MERGED-->The Pope insults Islam + Turkish official compares Pope...

[Justin24]

He quoted what the christian emperor of Byzantine said about some of Mohhamds perspectives. Do you believe Mohhamed was a man of Peace?

 

[BVS]

I am judging 1% for the evil acts. The other 21% have done nothing to stop that 1 %.

Does your own silence on the subject make you evil and inhumane?
Or is just Muslim silence that makes one evil.

 

[Justin24]

I never said the other 21% are evil only the 1% which there are 1 % in everything in life that fucks it up for the rest. I don't feel I am evil. I am a very caring person.

 

[BVS]

He quoted what the christian emperor of Byzantine said about some of Mohhamds perspectives. Do you believe Mohhamed was a man of Peace?

No, it wasn't something he said about some of Mohhamed's perspectives, he said

prophet Mohammed had brought "things only evil and inhuman".

ONLY evil and inhuman.

I never met Mohhamed.

 

[Justin24]

By citing an obscure medieval text that characterizes some of the teachings of Islam’s founder as “evil and inhuman,” Benedict inflamed Muslim passions and aggravated fears of a new outbreak of anti-Western protests.

some of the teachings of Islam’s founder as “evil and inhuman,”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14846353/

 

[BVS]

I never said the other 21% are evil only the 1% which there are 1 % in everything in life that fucks it up for the rest. I don't feel I am evil. I am a very caring person.

You said the Pope spoke the truth. The Pope quoted someone who said Mohammed brought only things evil and inhuman, well Mohammed brought the Muslim religion.

So how are you not saying all Muslims are evil?

 

[BVS]

some of the teachings of Islam’s founder as “evil and inhuman,”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14846353/

So now the quote changed?

Sounds like someone's backpedaling...

 

[Justin24]

Cause only 1 % is. 1 % of Catholosism is evil, etc.. etc... and he said "some" and that some is being practiced by 1 % of evil in the islamic religion who have there own version.

 

[Justin24]

That quoted you just quoted me on was from the msnbc site.

 

[TranceEnding]

How would the Chrisitan community react if an Imam said such a thing?? We would probably brush it off. Can someone explain to me why they have to create such a hoopla?

See, part of the problem is that we in the west are constantly bombarded with pictures and footage of people going mental in the streets, burning stuff. I'm not saying it's not true and doesn't happen, but the media is part of the machine, frightening people.

I wonder how different it would be if we were also contantly shown (mostly christian) soldiers bombing places and seeing civilians murdered and dead children??

There is no balance or equality in this world ... it's hard to co-exist without it.

 

[menelaos]

These are the facts...

Pope is planning to make a visit to Turkey in November...The important thing about this visit is that it will be made under the invitation of the Eastern Orthdox Patriarch, this is something that not many people outside Greece or Turkey know...Among the other contacts, he will meet the Eastern Orthdox Patriarch (considering to be equal to the Pope) the Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I...The Turks don't won't to recognize the "ecumenicatility" (I didn't find any other word, so I used this) of the Patriarch, because if the recognize it, they will have a Greek Orthdox "Vatican City" right inside a Muslim nation...So they put whatever obstacles they can to try to cancel the visit...This is pretty obvious...
Turks usually use this kind of tricks...One good example is that:
During the winning ceremony of the turkish F1 Grand Prix, they used the "primeminister" of the invaded and occupied northern Cyprus to present the winner's prize... -The state they ''created" there is called Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus- is a de facto break-away state whose statehood is recognized only by Turkey, all other Member States of the UN recognizing the sovereignty of the Republic of Cyprus over the area it claims to administer.This state has no borders, but a green line wich is protected by the UN peace force...So they tried to bring this state to the national community attention...
Unfortunately this drug the attention of FIA and it's likely to ban the Grand Prix of Turkey for a year...

As for the comments Pope made, he was reading a Byzantine's Emperor quote in a university speech...This Emperor was surrounded by Turks for many many years...I think that he souldn't have read such comments, due to his position in the world...Although, some took the chance and overeacted for their own personal reasons...
Peace...

 

[Macfistowannabe]

"As he was setting out on a journey, a man ran up, knelt down before Him, and asked Him, 'Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?' Jesus answered him, 'Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone. You know the commandments: 'You shall not kill; you shall not commit adultery; you shall not steal; you shall not bear false witness; you shall not defraud; honor your father and your mother.'' He replied and said to him, 'Teacher, all of these I have observed from my youth.' Jesus, looking at him, loved him and said to him, 'You are lacking in one thing. Go, sell what you have, and give to (the) poor and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me.' At that statement his face fell, and he went away sad, for he had many possessions." - Mark 10:17-22

No, I think it's better off being called "The Bible."

Melon

Jesus gave this man a choice. Whether it's sugar-coated socialism or flat-out communism, it's an overpowering force of bureaucracy that took everything you worked hard for with the government throwing your behind bars if you didn't like it.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

All the more ironic, considering that with all our vernacular Bibles, most people still rely on their ministers to tell them what the Bible says. As much as things change, they stay the same.

Melon

People have always relied on spiritual advisors from the very beginning of mankind. We can take Ancient Greece or Ancient Rome, or any pagan civilization and apply that same principle. There's a reason they went to theological seminary in the first place. It's the way they use their power that could be for better or worse.

But the Bible is out there to expose how the religious zealots lied their way into The Crusades, and other pre-Reformation fallacies, due to corrupt leadership.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Just want to say that most of the Muslims that I know socially and at work are decent people. Just in case someone wants to take my comments out of context.

Most of them I know are not bad people either.

Although I have run into one in my personal life that suggested I should beat my mother for picking me up late after a sporting event.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

The opposite of Marxism would be pure individual self-interest, does that match God.

The opposite of Marxism is free will.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

And I never said it was. However, passages like these are not fitting for "The Anti-Communist Manifesto."

Melon

Only if you believe that a book about entitled "The Anti-Communist Manifesto" would be about corporate socialism and spreading religion by the sword rather than free will.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

As far as I can see the only way this kind of shit stopping is for the entire Islamic faith to grow out of it's shell because it's more extreme than the conservative Christian right in this country as I see it. As far as I can tell you don't see the Conservative Christian Right Threatening to kill, burn effigies and call for a jihad.


I meant to post this here. But it fits well in that other thread.

Whenever someone says something bad about the Pope, he offers his forgiveness. Whenever a public figure says anything bad about Islam, we see death and destruction.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Do you think your a good Moral person?

I don't think anyone would seriously answer "no" to this question.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

You'll never see COEXIST with your perspective.

Should we "coexist" with Osama bin Laden? Is he going to heaven just because he believes his intentions are good?

 

[melon]

Jesus gave this man a choice. Whether it's sugar-coated socialism or flat-out communism, it's an overpowering force of bureaucracy that took everything you worked hard for with the government throwing your behind bars if you didn't like it.

You're arguing apples and oranges here. The Bible makes no pronouncement on the ideal form of government, and if you are looking for even the slightest form, I guess you could say that Jesus supported despotism:

"They watched him closely and sent agents pretending to be righteous who were to trap him in speech, in order to hand him over to the authority and power of the governor. They posed this question to him, 'Teacher, we know that what you say and teach is correct, and you show no partiality, but teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. Is it lawful for us to pay tribute to Caesar or not?' Recognizing their craftiness he said to them, 'Show me a denarius; whose image and name does it bear?' They replied, 'Caesar's.' So he said to them, 'Then repay to Caesar what belongs to Caesar and to God what belongs to God.'" - Luke 20:20-25

The Roman Empire was only remotely kind to those they deemed "Roman citizens," and there were plenty of slaves, not to mention that this same empire killed Christians for the following 300 years.

And yet, Jesus still refused to condemn the Roman Empire.

I'm not saying that we have to be complacent and support a terrible government in light of this passage. I'm saying that it was Jesus' intention to focus on spiritual matters, not worldly, political matters; and to call it "The Anti-Communist Manifesto" would be blasphemous, as I see it.

Melon

 

[A_Wanderer]

I'm not saying that we have to be complacent and support a terrible government in light of this passage.

But there is a history of terrible governments doing that. In fairness Marx was on the money about belief [/i]"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people."[/i]

 

[melon]

People have always relied on spiritual advisors from the very beginning of mankind. We can take Ancient Greece or Ancient Rome, or any pagan civilization and apply that same principle. There's a reason they went to theological seminary in the first place. It's the way they use their power that could be for better or worse.

But the Bible is out there to expose how the religious zealots lied their way into The Crusades, and other pre-Reformation fallacies, due to corrupt leadership.

I think there's still plenty religious zealots out there lying their way to power, and there's plenty of the faithful out there who take what their minister says without questioning. There's a lot of potential for abuse out there, much in the same way as it was abused in the Middle Ages.

Melon

 

[melon]

The opposite of Marxism is free will.

Again, apples and oranges. The diametric opposite of Marxism is laissez-faire capitalism, which is no more inherently moral than Marxism, if you look at the damage it wreaked in the late 19th century. The advent of regulation in the first half of the 20th century is the only thing that tempered its abuses.

China can be called more capitalist than Marxist these days, looking at its more recent economic policies, but it's as "totalitarian" as it gets. There is no "free will." As such, the opposite of "free will" is totalitarianism, which can be under the guise of capitalism or communism--or even fascism, which has nothing to do with Marxism whatsoever.

Melon

 

[A_Wanderer]

The nature of the state is a product of it's economic system; China is in flux today; attributing the horrors of statism today to newfound economic liberties is not as convincing as the entrenched mentality of decades of hard communist rule.

 

[toscano]

No, it wasn't something he said about some of Mohhamed's perspectives, he said

ONLY evil and inhuman.

I never met Mohhamed.

Did you meet Gzndhi ? Martin Luther King ? Hitler ?

 

[toscano]

Good article from the Telegraph

"The truth is that barbaric attacks happen weekly. No wonder that Benedict favours an urgent dialogue with Muslims on the subject of religious violence, rather than the usual touchy-feely exchange of compliments.

Well, he has started a dialogue now, albeit not quite in the way that he intended. And it is essential that it continue. A self-abasing apology from the Pope would have postponed that discussion yet again.

We suspect that Western public opinion is not displeased that Benedict has said the unsayable. Now it is time for other churchmen to tell their Muslim counterparts that, in addition to dishing out criticism, they must learn how to take it."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/...OAVCBQUIV0?xml=/opinion/2006/09/18/dl1801.xml

 

[toscano]

Watching Soccer = Religious Extremism

http://asia.news.yahoo.com/060917/3/2q1dt.html

Somalis have welcomed the Islamists' pacification of their capital since they took it over in June, but they are increasingly unhappy at signs of religious extremism such as closing down public viewing of films and sport.

 

[toscano]

Step in the right direction

http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma...muslims_from_israel_bring_fresh_views_to_hub/

"it is time for Muslims to quit blaming others and examine their own responsibility for the troubles of Islamic civilization; time for Arab Israelis to call themselves Israelis, not Palestinians; and, above all, time for women to have full equality with men in the Muslim world"

 

[AEON]

I wonder how different it would be if we were also contantly shown (mostly christian) soldiers bombing places and seeing civilians murdered and dead children??

Ironically, almost all of the killing of women and children in Iraq is from Muslims - and if the US soldiers left, it would be even worse.

In addition, all of the bodies that are showing up in Baghdad show signs of being bound and tortured by power drills before they were executed.

Comparing US soldiers to this kind of evil clearly shows that you really know little about the US military - and even less about the enemy.

 

[AEON]

But there is a history of terrible governments doing that. In fairness Marx was on the money about belief [/i]"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people."[/i]

I am a firm believer that all ideas come from one of two sources: God or "the World" (i.e. Satan - laugh if you must, but this is what I believe and this is what the Bible teaches...and most importantly, it makes perfect sense). I try to place every idea into one of these two camps. It doesn't work all of the time, but it certainly does work much of the time.

It is easy for me to see where this laughable quote lands. If the Russian Revolution had never happened, Marx would’ve been long forgotten.

No we must wait another 50 or so years until he's forgotten.

Wanderer, I do agree with many of your posts. You seem like an intelligent and well-informed young man. However, your defense of socialism/communism seems a bit confusing to me. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you. (I hope so)