world I will make no comment on them.

Gods Speed to Our Troops and Gods grace to all.
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Old 03-21-2003, 11:53 AM   #18
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Don't feel bad about thousands of peaceniks making idiots of themselves in a country of over 250 MILLION. From the Poll Numbers of Support, Apparently No American cares about such a small minority protest.. I hope they get rained on.

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Old 03-21-2003, 11:55 AM   #19
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What I believe is really driving them is that they started small, gained popularity and now it really is the popular thing to do, as "high school" as that sounds.

But speaking of high school, I remember being in high school during the first Golf War and students doing a "walk out". Well, I would estimate probably 30-40 percent of the students were sincere in their belief and what the demonstration was about. The others were just out to get out of class, get some attention, and really had no stance on the subject.

I see the same mentality on the streets now. People running around acting like fools, while a smaller group protests in a peaceful way.

I am glad that there are protests out there and I believe that many are sincere. But there message is starting to get lost with all the fighting and vandalism.
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Old 03-21-2003, 11:58 AM   #20
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Re: War Protest.

Quote:
Originally posted by czardog1


I have nothing to back this up with other than a feeling and an opinion. I do not get the feeling that the majority of these people give one red cent about peace. I dont think they really care about the people of Iraq. I dont think they care about the deaths that will be caused by this war.


I think you're wrong.
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